CAT Scale numbers (still a newbie to towing)

[MikeJulieGDImag]

I had my tow vehicle and trailer weighed today on a CAT scale today.
Steer Axle - 3220 lbs
Drive Axle - 4320 lbs
Trailer Axle - 6040 lbs

The UVW of the trailer is 6204 lbs but we do have a couple hundred lbs of stuff in it now. The GAWR for my 2013 Expedition EL are 3700 lbs for the front and 4250 lbs for the rear. Our WDH is a Blue Ox Sway Pro. I know the rear axle on the vehicle is overloaded and I believe out of balance from front to back which is probably why things felt 'off' when I was pulling the camper yesterday and today.

The question I have is am I correct to assume that reducing the amount of chain links on the WDH bars to tighten things up will shift weight off the rear axle of the vehicle to the front and to the trailer?

The dealer installed the hitch and recommended I hook it up at 9 links but I played around with it some and hooked it up at 8 and 7 links and noticed the rear of the expedition definitely came up some.

[MikeJulieGDImag]

lawrosa wrote:

It was more solid, didn't feel as bumpy when we hit any uneven spots in the road and when we got hit by wind instead of feeling squirmy and getting pushed I could feel the Expedition hold steady and the trailer almost 'snap back' in line. Thanks the info on needing to go back and get re-weighed with the different setups. wrote:

Next important step is to air up your tires to max inflation listed on the side wall.

Can you post what that max psi is and the lbs rating on the tire sidewall?

You are at your rear axle limits and that trucks capacity.

Max tire pressure is 44PSI which I already air up to when I'm hitched up and the lb rating is 2601. 'E' rated tires are coming in the near future.

[lawrosa]

For the record lawrosa, I gave the same advice as Mitch to the OP on another forum and we were 100% spot on. He needed more weight transferred via WDH to the front axle.

Might be a chance to cool your jets before "all speculation from your assumptions and can get people hurt or killed IMO".

Dont matter what advice you gave... Until the OP got actual weights it was all speculation period..

My jets are just fine. For you to reply back here to make sure you try to flame me, then it is you who seems hot under the collar...

Just my opinion is all...

[lawrosa]

It was more solid, didn't feel as bumpy when we hit any uneven spots in the road and when we got hit by wind instead of feeling squirmy and getting pushed I could feel the Expedition hold steady and the trailer almost 'snap back' in line. Thanks the info on needing to go back and get re-weighed with the different setups. wrote:

Next important step is to air up your tires to max inflation listed on the side wall.

Can you post what that max psi is and the lbs rating on the tire sidewall?

You are at your rear axle limits and that trucks capacity.

[RinconVTR]

lawrosa wrote:

MitchF150 wrote:
I'd be adjusting the WD hitch a bit more to move more up front..

#6000+ on the trailers axle weight alone means it's a pretty good size TT...

Figure it's got around a #1000 tongue weight, so that's around a #7000 loaded TT..

Probably far from the trucks "tow rating", but that just goes to show you that the "tow rating" don't always equal what you want to tow.... 😉

Good luck!

Mitch

Bad advice.

How do you know he needs to add more weight up front?

He may be at the original front end weight already and offering such advice will make his front too heavy and control/handling issues will be in play.

How do you figure he has 1000 lbs on the tongue?

Your answer is all speculation from your assumptions and can get people hurt or killed IMO..

As I stated he needs to weigh the truck at the scales with the 3 weights indicated in my post below..

OP unless you get the weight of the truck alone you will never know what your dealing with period..

For the record lawrosa, I gave the same advice as Mitch to the OP on another forum and we were 100% spot on. He needed more weight transferred via WDH to the front axle.

Might be a chance to cool your jets before "all speculation from your assumptions and can get people hurt or killed IMO".

[MikeJulieGDImag]

Hit the scales again on the way to our site yesterday to re-weight with adjustments and here's where I'm at:

Expedition By Itself
Steering Axle - 3380 lb
Drive Axle - 3600 lb

Expedition and Trailer (No WDH)
Steering Axle - 3020lb
Drive Axle - 4700 lb
Trailer Axle - 5960 lb

Expedition w/WDH (8 Chian Links from the bar)
Steering Axle - 3280 lb
Drive Axle - 4320 lb
Trailer Axle - 6080 lb

I decided since I was there I would give it one more go at 7 links
Expedition w/WDH (7 Chain Links from the bar)
Steering Axle - 3340 lb
Drive Axle - 4240 lb
Trailer Axle - 6100 lb

So at 7 links from the bar the steering axle is only 40 lbs different than the Expedition with no trailer hooked to it. Drove to our site 110 miles from the scales and I couldn't believe what a huge difference it was from last weekend. Much more comfortable drive to the point my wife as a passenger could tell it was better. It was more solid, didn't feel as bumpy when we hit any uneven spots in the road and when we got hit by wind instead of feeling squirmy and getting pushed I could feel the Expedition hold steady and the trailer almost 'snap back' in line. Thanks the info on needing to go back and get re-weighed with the different setups.

[MikeJulieGDImag]

lawrosa wrote:
A question is do you have the heavy duty tow package?

Not all EL's came with it..

See here. 6000 lb vs 8700-8900 towing.. big difference.

http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/13flrv&tt_expedition_oct9.pdf

And that trailers GVW comes in at 7500 lbs..

Just posting for reference...


https://www.granddesignrv.com/showroom/2017/travel-trailer/imagine/floorplans/2800bh

It has the HD tow package, I made sure of it before I bought the vehicle. The one we have has the 8700lb tow capacity because its the 4x4 EL.

[MikeJulieGDImag]

lawrosa wrote:

out of balance from front to back which is probably why things felt 'off' when I was pulling the camper yesterday and today.

Other then being over the rear axle rating what felt off?

Bounce?
Bottom out?

etc

It felt like my steering was off which led me to think back to everything I've read regarding the backend being pushed down to much causing weight to shift off the front resulting in loss of steering control. That's one of the reasons I decided to have everything weighed. Lesson learned in that I needed more numbers to tell the whole story

[MitchF150]

lawrosa wrote:

MitchF150 wrote:
Never mind.... Not worth it. 🙂 Please put me on your block list...

Nah... I dont block anybody.

yeah, I don't either... 😉 Fun to read all the posts...

[lawrosa]

A question is do you have the heavy duty tow package?

Not all EL's came with it..

See here. 6000 lb vs 8700-8900 towing.. big difference.

http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/13flrv&tt_expedition_oct9.pdf

And that trailers GVW comes in at 7500 lbs..

Just posting for reference...


https://www.granddesignrv.com/showroom/2017/travel-trailer/imagine/floorplans/2800bh

[lawrosa]

out of balance from front to back which is probably why things felt 'off' when I was pulling the camper yesterday and today.

Other then being over the rear axle rating what felt off?

Bounce?
Bottom out?

etc

[MikeJulieGDImag]

lawrosa wrote:

The dealer told us nine with the bar as the starting point so when I say 7 and 8 lengths of chain it is from the bar, not the end of the chain. When I go 7 from the bar is when I can see 3 chain links.

I think if you go 7 thats the best/max you can get and you need 3 chains showing min per manufacturer?

If so 1000 lb bars may help as stated. Maybe even 1200's

I had watched the video before we picked up the trailer. Heres a picture of when I picked it up on the lot. No pictures at 7 lengths right now but I do know when I had it at 7 the setup looked identical to what they show in the video with the 3 chain links showing.

[lawrosa]

The dealer told us nine with the bar as the starting point so when I say 7 and 8 lengths of chain it is from the bar, not the end of the chain. When I go 7 from the bar is when I can see 3 chain links.

I think if you go 7 thats the best/max you can get and you need 3 chains showing min per manufacturer?

If so 1000 lb bars may help as stated. Maybe even 1200's

[lawrosa]

We have 750# bars. From the manufacturer the tongue weight with the camper dry is 584lbs.

Should probably have 1000 lb bars. Just from my experience..

Are the bars somewhat parellel with the trailer frame when chained up? Take a few pics when you get a chance...

Ill research more info if I have time. Did you watch the vid?

[MikeJulieGDImag]

peoples1234 wrote:
Okay, and just to be clear. When you say 9 links, are you counting from the end? I was confused by your reference of 7 or 8 links being better.

With the Blue OX, you should be counting from the bitter end up 9 as a starting point (counting toward the bar).

At 9 links, there should be about 3 links visible from the shackle to the bar. Adding links to tighten the bars is perfectly fine as needed to level the trailer.

The dealer told us nine with the bar as the starting point so when I say 7 and 8 lengths of chain it is from the bar, not the end of the chain. When I go 7 from the bar is when I can see 3 chain links.

We have 750# bars. From the manufacturer the tongue weight with the camper dry is 584lbs.

[rbpru]

When I left the dealer, he mentioned that I would have to find the link that worked with the loaded TT. It took two more links for a level TT.

The WD hitch directions say to adjust for a level ride.

Also remember that the weight of your rig is going to very with the water, gray and black tank levels, food and other consumables, gas tank levels, propane level and the stuff hauled on each outing. You will find a couple of hundred pounds is about as close as you can estimate between trips.