Ford finally releases specs for F-150 3.0L diesel

[ShinerBock]

Power - 250 hp at 3,250 RPM and 440 lb-ft at 1,750 RPM

Max Towing - 11,400 lbs


Still underpowered to me(your towing preferences may be different) for the size of truck it is going in and an 11k tow rating, but I am sure there will be a market for it like the Ecodiesel. By the towing specs, it seems to be offered in the HD F150 which is something Ram needs for the Ecodiesel and its dismal payload.


TFL Truck: FORD RELEASES POWER, TORQUE, TOWING SPECS FOR 3.0L POWERSTROKE DIESEL

[1stgenfarmboy]

gas in So.IL is 2.42....diesel is 2.80

[Allamakee1]

ShinerBock wrote:
Ah, I see what you are doing wrong. You are using the fuel prices in your area and not the national average for most people. And you said I cherry picked.

Again, we are talking about the AVERAGE truck buyer and not a small percentage. Most people have a much greater difference between gas and diesel prices due to many states having a much higher tax rate for diesel. Hence the reason why I was using the national average and not just one area. Why don't you plug in the national average fuel prices that MOST people pay in your equation and see where it gets you. Then you might see why I say that it s not enough of a dfference for most half ton truck buyers.

Here are the national averages by region - LINK

You are clearly the one cherry picking, I used every actual price nationwide. I didn't choose any region. My personal prices are actually a little higher than the ones listed.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/PET_PRI_GND_DCUS_NUS_M.htm

Go to the link, select mid-grain gas or on-road diesel and click the graph. Then go to each data point for each fuel and check my numbers for all of 2017. Then go back and repeat it for the other fuel as well.

I'm not speculating diesel does this in this month..... and this in this month....., I'm using the actual national figures for each individual month in my calculations.

[ShinerBock]

Ah, I see what you are doing wrong. You are using the fuel prices in your area and not the national average for most people. And you said I cherry picked.

Again, we are talking about the AVERAGE truck buyer and not a small percentage. Most people have a much greater difference between gas and diesel prices due to many states having a much higher tax rate for diesel. Hence the reason why I was using the national average and not just one area. Why don't you plug in the national average fuel prices that MOST people pay in your equation and see where it gets you. Then you might see why I say that it s not enough of a dfference for most half ton truck buyers.

Here are the national averages by region - LINK

[Allamakee1]

Month Gas Cost Diesel Cost
January 2.6 218.922229 2.58 156.2087186
February 2.57 216.3962033 2.57 155.6032585
March 2.59 218.0802205 2.55 154.3923382
April 2.68 225.6582976 2.58 156.2087186
May 2.65 223.1322719 2.56 154.9977983
June 2.62 220.6062462 2.51 151.9704976
July 2.57 216.3962033 2.5 151.3650374
August 2.65 223.1322719 2.6 157.4196389
September 2.92 245.8665034 2.79 168.9233818
October 2.78 234.0783833 2.79 168.9233818
November 2.84 239.1304348 2.91 176.1889036
December 2.76 232.3943662 2.91 176.1889036
Total 2713.793631 1928.390577
Maintenance 90 240
Total 2803.793631 2168.390577
Fuel Filter 0 30
Total 2803.793631 2198.390577
DEF 0 40.54161162
Total 2803.793631 2238.932188

Monthly 233.6494693 186.5776824
Monthly Difference 47.07178691
Yearly Difference 564.8614429
Year-2 1129.722886
Year-5 2824.307214

Excel formatting doesn't work on here. How do you delete this?

[Allamakee1]

Maintenance - Yearly - Fuel Filter - Total
Gas - 45 - 74.25 - 0 - 74.25
Diesel - 120 - 198 - 30 - 228

[Allamakee1]

DEF - Gallons Usage - Price - Total
2% - 726.5521797 - 14.53104359 - 2.79 - 40.54161162

[Allamakee1]

Miles - Miles/month - Services
16500 - 1375 - 1.65

[Allamakee1]

2015 Fuelly numbers-thats what year my truck is and its actually more for the EB than the 10 speed you listed actually.

MPG Gas
16.33
MPG Diesel
22.71

[Allamakee1]

Diesel
2.58
2.57
2.55
2.58
2.56
2.51
2.5
2.6
2.79
2.79
2.91
2.91

these go with the corresponding months of the gas post

[Allamakee1]

Month Gas
January 2.6
February 2.57
March 2.59
April 2.68
May 2.65
June 2.62
July 2.57
August 2.65
September 2.92
October 2.78
November 2.84
December 2.76

[ShinerBock]

Allamakee1 wrote:
Again, Please show me where I said it will outsell the EB. I said you were wrong and still are that this diesel doesn't have a place in the marketplace. The reading comprehension in this country is terrible.

And I never said the diesel doesn't have a place in the market. In fact I have said that I believe it will have a less than 20% take rate which is not too far off the GM and Ram expected from their diesels. That reading comprehension though...

So... if I state that this diesel will not outsell the Ecoboost because most are not willing to sacrifice the power and capability for such little AND will probably have a lower take rate than the Ecoboost? Why do you keep saying I am wrong unless you think otherwise that it will have a higher take rate?

[ShinerBock]

Allamakee1 wrote:
Ok back on topic. For those interested, I created a spreadsheet. It includes the exact national monthly average fuel prices for mid-grain gas and on-road diesel for every month throughout 2017 from the U.S. Energy Information Administration. I included things such as yearly maintenance, which includes oil changes for gas (45) and diesel (120) and fuel filters for diesel (30) multiplied by the factor of an oil change every 10k and filter every 20k. I used the fuelly numbers for comparing the EB to the ED as the ED is the only thing we currently have to compare and the EB seems to be of interest here for some. I also included DEF usage at 2%, I used the truck stop rate of around $2.80/Gallon.

I will tell you, for it to be a complete wash price wise, you would have to drive exactly 3,987.3 miles for them to cost you the same for the year. Anything less, the ED costs more to drive. Anything more, the EB costs more to drive. Take driving opinions into account from there, but there is nothing left to argue about with the actual numbers.

Couple examples on savings:
Yearly,
10,000 Miles = $271
20,000 Miles = $723
30,000 Miles = $1,174
40,000 Miles = $1,626

Ownership over multiple years....

Shout out a mileage and I will give you the ACTUAL cost difference.

I think there is something off in your calculations. Are you making your calculations with both fuels being that same cost because that is not the case for most people in the US?

Using your 10k mile savings of $271 as an example. Taking the average fuelly mileage of 16.2 for the 10-speed 3.5L Ecoboost and 22.4 for the Ecodiesel(which this 3.0L should get similar mileage), and factoring an average regular gasoline fuel price of $2.50 with diesel being $.25 higher, then you calculations should look like this for 10k miles.

(miles/mileage) x fuel price = cost

Gas: (10,000 miles/16.2 mpg) x $2.50 = $1,543.21 a year

Diesel: (10,000 miles/ 22.4 mpg) x $2.75 = $1,227.68 a year

$1,543.21 gas - $1,227.68 diesel = $315.53 annual fuel savings or $26.29 a month


Then factor in oil changes with the Ecoboost being $45 and the Ecodiesel $120 would be a $75 difference.

$315.53 annual savings - $75 oil change difference = $240.53 annual savings or $20.04 a month


Then factor in DEF at a 2% usage rate and $2.80 per gallon

10,000 miles / 22.4 mpg = 446.43 gallons of diesel used

.02 percent x 446.43 gallons of diesel = 8.93 gallons of DEF

8.93 gallons of DEF x $2.80 per gallon = $25.00 annual DEF

$240.53 previous annual savings - $25.00 = $215.53 annual savings or just $17.96 a month with 10k miles




For your 20k mile mark using the same fuel prices, oil change prices & intervals, and DEF prices in the formulas above, then your savings would be..

$631.06 fuel savings - $150 oil change - $50 of DEF - $25 fuel filter = $406.06 annual savings or $33.84 a month with 20k miles


Neither of these are a big enough savings for MOST half ton truck buyer to loose over 130 hp, more capability, and better performance. Go ahead, ask anyone here if you don't believe me.

[Allamakee1]

ShinerBock wrote:
Side note, if diesel prices only $.25 higher than the prices above(like they are in the summer for most people due to higher diesel taxes) making regular $2.50 and diesel $2.75. Then that would only be a $43.51 a month savings for these months and only a $28.74 for the winter months when diesel prices are generally $.50 higher due to diesel also being used as heating fuel during this time. Even factoring this in will not be enough of a monetary gain to make the average half ton truck owner switch considering what he will be loosing.

I took all of your side notes out of the equation. I factored in each individual price of each individual month with my spreadsheet. I didn't do some average, I did what it will cost to drive the truck in July and what it will cost to drive the truck in January. Your average mileage you gave was 16.5k right? that is a $564.86 savings with the diesel for the year ($47.01/month). If that savings isn't enough for you, it might be for someone else. $1129.72 for 2 years. $2824.31 for 5 years..........Adds up and that's just your average driver.

[Allamakee1]

ShinerBock wrote:

smurfs_of_war wrote:
Gents, is there any point to all of this? If so could we get to it please? I was enjoying this thread before the pot got tipped.

Because I posted this and Allmakkee1 got mad about it saying I was wrong when I said that most half ton truck owners will choose the Ecoboost over this engine if the cost difference is as low as it is becuase most would not be willing to give up over 130 hp, more capability, and better performance for such little monetary gain.

Again, Please show me where I said it will outsell the EB. I said you were wrong and still are that this diesel doesn't have a place in the marketplace. The reading comprehension in this country is terrible.

[ShinerBock]

smurfs_of_war wrote:
Gents, is there any point to all of this? If so could we get to it please? I was enjoying this thread before the pot got tipped.

Because I posted this and Allmakkee1 got mad about it saying I was wrong when I said that most half ton truck owners will choose the Ecoboost over this engine if the cost difference is as low as it is becuase most would not be willing to give up over 130 hp, more capability, and better performance for such little monetary gain.

ShinerBock wrote:


Yes, you explained your situation and personal opinion just as I have explained mine which is that most would probably not be willing to give up that much power and capability for such little monetary gain. If the gain was greater(ie increase in fuel prices) then I can see it, but not if it remains less than $50 a month in savings.

So essentially, if you drive the average 16,550 miles most American male drives a year(LINK) and the gasoline prices in your area is the $2.50(current US average) and diesel was $2.99(current US average)(LINK). Then you take the average fuel mileage of the current 3.5L Ecoboost on fuelly which is 16.2 mpg(LINK) and then took the average for the Ecodiesel which is 22.4 mpg(LINK). That would give the average person a savings of $344.88 a year or just $28.74 a month on fuel alone.

Then add in the maintenance costs for both with the oil being about $120 for the Ecodiesel and $45 for an Ecoboost owner then that drops the savings down to $269.88 a year or $22.49 a month. Then you add in the DEF which is generally at a rate of 2% of 1 gallon of diesel consumed. An average fuel economy of 22.4 over 16,550 miles is 739 gallons which brings you to 14.78 gallons of DEF used. At Walmart's current price of $11.97 for a 2.5 gallon jug, that comes out to $70.77 cents for 14.78 gallons. This drops your savings down to $199.11 a year or just $16.59 a month. The $30 fuel filter will drop the savings to $169.11 a year($14.09 a month), but that is at a longer than 16.5k mile interval.

These calculations are based on the average person with the links provided for the data and not some small percentage of people like you and I who drive a lot more per year. I will bet you $1000 that if you go ask an Ecoboost owner or any other V8 truck owner that you can save them less than $17 a month if they switch to a truck engine with over 130 less horsepower, less capability, and less performance a vast majority will go tell you to pound sand and they will keep their truck.

Side note, if diesel prices only $.25 higher than the prices above(like they are in the summer for most people due to higher diesel taxes) making regular $2.50 and diesel $2.75. Then that would only be a $43.51 a month savings for these months and only a $28.74 for the winter months when diesel prices are generally $.50 higher due to diesel also being used as heating fuel during this time. Even factoring this in will not be enough of a monetary gain to make the average half ton truck owner switch considering what he will be loosing.