Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[dfranks]

Dodge was the first to offer the torque management and the the intro to the fly by wire, you can't feel the truck defuel because it won't actually give you full throttle, untill you are at hwy speeds. Your 345HP is alot less than you think thanks to these 2 little gizmo, That's why I dumped it. No passage to manhood just stating the facts, I know the truth hurts but your special experiment is a joke.

I had a great weekend truck worked flawlessly. Got a chance to download my new towing file. Weather was in the high 80's, oh yeah almost forgot....passed some gassers goins up some steep grades (held my 55mph they couldn't) Met a guy who sells RV's out of Sask, has 350K on the odometer with his 05 Dodge 3500 cummins rower. Came home and bashed on you some... awesome weekend.

[Hannibal]

dfranks wrote:

Hannibal wrote:
Absolutely it's an experiment. It was from the beginning and it still is. So far the experiment is producing positive results. And my next experiment will likely be a 6.7L Cummins with the new 68RFE.
The 5.7L Hemi is not a big block. It's a small block. Just to add to the horror, it has 16 spark plugs. So far at 113k miles, it's the only part of the truck that's not starting to show the affects of miles of hard work both daily and towing for fun. I went to the link you posted. I guess approximately can mean give or take 150~ lbs. You need to dig further than the glamorized feed the hype page. Different pistons, connecting rods, cam, intake etc... If you knew your Cummins engines, you'd know the the '01.5 was not the mechanical P7100 pump of the 12v's and the '03 was the common rail as it is now. I was a member of TDR for a few years, collected issues 1-48 and decided to move on to a better place at DieselTruckResource.com. I'll go check out the TDR for the couple thousand members of the million mile club. The nice thing about it is, you can claim anything you want and there will always be a fan club eager to follow.:B

Link works fine. Must be the operator.:B

Either w continue to do your R&D Experiment ROFL. Pure nonsense to say the least.

Medium duty trucks, Semi's and heavy equipment including ships use diesel because it is a BETTER solution than gasoline power. (period)

Untill they start insatlling a Hemi gas engine in a cruise ship or oil tanker than I'll buy it.

BTW brain wave I am the EX owner of a 04 Hemi 1500. I averaged 16mpg HWY and 11 city. All this with exhaust, intake and superchips. Thanks the ever hunting torque management tranny that would defuel at the first hint of full throttle at take off. I dumped it at first chance that and thier great idea of MDS brainery, good luck getting that to work unless you were facing downhill with a tailwind.
While you were writing the results or your "experiment" I was out camping with my family in the rockies. After pulling my TT up grades of 6% and 8% and on the flats I averaged 16.2 mpg (imperial).

Stop bashing the diesel and prove that you don't dislike it or maybe you have a bit of "turbo" envy and I'll treat you accordingly. As for myself I have several gas powered vehicles in my possesion so the same could not be said for me, ( I just know where to use them, and towing isn't one of them.):-)

That's ok frank. I like variety. I like to try different things. You might read up a few posts and I said "again" that diesels are better for towing. Sorry to burst your fantasy but, cruise ships and tankers don't use your little automotive sized diesel either. Sorry for you that you spent so much on a 1/2 ton truck before you finally wised up and bought what you wanted. I don't regret any of my truck past or current. I don't have MDS and I've not heard of the Hemi de fueling on a full throttle launch. I've heard of the GM's doing that but not the Dodge. Mine de fuels for a split second when it shifts at full throttle but it's barely noticeable as full throttle launches are rare. Must be frustrating trying to maintain those fictitious mileage claims eh? For someone who had such a good weekend, you sure came back grumpy!
Not bashing the diesel. Just don't believe your numbers. Why would I have turbo envy? It's not a great accomplishment or rite of passage to manhood to own a diesel powered pickup truck. You simply pick one out, make a deal and sign the papers. Heck, even you bought one! I've owned six diesels and will no doubt own more. For now, the Hemi's doing a fantastic job! And don't bother. You don't have to treat me in any way. You're totally inconsequential to my happiness and well being.:B

[dfranks]

Hannibal wrote:
Absolutely it's an experiment. It was from the beginning and it still is. So far the experiment is producing positive results. And my next experiment will likely be a 6.7L Cummins with the new 68RFE.
The 5.7L Hemi is not a big block. It's a small block. Just to add to the horror, it has 16 spark plugs. So far at 113k miles, it's the only part of the truck that's not starting to show the affects of miles of hard work both daily and towing for fun. I went to the link you posted. I guess approximately can mean give or take 150~ lbs. You need to dig further than the glamorized feed the hype page. Different pistons, connecting rods, cam, intake etc... If you knew your Cummins engines, you'd know the the '01.5 was not the mechanical P7100 pump of the 12v's and the '03 was the common rail as it is now. I was a member of TDR for a few years, collected issues 1-48 and decided to move on to a better place at DieselTruckResource.com. I'll go check out the TDR for the couple thousand members of the million mile club. The nice thing about it is, you can claim anything you want and there will always be a fan club eager to follow.:B

Link works fine. Must be the operator.:B

Either w continue to do your R&D Experiment ROFL. Pure nonsense to say the least.

Medium duty trucks, Semi's and heavy equipment including ships use diesel because it is a BETTER solution than gasoline power. (period)

Untill they start insatlling a Hemi gas engine in a cruise ship or oil tanker than I'll buy it.

BTW brain wave I am the EX owner of a 04 Hemi 1500. I averaged 16mpg HWY and 11 city. All this with exhaust, intake and superchips. Thanks the ever hunting torque management tranny that would defuel at the first hint of full throttle at take off. I dumped it at first chance that and thier great idea of MDS brainery, good luck getting that to work unless you were facing downhill with a tailwind.
While you were writing the results or your "experiment" I was out camping with my family in the rockies. After pulling my TT up grades of 6% and 8% and on the flats I averaged 16.2 mpg (imperial).

Stop bashing the diesel and prove that you don't dislike it or maybe you have a bit of "turbo" envy and I'll treat you accordingly. As for myself I have several gas powered vehicles in my possesion so the same could not be said for me, ( I just know where to use them, and towing isn't one of them.):-)

[Rvndave]

Yes, amusing to see so many insist there is only one way to go.

[rsh_757]

Hannibal wrote:
. Or man powered rickshaw in the case of the halo adorning foreign offerings

LOL! Sometimes the comedy alone makes this forum worth reading.

[Jarlaxle]

That's how they run in MDT's...the 6.7 ISB-powered M2 I drove at work was spinning 2400 on the highway (295/75R22.5 tires, 5.86 gears, 2100-series Allison) and seemed perfectly happy to do so. The various 5.9-powered trucks & buses I've drive were all in the 2100-2600RPM range on the highway.

[Hannibal]

Almost forgot. Chrysler, during R&D, ran the 5.7L Hemi 300 hours at peak hp rpm under full load. Nothing melted or broke and upon teardown, it showed only normal wear. Far more brutal a test than anything I've done to it in the past 113k miles. Cummins also runs their engines at peak hp rpm full load for hundreds of hours. Rpm hurts nothing but cringe factor in those with rpm a phobia. My '98 12v 5spd 4.10 with it's 28.5" diameter tires ran 2500rpm at 70mph in top gear. The only thing it hurt for the 94k miles I had it was my ears. I wrote to Cummins to inquire about running against the governor most of it's life and if it would shorten the Cummins life. They replied that the wear would be negligible.

[Hannibal]

All fossil fuel burning internal combustion engines are old technology. The ability to spin it up to 19000rpm as in a Formula One car is one day going to be laughable. The internal combustion engine will become entirely extinct for practical purposes and will be a novelty like the horse and buggy. Or man powered rickshaw in the case of the halo adorning foreign offerings. At the moment, there appears to be no advantage of the 32 valve engine over my more nostalgic 16 valve pushrod engine. If Dodge would kindly put a real 5spd or 6spd auto behind the Hemi, it would really shine.:B

[rsh_757]

Tankerhank wrote:
what has antiques got to do with today? Unless you drive one.

Well, OK there Shankerspank. Maybe you should ask yourself that since you know, made the reference? Do you mean to say that after your weak attempt at ridiculing me with your greatness that you won't even back it up? I expected more from man with your level of integrity (well maybe not)

Then again, having you around is validation that Franklinman1999 is not the only one of his kind.

[Tankerhank]

what has antiques got to do with today? Unless you drive one.

[rsh_757]

Tankerhank wrote:
.... 32 valve "wild" design *LOL!!!!
4 valves per cylinder (Penta head) is a standard for the modern motor as it allows for efficent flow of air/fuel. "Modern motor" *G* it has been around for nye on 40 years, not as old a design as a pushrod motor but to each their own. Motorcycles use it as it allows the motor to sping upwards of 16,000 RPM without parts exploding!

For grunt nothing replaced cubes.

Well, it looks like this nuisance just isn't going to quit.

Hankertank, sadly, you probably really think you are witty. Quit embarassing yourself, someone you actually know might read this stuff.

Maybe you just don't get it "g"
My comment was pointing out that Chrysler made that HP out of a 5.7 without that technology and no other pickup could touch it in 2002 when it came out. You have manstroked the 5.7 enough for having just a little bit more and it took much more engineering/development to get it and at this time, it really isn't more.

While you are on your trip of being a wealth of knowledge, go ahead and tell me which light duty pickups built 40 years ago that came with V-8 gas engines contained anything other than push rods and 2 valves per cylinder. Then tell me which ones had that 30 years ago, then 20 years ago, then show me a list of light truck, V-8 engines older than 1996 that had 4 valves per cylinder. I bet it is pretty small if any exist at all. Now the old man had a 91 ZR1 Corvette that fit that bill, but it surely wasn't offered in any GM pickups.

Come on Einstein, I am waiting to be blessed with this information.

Of course now, you find it all over the place. I am somewhat confident that the first one found in a v-8 powered pickup was the Ford triton series. That of course is a guess and have no actual wisdom to back it up.

So who did it and when?
Was it Ford, Dodge, GM, international or jeep. We know Toyota didn't offer a truck with a v-8 in it until the mighty first gen Tundra, Nissan not until Titan so that pretty much leaves the domestics in the V-8 truck world of the United States.

[Tankerhank]

.... 32 valve "wild" design *LOL!!!!
4 valves per cylinder (Penta head) is a standard for the modern motor as it allows for efficent flow of air/fuel. "Modern motor" *G* it has been around for nye on 40 years, not as old a design as a pushrod motor but to each their own. Motorcycles use it as it allows the motor to sping upwards of 16,000 RPM without parts exploding!

For grunt nothing replaced cubes.

[rsh_757]

As far as gas engines go, I still put the 8.1 GM at the top. It really pulls well and in many cases doesn't have to rev to get the job done. My partner has a 2002 8.1 and he has to force it down in gear to keep the juices in the tranny flowing.

The hemi doesn't have near that displacement and does the job, but that 8.1 was made to pull heavy. Too bad they don't make it anymore!

[rsh_757]

I thought I read somewhere that the Hemi was tested to some crazy amount of running hours under load at high RPM's without missing a beat. I pulled. 31' trailer with my 1500 hemi and 3.92 gears all over the place around here (we have mass hills) and I was not afraid at all to run it at 4k up every hill. That was never the problem. However the 31' trailer and wind was not to mention the mileage, it really sucked it down on the hills. The crazy part is that it isn't some 32 valve wild design engine. It is a 16 valve push-rod motor and it makes tons of power for it's size and even more now.

You are correct, there is an attraction to the low RPM power, it is nice to cruise up hills and even on the really steep ones at 22-2400 rpm's (I know guys that spin them higher) but my package just doesn't need it. The hemi will move a load if given the chance.

[Hannibal]

Yes it is. You've never read a post from me denying that fact. Horsepower is what moves you at a desirable speed. Diesels make their horsepower at a lower rpm. That makes them the desirable engine for towing. Both diesels and small block gasser have finally reached the point of reasonable horsepower for towing larger trailers. Small block gassers simply make their horsepower at about 30% higher rpm. Not a problem at all for the engine but a big problem for those afraid of it. All the claims of million mile engines is pretty much fluff anyhow. Very few keep their trucks past 100k miles. The 5.7L Hemi easily meets that expectation. Just proved it.
Ever compared the price of a set of injectors for a 6.7L Cummins and a 5.7L Hemi? It'll scare you.:B