Considering an HTT. Where do I start my research?

[ToddD]

(Those that also frequent the PUP forum will notice the cut and paste job I did. Turns out that instead of a PUP, we may be better suited to a HTT, so I'm starting a new thread here.)

The wife has admitted that if we could increase the level of comfort, she'd be willing to go camping more often. Our current set-up is a large tent with air mattresses. I'll admit, even I wake up stiff and sore.

So, we have the room to store a 20-25' foot long trailer on our property, and are budgeting $10-15k. AC and a porta-potty would be nice. Tow vehicle is a 1 ton truck. 3 season camping is our goal, nothing in the winter. We like being out in nature, and don't necessarily want to completely isolate ourselves inside when camping. We also have a 7 year old kid. I'm a big dude, 6' 5", 260lbs.

So: where do we start our research? There seems to be a lot of HTT manufacturers and models out there, and it's challenging, to say the least, wading through options.

Best brands? Must-have options?

Can y'all help a noobie out?

[rbq]

To answer your question about when the Roo's started using the arched roof it was about 2009. I have a 2010 233S Roo & it has the arched roof. It is a subtle arch not a dramatic one like some. We are previous popup owners (28 years) & still enjoy the tent bed ends. Other than an occasional noisy neighbor it can be fun at times to hear some of the night noises (coyotes howling, owls hooting, skunks or racoons rummmaging through garbage, the gentle pitter pat of rain falling.)

[PAThwacker]

I's start searching for a '14. Heated beds, curved roof, dual fantastic fans, black tank flush, and now a leftover since the '15s are out.

[KMP44]

ToddD wrote:
Ah, ok, I see the arch now. The one I looked at has it, too. Very subtle.


This unit was not at Media. Asking $17k on this, a new one would be $10k more. Trying to stick to our budget...

Not 100% sure on the '12's, but for '13, '14, '15 I dont' think there is any change to the curved roof. I'm 6'8", so I can tell pretty easily, and the curved roof in the Roo was big advantage to us (me).

The major change between the'12 and '13 was somewhere in there they went to the attached canvas on the bunks. Our 2013 was made in January 2013 and has them. We like that design.

As for looking at a new unit - there are some real advantages, and you should be able to get a 23SS for around $20-21K brand new (before tax) on the east coast. Still above budget - but the difference in a 1-2 year old unit and new one isn't that big.

[kvangil]

I agree on what others say about the smoked-in unit. Your best bet is to be patient and pass on that one. You can never completely get rid of the stale cigarette odor, and it's most apparent on a super-hot day... We once got rid of a used car after 3 months of ownership because the cigarette smell was unbearable for the wife, and lesson learned after that...At the first evidence of smoking, the deal is off, whether it be car, house, camper, and I don't care how "smoke-free" the seller claims it is. When in doubt, walk away...

[DiskDoctr]

The smoke will Never go away. At $6k, maybe you found a great deal and can find a way, but there are LOTS in the $12-20k range, and in near perfect condition.

Visiting a smokey place is one thing, but sleeping in it can be quite unpleasant for those of us sensitive to it.

For example, I can stand it when I need to. But later my sinuses will be the size of an elephant! Similar if sleeping in a "cleaned" smoking room.

You cannot use heat (steam) to clean canvas.

[ToddD]

Ah, ok, I see the arch now. The one I looked at has it, too. Very subtle.

The upholstery was in great condition, didn't see burns anywhere. But after sitting in it for 10 or so minutes, the cigarette smoke odor was very, very apparent.

This unit was not at Media. Asking $17k on this, a new one would be $10k more. Trying to stick to our budget...

[PAThwacker]

Don't settle on the smoked up unit. Properly has burns in the couch. The 2015 models are already on the lots. Used models are priced through the roof at Media camping center. I hope that's not where you are looking.

[PAThwacker]

Here is an alleged 2012 rear picture. It has a slight arch. The arch contains the HVAC ducted lines.




This one is a '13 slight arch.



This is the '14 arch more evident, I think the lights are lower, and has dual fantastic fans, and other noticeable model year updates.

[ToddD]

Ok. Wife and I checked out the 2012 23SS this evening and saw a lot of other models to get some perspective. Lots of models were out of the running simply because of ceiling height. The Roo has about 1.5" of clearance above my head, but I could not see any sort of arch to the ceiling. Did the arched ceiling start on a later model, or is it just very subtle and hard to see?

Overall, we could see ourselves in the 23SS. It was in nice shape, fairly optioned out.

One big issue: it reeked of cigarette smoke. We don't smoke.

What are my chances here of purging that stench? Am I looking at a re-upholstery, or a steam cleaning? How do I get the dealer to guarantee it is gone if I request they handle it? Hmmmm.

[bikendan]

ToddD wrote:
Is there any difference between the Forest River brands such as Roo and Shamrock? I see they have some of the same floorplans. Is one built to a higher standard than the other?
they are twin brands, which is common in the RV industry. no differences other than outside graphics and interior decor patterns. they share the exact same floorplans, not just some. they are built on the same exact assembly line. same options and features.

Does anybody know when the domed roofs started being used on the Forest River models?


Regarding end tents: if they were not broken in properly, as far as letting the seams swell and seal, can that still be done after the fact as a second owner? Leaky canvas will quickly sour the camping experience.
that's hard to say. you would hope that they got wet and then dried at some point, while being used by previous owners. i prefer to buy new over used for a number of reasons.

Is it best practice to cover the trailer when not in use? Are cover made for this, or do I just use a tarp?
that's up to each owner. in California, if you don't your decals will peel off and crack from the sun. DON'T use a tarp, they aren't breathable like RV covers and you'll get mold/mildew.

[PAThwacker]

All cool floorplans have long been retired. The 23IKSS Island Kitchen Double Slideout is the glampiest floorplan but......closes up as tight as a pup. No direct access unless operating slideouts and unable to store bulky items like bikes, gray tanks, coolers, or kayaks.

Coachmen makes a 25ft front queen and rear hybrid, radical.

North trail made a 23ft front hybrid rear bunkhouse with slideout dinette, bonus!


Competitor made a nonslide 21ft front hybrid and rear bunkhouse, downside front U dinette!

[ToddD]

Thanks, again, all.

More questions:

Is there any difference between the Forest River brands such as Roo and Shamrock? I see they have some of the same floorplans. Is one built to a higher standard than the other?

Does anybody know when the domed roofs started being used on the Forest River models?

Regarding end tents: if they were not broken in properly, as far as letting the seams swell and seal, can that still be done after the fact as a second owner? Leaky canvas will quickly sour the camping experience.

Is it best practice to cover the trailer when not in use? Are cover made for this, or do I just use a tarp?

[Campfire_Time]

PAThwacker wrote:
Major product enhancements in the last 6 or more years strictly relating to bunk doors improvements.
bunk closure changes from screw, latch, key, or other.
Continous seal upgrades,
Bunk door supports to cables
Non attached to attached tenting.
Need I continue?

These are small design improvements. Not growing pains. Every trailer, every year has some design improvements.

Pat, people get what you are trying to say. A lot of trailers don't work for you and your family. But you gotta keep in mind that what you consider negative is no big deal to others. That's why there are options. What works for you is not so good for me. My opinion, I've looked at your trailer, I wouldn't want it. It doesn't cut the mustard for my family. My experiences and expectations are different from yours. You clearly take a lot more junk with you on a trip than most people and have very different needs in a TV & trailer than I do.

I'm not dismissing your posts. I appreciate when people share their experience and opinions, negative or otherwise. But you seem to getting a bit dogmatic in that you're pointing out why you are right and the rest of us haven't a clue. Neither you nor any one else is right, and none of us are wrong either. That said don't get too worked up that some of us don't feel the same way you do.

[DiskDoctr]

toddD,

Looks like you are getting some very open and honest advice.

Another benefit over our PUP is the much larger awning with self-supporting arms that attach to sides of trailer. It also includes a solid door.

I don't know if anyone else still offers it, but our 2 bunk model substitutes a "garage" for the 3rd bunk location. It has pegboard storage about 18" or so deep and about 80-90% of the width and height of the trailer.

For us, it is why we sought this model. Most of our needs revolved around storage/equipment space, after the fridge, bathroom, ac, and microwave.

[KMP44]

ToddD wrote:
Thanks everyone. Going to visit a local place on Thursday that has a few different models in stock. They have some used Roo 23SS models and carry KZ brand new.

They have a 2012 23SS for around 17k, looks nice in pics.

I also see a 2014 23IKSS a few hundred miles away for about 1k more, which is a little confusing. Seems that model has a lot more going for it with dual slide outs and more storage? Wonder why so cheap.

So: how wet do side bunks get when it rains? Seems that is major shot people with TTs take at people with HTTs. Why buy a HTT over a TT?

If you have a chance to check out the IKSS, its worth a look. We started with a tent (one season) then a popup, and as we looked for a hybrid, when the wife walked walked into the IKSS, that was it. Prices on new trailers vary, and used trailer prices really vary.

If you want a "camping feel" but all the ammenities of an RV, a hybrid is a good choice. They are shorter and easier tow. The tradeoffs are a few extra minutes of setup, a little noisier, and higher potential for leaks. Leaks in the canvas are rare. Most of the issues are with the doors and seals on the doors. Then manufacturers keep improving the designs. And a common issue is getting the canvas pinched in the seal when closing, which will allow water in. But there are lots of happy owners without leaks. If you camp in a lot of RV parks where sites are very close, a hybrid may not be the best choice, but at state parks and other campgrounds where sites are a little more spread out, the tent ends are really nice.

We use our hybrid from spring through fall - with heat and AC its comfortable in any temperature as long as its above 30 degrees. It works well with full hookups, and its well suited to places with no hookups. It has enough interior space that a rainy day is no problem. No midnight walks to the bathroom is worth the price of the camper.

Good luck with your search!