Bunkhouse Comparisons and Picking a New (used?) One

[FrugalFamily]

As I push 40 years old, with a wife and four kids, ranging from 17 down to 10 years and never having owned any of the "toys" other folks my age seem to accumulate, we've decided to take an RV plunge to squeeze some more memories in before the kids start heading off to college. With that in mind, we are shopping seriously for our first (and hopefully for the forseeable future, last) RV that will get us through the kids and at least start us off with grandkids, and would love some helpful advice from this clearly knowledgeable group.

With a stay at home mom and me working two full-time equivalent jobs as a teacher and part-time college instructor, we aren't flush with cash, so a 20,000 dollar limit is about what we can afford, even with financing. We might squeak higher if it was a brand new trailer, but not by much.

Our TV will be our venerable, but well maintained 2004 Suburban halfton, with factory tow package, rated at 7600 lbs tow capacity or 13000 combined weight, as per the dealership (but remember, we're adding myself, wife, and four kids so we're at 900 lbs right there).

Our "perfect" trailer would have quad bunks and a queen for us so we don't have to be making beds out all the time, outside access to at least one of the bunks for storage of larger items on the road, couch and dinette (so we could break them down if the kids brought a friend), and a decent amount of interior storage for jackets and what-not.

My wife was at first intrigued by some friends' 2004 Keystone Outback with the queen rear slide and quad bunks in the front, but for six of us, without a side slide, it seemed crowded and likely to be claustrophobic plus it lacked quite enough storage (the kids are all girls, so they just cannot seem to camp like I did - wearing the same clothes for days on end). I also had concerns over the stability of the manual bed slide - I'm about 240 lbs, and my wife 160.

This weekend, we found a "dream" trailer in a 2007 Rockwood with tons of storage, and this basic floorplan:


We just could not however come to a price agreement with the dealership that would get it to our 20000 pricepoint (23500 was their "best" with taxes and a weight distribution system and their 850 dollar "prep fee") or an acceptable interest rate (9 percent is what they offered!)and needed to walk away.

Another dealer offered a 2014 Wildwood quad bunk unit for 19,000 brand new, but my wife felt (and I agreed) that it just didn't offer enough interior storage - even under the dinette or bed or anything:



Any suggestions on something that would be a middle ground between the Outback and the Rockwood? Or should we have taken the Rockwood - it just struck me a a tad overpriced given that their best initial price offer came down from 20000 to 19250 and they wouldn't budge further, then with the taxes, license, and fees it went up to the 23000+ mark. I balked at that for a seven year old unit given that we had been offered a brand new Wildwood that same day elsewhere for LESS than they were willing to go on the Rockwood.

Thanks for any insights!

[md2lgyk]

If I were you, I'd stick with used units. You'll likely find out, as we did, that the kids will soon tire of camping with the old folks, or have other things they'd rather be doing. In our case, it was the grandkids - some didn't want to go with us at all, and to a kid the rest got tired of it as they turned 16 or so. Trust me, unless you want the bunkhouse as extra storage, you'll get tired of towing around 8 feet of trailer you never use. Even though it was just three years old, we sold our 29-ft bunkhouse model (actually for more than we paid for it new at a show) and bought a 24-ft Jayco. Couldn't be happier with it. On the rare (very rare) occasions one or more grandkids go camping with us, they prefer to pitch a tent next to the trailer.

[WoodGlue]

Get yourself a nice Fastway e2 hitch. It's a WD + anti sway.

WoodGlue

[FrugalFamily]

First, thanks again to everyone who's been so helpful.

We are looking at the option of moving to a 3/4 ton Burban since that will open us up for cheaper, albeit a little heavier, trailers that might be a wash or near-wash on price.

There is big RV show in nearby (90 minutes) Sacramento this weekend that we scouted at the various dealers last weekend. Here are some things we've seen I'd love to hear some ideas about:

1) 2013 Jayco 28 bunkhouse with a slide for 19000, brand new with all power options, and an 8 cu foot Norcold fridge - not seen a fridge that large on ANYTHING else so far. I REALLY like the upgrades in this unit and its price,as well as the two year warranty, but it is a double-single bunk and the tongue weight is 690. Dry weight with options is 5600.

2) 2008 Tango for 15000. Also a double-single, well-maintained except for some delam right around the access hatch for the water heater (two bubbles, each the size of your hand). Its tongue weight is 670 with a dry weight of 5760, as per the sticker.

3) 2014 Bullet QBS quad bunk on "sale" for the show at 24,500 with 5620 dry weight and 590 hitch weight. This one is the best layout, but also the priciest, and I'm not "sold" on the durability of Keystone products with regard to delaminating.

The sales folks have been telling me to ignore the hitch weight effectively since the WD hitch will offset some back to the trailer as opposed to the TV, meaning that my guesstimate of 650 left of cargo capacity in the TV (7000 rated from GM, minus 5350 curb, minus 1000 pounds of passengers)is too conservative.

Thoughts on any of these three options (aside from the obvious - upgrade the TV NOW and I can take any of the three). I'm especially interested in the WD hitch issue - I read dozens of pages here on the forums about WD hitches and despite being a pretty smart guy, it just gave me a headache. I guess that's why my graduate degree isn't in math.

[zackyboy3rs]

We have a 2010 Jayco 29L which is the same floorplan that you like. GVWR is 7500 & 5740 dry.

[anaro]

The zinger is too heavy for you. The quad bunk is sound 6700 lbs dry. The lightest crossroads quad bunk is the slingshot and it is 5600 dry which will mean at least 7000 lbs loaded. Our zinger weighed 5700 lbs on the cat scale the day we took it home and hadn't put anything in it. A fe months later a repeat weighing showed our zinger to be 7000 lbs loaded. That is for a family of 3. You might want to consider a hybrid trailer. A light weight hard side option for you might be something like this kz

[michigansandzil]

9% interest is outrageous!!

We bought a brand new unit, financed 19K and our interest is about 4%.

Shop around at different banks to see what rate they will give you. It makes a huge difference with the payment.

[dpatt67]

Anaro has a lot of good points. I'm afraid with your tow vehicle you may be in for a smaller trailer than you want. I've had that "tail wagging the dog" experience quite a few times myself and its not much fun. I agree with the post about maybe upgrading to a 3/4 ton Burb and maybe getting a 15k trailer. Truly the wholesale route is a great way to go. I just got a Crossroads Zinger with several options for 20200 out the door and i'm traveling 800 miles to get it. It sounds like youre in a similar situation to mine in that no local dealers either can/will sell one at a good price. Good luck

[whattoget]

i had a similar post about 5 years ago. wife, 4 kids and a dog. ended up with a 2008 crossroads zinger with quad bunks. great trailer / pack and play for outside storage and it pulled fine. check them out but yes, check your towing capacity. i used the mrs. burb for 2 years before I bought a bigger truck to pull it. the transmission temp would go over 220 so no ac, windows down, you know the drill. anyways - take a peak at crossroads zinger... the pricing was under 20k new.

[anaro]

Couple things. First, is your burb set up to tow with a transmission cooler and brake controller? You want a good proportional brake controller like prodigy P2 or p3. do not get a time delay brake controller. You will need a good weight distribution hitch with integrated sway control like Reese dual cam or equal-i-zer or even better (and more expensive) Hensley arrow.

Now lets look at what you can really tow. The statement my burb can tow 7600 lbs really doesn't mean anything. That number will be decreased by several factors. lets look at how to arrive at the correct numbers for you.

Load your burb up with all passengers, pets and gear you will have in it when towing and go weigh it (catscale with a full tank of fuel. When you weigh it, put the front axle on scale pad 1 and the rear axle on scale pad 2. (bring something long like a broom handle or long ice scraper as the button to push for weighing sits high for truckers). You will get a ticket that gives you 3 weights (front axle, rear axle, total vehicle weight).

Take the total vehicle weight and subtract it from the vehicles gcwr (the most both burb and trailer can weigh together) to get your adjusted towing capacity. Now take your total vehicle weight from the scale and subtract it from the vehicle gvwr (the most the burb can weigh) to get your available payload. The payload is what weight you can still add on or in a vehicle. Your trailers tongue weight sits on the vehicle and therefor gets added into the payload numbers so the tongue weight must be less than the available payload.

Now looking at the trailer there are dry weights and gvwr to look at. The dry or unloaded weight is a number you will never tow. The number published on a website or in a brochure doesn't even include the propane or battery weight. Then you have to add in your items to the weight. Believe it or not things add up really quickly (dishes, pots, pans, clothes, toiletries, camping chairs, grill, tools, wheel chocks, and the list goes on.). Most people tend to add 1000-1500 lbs to a trailer (some more, some less). You don't know how much your family of four will add so calculating using the trailer gvwr is wiser for you. The tongue weight listed in the brochures is also a dry or unloaded weight. As you add gear to a trailer in front of its axles it adds weight to the tongue. Unfortunately you can't just put all the gear in the rear of the trailer as this will off load the tongue weight and cause a sway condition. So loading a trailer is about balancing things. Ideally the loaded tongue weight will end up being 13-15% of the loaded trailer weight. Again here do a calculation using gvwr for you. So a trailer with a 7000 lb gvwr could have a tongue weight of 900-1050 lbs. Your burb probably does not have that kind of payload. The closer you get to a vehicles limits the more uncomfortable and unstable a towing experience gets. Having been there, I can tell you white knuckle experiences are exhausting and scary. It sounds like you are on a budget that wouldn't be able to handle upgrading the tow vehicle after the purchase so paying close attention to capabilities before hand is imperative.

[trsky]

I have a 2007 suburban 5.3l and towed a 2008 Passport 29BH which is the same floor plan as those you have listed with a dry weight of 5000lb. I towed that trailer for 3 years and have been towing my current KZ 265KS at 5100lb dry for the last 3 years and have had no issues. I keep it at 60mph on the back roads and 65mph on the interstates and no problems over the hills in KY & TN. You will bog down on the big hills but that should be expected. If you have the correct WD hitch and don't push it too hard you should be OK with a 5000lb TT. That's my experience.

[APT]

FrugalFamily wrote:
Loaded to go, I figure that would come in at about 6500, plus another 900-1000 for the family and miscellaneous gear in the 'Burban, and we're in for 74-7500 lbs. With a weight distribution hitch, does that sound "do-able" with enough of a safety margin?

Not really. You might be 500-1000 pounds over the receiver rating and payload. 6500 pounds loaded RV means 750-900 pounds of TW. I doubt your Suburban has 1800 pounds of payload for example (900 for TW and 900 for family/gear). And that is why larger families, RVing, and half tons don't mix well.

Start at a scale and weigh the truck with family on board. Find out exactly how much payload you have. GVWR - scaled weight is how much left for trailer TW.

FWIW, 3/4 and 1-ton passenger vans are much cheaper than SUVs of similar capability.

[JiminDenver]

A few things

This is the end of summer and the deals should be there as peoples interest in summer toys wanes. The dealers here drop their prices so the trailers don't sit on the lot all winter.

We bought new in August of 2011 and the prices dropped some each week. When they sold out of the more popular 21 ft we liked, they dropped the price on a 25 ft to even less. They went down another $500, got us 4.5% at a credit union and had the rig ready to go 3 days later as part of the deal.
The Wholesalers did offer a lower price up front and we would have saved some even after delivery but once you compare their 7,99% 12 year loan vs the 4.5% 5 year loan we got, we could buy another trailer with the difference.

If you are going to buy used, do it right and get on craigslist, find a RV trader or the want ads and buy from a private party. It takes more effort than roaming around a lot with the kids but you will get a much better deal. The dealer has to get a profit out of his and the less you know the better. (often I see the WDH going with a used rig)

Find a trailer you like, it's time for the teach to do his homework. Type in any year, make and model to your search and you will find everything from the specs, praises and complaints, selling value, etc. Brushing up on the basic systems so you can test them when you look would be good too.

I understand what you are saying about slides, room and cabin fever. We don't have a slide and it has rained almost every afternoon this year while we camped. At first we thought a slide would help but honestly a few more feet isn't going to cut it. What does is having a distraction and being comfortable and I've never sat in a dinette that was. So when you find a rig you like, get everyone in it and close it up for a hour or so and just sit there. After that realize that there will be whole days that it will rain.

With a big family and a limited vehicle capacity, I wouldn't put anything but them in the truck. 100 pounds in the back of the truck comes directly off of the payload, rear axle and reduces how much tongue weight you can have. Put it the trailer and the truck will never know. Pushing your truck to it's limits might be fine for normal driving but get into a emergency situation and it may be interesting to say the least.

Good luck with your search.

[WoodGlue]

You should be able to get at least a 4.99% APR on a used unit and tell any dealer who is trying to charge you a "prep" fee on a used trailer to, well - you know!

WoodGlue

[FrugalFamily]

Thanks to everyone who has posted with suggestions so far. As I continue to digest the forum posts about "really" how much we can consider towing with a 1500 Suburban, I'm starting to research LIGHTER quad bunk models for towability and safety, leading me into some (sadly, but expected) higher priced but much lighter models like the Jayco Whitehawk. There is a 2013 quad bunk model being sold locally for 23500 - brand new - that has a dry weight of just over 5000 lbs, knocking close to a 1000 lbs off of the Rockwood that everyone in the family loved. Loaded to go, I figure that would come in at about 6500, plus another 900-1000 for the family and miscellaneous gear in the 'Burban, and we're in for 74-7500 lbs. With a weight distribution hitch, does that sound "do-able" with enough of a safety margin?

Although the idea of the 2004 Outback (quad bunks) with the rear queen slide keeps coming back to mind since it was about 4500 labs, given that our goal is a full summer-long cross country trip to DC after our oldest graduates high school in June, I think we might be at each others' throats before it's over due to the cramped quarters, and no slide in the living space. I say this from experience, having traveled for three weeks in the western US with the family plus the inlaws a few summers ago in their no-slide 36 foot motor home. We might make it through the summer trip in the smaller Outback, but longer term, we're thinking of taking whatever rig we end up with to the coast for longer term summer vacations, since as a teacher I have all summer off, so some more space would be nice since it wouldn't just be for sleepy time.

Thoughts?