How heavy of a trailer can I get?

[Shorteelaw]

OK so I just posted another topic about my payload but after the help of others, I figured out that with everyone in the vehicle (including another child down the road) and our gas tank full we are left with roughly 900 pounds of payload in our truck to tow. How do I figure out what weight of a trailer would be acceptable (and of course, safe)?

[Atlee]

Shorteelaw wrote:


Our payload will probably be more than 940 since we will be taking off our bed cover but 940 is still the number we will need to work with, right? I will definitely take a look at those trailers again. Thanks for the suggestion 🙂

Why would you be taking off the bed cover? That is one item I'd never take off of mine. I like the fact anything in the bed will stay dry, and those items are less likely to grow legs under a bed cover.

You will probably not be taking a generator, but due to the way I use my trailer, I need generators. They are secure under my hard bed cover when we're on the road.

[2112]

Huntindog wrote:

ah64id wrote:
Look at where the water tank is, if it's fwd of the axles tongue weight will decrease on the trip home.

Not in all cases. It depends on where the waste water tanks are. Along with a lot of other things.

I'll throw in my $0.02 on this part of the equation. Here is something I didn't consider when buying my current FW, tank location.

We don't dry camp. Most of the CG we frequent have water and elect but no FHU. My fresh tank, which is always almost empty, is over the axles while my waste tanks are up front. Furthermore, the dump stations are sometimes a mile or so away from the camp site.

I tow in with all tanks empty and tow out with gray and black tanks full. This puts me WWAAAAYYY over RAWR. That is the longest mile of the whole trip, between the camp site and dump station.

[Huntindog]

ah64id wrote:
Look at where the water tank is, if it's fwd of the axles tongue weight will decrease on the trip home.

Not in all cases. It depends on where the waste water tanks are. Along with a lot of other things.

[MitchF150]

My profession is accounting... Analyzing numbers is what I do.

I'm the system admin for a cpa firm, so I know the type! You've gotta love numbers to get to that degree and if that's what floats your boat, more power to ya! 🙂

This was my 16th year with the firm, so my 16th tax season and I'm ready for a break! 🙂

All my best and I hope you find the perfect rig!

'snotty' Mitch 😉

[Shorteelaw]

Ron Gratz wrote:

Shorteelaw wrote:
So say our trailer is 6,000 pounds when we leave and we verify the hitch weight is 900 pounds.... How much would I want it to be on the way back?

First -- we need to know the following:
1) Do you plan to have a full fresh water tank when you leave? If so, does this mean there is no place to fill the fresh water tank at your camping destination?
2) Do you plan to return home without emptying your gray and black water tanks?
3) Why do you want a TW% of 15% when you leave home?
4) How many pounds of food and beverage do you plan to carry with you when you leave home?

If the weight of the trailer remains close to 6000#, the TW should be kept above 600#.
And the TW should never be greater than 940#

With a trailer weight of 6000#, there is no reason to have a TW of 900# (15%) when you leave home, unless you're sure that the TW is going to decrease by 200-300# for the trip home.

If the fresh water tank is full when you leave AND empty when you return, AND if the gray and black tanks are full when you return, AND if the fresh tank is ahead of the axles AND the waste tanks are behind the axles, then the TW might decrease by 200-300# for trip home if you are not able to move any load from the rear of the trailer toward the front.

If the fresh water tank is full when you leave AND empty when you return, AND if the gray and black tanks are full when you return, AND if the fresh tank is behind the axles AND the waste tanks are in front of the axles, then the TW might increase by 200-300# for trip home if you are not able to move any load from the front of the trailer toward the rear.
In this case, the TW should be limited to 600-700# when you leave home so it does not increase to more than 940# when you return.

The location of fresh and waste tanks varies with manufacturer and model.
Ideally, the fresh tank would be between the axles, with one waste tank ahead of the axles and one waste tank behind the axles.
Then, if the fresh tank goes from full to empty and the waste tanks go from empty to full, there is very little change in TW.

We really can't say what will happen to TW unless we know the tank sizes and locations, whether tanks will be full or empty when travelling, and where the consumables such as food and drinks will be stored.

Ron

Thank you for your posts! You're right- everyone has been hammering this 15% into my head that I'm stuck on making my TW precisely 15%. I just want to make sure that I'm not way over 15% but not under 10%. So I guess I could load it up, take it to the scale, pick a number between say 13-15% and call it good. Right?

To answer your questions - the only way we will have much fresh water in our tanks is if the CG we go to does not have water and in which case another vehicle we would be traveling with (my mom or in laws) would be hauling all of our food to cut down on weight. We won't be keeping food in our TT while we are not camping so it won't be a hassle to just pack it into someone else's vehicle until we get there. Do most CG's have a place to drain our tanks? Obviously RV'ing is new to us.

Which by the way- you're one of few who has always been nice and not snotty when I ask questions (albeit some ignorant ones I'm sure, but that's how we are learning!) and so I wanted to say thank you!

[Ron_Gratz]

ah64id wrote:
Based on my experience with TT's you won't have an issue with tongue weight on the return trip. Check the fill TW, make sure it's not too much and enjoy.

IMHO if you have a close scale then a TW scale is a waste of money, figure out where you are at and retest when you make major loading changes.

To determine TW from scale weights, you must:
1) weigh the TV with the TT unhooked, and
2) weigh the TV with the TT attached and with the WD not activated.

It is much easier to measure the TW at home with a Sherline scale.
And, if the TW is going to vary as much as some are speculating,
the TW should be measured before leaving and before returning.

Just a reminder, if you have 900 of payload remaining you only have about 800 after a WDH. Really you should be looking for a trailer with a TW of 750 max, or max GVW of 5000-5500, the empty weight of 4000 still is looking pretty solid.---

IF the 900# of payload stated in the first post did not account for the weight of a WDH, then the trailer-induced vertical load should be limited to about 800# (assuming 100# for the WDH).
If they are using a WDH to restore the TV's front axle to its unhitched load --
the resulting vertical load applied to the TV will be about 80% of the TT's tongue weight.
If the TV's available payload is 800#, the maximum allowable tongue weight, based on TV's GVWR, will be approximately 800/0.8 = 1000#.

However, as we now know, the receiver's TW limit is 940#.
With a typical TW% of 13%, the corresponding maximum allowable TT weight would be about 940/0.13 = 7230#.
And assuming they can keep the loaded weight to 1000# above the dry weight, the dry weight could be about 6200#.

If you prefer to use an atypical TW% of 15%, the corresponding TT weight would be about 6270%.
Corresponding dry weight would be about 5200#.

Ron

[Shorteelaw]

MitchF150 wrote:
I respect all the research you are doing and trying to make an informed decision on buying an expensive RV and not biting off more than you can chew, but WOW....

In all the time I've been RVing... And this goes back to the early 70's when I was a kid and Mom and Dad got tired of taking us kids camping in tents, have we or I ever worried about the difference in the TW going out and coming back from a camping trip...

I base my weights on it's max ratings and if it's less, it's just a bonus.. 🙂

Sure, I might have been overweight in the past... The world did not end and I didn't kill anyone.. 😉

I know it's a different world than it was 45 years ago, but physics have always been the same since ancient times.. 🙂

Anyway, I think you are WAY over thinking this deal and just need to find something with around a GVWR of around #6000, load it up and ENJOY and HAVE FUN and not fret the little stuff..

Sure, you don't want to get a #10,000 TT with a Nissan Titan and a big and growing family.... We didn't do that 45 years ago...

It mostly comes down to common sense and knowing your own limits and comfort level.. That's what keeps you within your limits of everything in life, right??

Good luck!

Mitch

My profession is accounting... Analyzing numbers is what I do.

[MitchF150]

I respect all the research you are doing and trying to make an informed decision on buying an expensive RV and not biting off more than you can chew, but WOW....

In all the time I've been RVing... And this goes back to the early 70's when I was a kid and Mom and Dad got tired of taking us kids camping in tents, have we or I ever worried about the difference in the TW going out and coming back from a camping trip...

I base my weights on it's max ratings and if it's less, it's just a bonus.. 🙂

Sure, I might have been overweight in the past... The world did not end and I didn't kill anyone.. 😉

I know it's a different world than it was 45 years ago, but physics have always been the same since ancient times.. 🙂

Anyway, I think you are WAY over thinking this deal and just need to find something with around a GVWR of around #6000, load it up and ENJOY and HAVE FUN and not fret the little stuff..

Sure, you don't want to get a #10,000 TT with a Nissan Titan and a big and growing family.... We didn't do that 45 years ago...

It mostly comes down to common sense and knowing your own limits and comfort level.. That's what keeps you within your limits of everything in life, right??

Good luck!

Mitch

[Ron_Gratz]

Shorteelaw wrote:
So say our trailer is 6,000 pounds when we leave and we verify the hitch weight is 900 pounds.... How much would I want it to be on the way back?

First -- we need to know the following:
1) Do you plan to have a full fresh water tank when you leave? If so, does this mean there is no place to fill the fresh water tank at your camping destination?
2) Do you plan to return home without emptying your gray and black water tanks?
3) Why do you want a TW% of 15% when you leave home?
4) How many pounds of food and beverage do you plan to carry with you when you leave home?

If the weight of the trailer remains close to 6000#, the TW should be kept above 600#.
And the TW should never be greater than 940#

With a trailer weight of 6000#, there is no reason to have a TW of 900# (15%) when you leave home, unless you're sure that the TW is going to decrease by 200-300# for the trip home.

If the fresh water tank is full when you leave AND empty when you return, AND if the gray and black tanks are full when you return, AND if the fresh tank is ahead of the axles AND the waste tanks are behind the axles, then the TW might decrease by 200-300# for trip home if you are not able to move any load from the rear of the trailer toward the front.

If the fresh water tank is full when you leave AND empty when you return, AND if the gray and black tanks are full when you return, AND if the fresh tank is behind the axles AND the waste tanks are in front of the axles, then the TW might increase by 200-300# for trip home if you are not able to move any load from the front of the trailer toward the rear.
In this case, the TW should be limited to 600-700# when you leave home so it does not increase to more than 940# when you return.

The location of fresh and waste tanks varies with manufacturer and model.
Ideally, the fresh tank would be between the axles, with one waste tank ahead of the axles and one waste tank behind the axles.
Then, if the fresh tank goes from full to empty and the waste tanks go from empty to full, there is very little change in TW.

We really can't say what will happen to TW unless we know the tank sizes and locations, whether tanks will be full or empty when travelling, and where the consumables such as food and drinks will be stored.

Ron

[AH64ID]

Based on my experience with TT's you won't have an issue with tongue weight on the return trip. Check the fill TW, make sure it's not too much and enjoy.

IMHO if you have a close scale then a TW scale is a waste of money, figure out where you are at and retest when you make major loading changes.

Just a reminder, if you have 900 of payload remaining you only have about 800 after a WDH. Really you should be looking for a trailer with a TW of 750 max, or max GVW of 5000-5500, the empty weight of 4000 still is looking pretty solid. It doesn't take much to add 50lbs to the tow vehicle and lose more available payload.

[Shorteelaw]

So then how do I know how much it weighs to make sure we aren't below 10%. We will buy a tongue weight scale... But I need to know how much the trailer weighs post-camping to figure out how much the tongue weight needs to be.

So say our trailer is 6,000 pounds when we leave and we verify the hitch weight is 900 pounds.... How much would I want it to be on the way back?

[Ron_Gratz]

Shorteelaw wrote:
If I weigh the trailer before we leave (scale is super close to our house) to make sure it's not too heavy and make sure we have no more than 15% on the tongue....

You don't need to be concerned about having more than 15% on the tongue.
You do need to be concerned about having more than 940# on the tongue because you've stated that is the limit for your receiver.

---How do I know how much the trailer weighs on the way back since obviously things will change? I was thinking we could buy one of those small devices that will tell you your tongue weight so we can make sure to pack our trailer correctly but I don't know how to make sure it's between 10-15 if I don't know how much the trailer weighs...

I would not be concerned about exceeding a TW% of 15% as long as the TW does not exceed 940#.
I would be concerned about having the TW% below 10%.

If you do a complete set of axle load measurements with the trailer having a typical ready-for-camping loading, you will be able to calculate the loaded TW, the loaded total trailer weight, and the TW%.

If you purchase a Sherline Tongue Weight Scale, you can check the before leaving on a trip and before returning from a trip. That will enable you to determine if you need to shift cargo to keep the TW below 940# and will enable you to ensure that TW% doesn't get too low.

Ron

[AH64ID]

Look at where the water tank is, if it's fwd of the axles tongue weight will decrease on the trip home.

[westend]

Shorteelaw wrote:

westend wrote:
You can use a bathroom scale, a length of lumber, and a fulcrum to get a somewhat accurate weight. Hopefully, someone will post up the configuration. Gotta' run or I'd find the picture of the steup.

For the tongue weight or gross weight? When I read the bathroom scale method it was for finding out how much was going to be on your hitch.... I could've misunderstood of course.

Yup tongue weight.

Pictorial

[Shorteelaw]

westend wrote:
You can use a bathroom scale, a length of lumber, and a fulcrum to get a somewhat accurate weight. Hopefully, someone will post up the configuration. Gotta' run or I'd find the picture of the steup.

For the tongue weight or gross weight? When I read the bathroom scale method it was for finding out how much was going to be on your hitch.... I could've misunderstood of course.