Lemon Travel Trailers in Australia

[RobertRyan]

It seems to be the Chinese and the few US operations have been targeted by this new law.
Locally made RV's have about 20% attracting criticism and will be hit by enforced Lemon laws

Peak body welcomes tougher RV import and manufacturing laws
The Caravan Industry Association of Australia has welcomed the introduction of the new Road Vehicle Standards Act (RVSA), which will help remove “rogue manufacturers off our roads” and encourage a “level playing field" for the Australian RV industry.

“The Caravan industry had been working really hard over the last five years to lobby government in Canberra,” CIAA chairperson Grant Wickens said. “It gives us a level playing field between local manufacturers and importers, it’s great for our consumers, it means safety standards are lifted, and it actually takes those rogue manufacturers off our roads."
The Federal Department will also have increased powers which include removing approval to supply to market, fines, or the issuing of a recall (which includes for non-safety related matters);

“Australians will be better protected through the strengthening of the laws governing all vehicles, including trailers in the Australian market through the Act,” CIAA CEO Stuart Lamont said. “Increased powers for the Government to bring penalty on businesses doing the wrong thing are also welcomed.

“When the RVSA takes effect those purchasing caravanning product can have even greater confidence in terms of safety, environmental and anti-theft performance of all vehicles (including trailers) entering the Australian market for the first time - whether new or used,” he said.

Lamont said the new legislation will also see better identification of caravans and a consistent approach to both locally manufactured and imported product.

“One caravan accident is one caravan accident too many, and the more steps we can put in place to provide better outcomes for Australian caravanners the better," he said.

"Industry businesses who consistently ignore their obligations under Australian Design Rules should not be supplying product to the market, and they are put on notice of increased scrutiny against any such practices.


Replacing the 1989 Motor Vehicle Standards Act, the new laws will come into effect late-2019 and have implications for many RV manufacturers and importers.

For example, businesses selling more than four units under 4500kg annually will be required to obtain an approval from the Federal Government, and all products manufactured or imported will be required to be logged onto a Register of Approved Vehicles (an electronic database).

[RobertRyan]

wnjj wrote:

RobertRyan wrote:

Huh. Earlier you posted about US made trailers being sold in Australia being inferior. Now you state there are no US rv dealers in Australia. Can you make up your mind or are your twisted tales confusing you?

Again, the info I found is about protecting Austrailians from inferior Austrailian made trailers.

Very simple dealers buy up Travel Trailers and 5th wheelers from the US and sell them as bargain basement buys. No manufacturer support,just low prices. Think a RV " Dollar shop"
Many people steer clear of such dealers , but if you think you have a bargain, then you make a purchase

So stupid, gullible people who think they can get something for nothing are now pushing for more laws to protect them from themselves? Sounds about right.

No, it is not the Gullible people, it is people who bought in good faith from a manufacturer. People who buy from a wholesaler are not covered, manufacturer is not Australian( could be British or US) or they might directly from a wholesaler in Europe who will sell direct to the customer

[RobertRyan]

drsteve wrote:

RobertRyan wrote:

Very simple dealers buy up Travel Trailers and 5th wheelers from the US and sell them as bargain basement buys. No manufacturer support,just low prices. Think a RV " Dollar shop"
Many people steer clear of such dealers , but if you think you have a bargain, then you make a purchase

You knowingly buy a new RV from someone who is not an authorized dealer and has no connection to the manufacturer... exactly how is a lemon law going to help in that situation? Unless you purchase from a manufacturer, or an authorized dealer, there is NO WARRANTY. Now if the seller represented that there was a warranty, they are guilty of fraud, but that's a separate issue and has nothing to do with whether the unit is a lemon.

If it is not a Dealer but a wholesaler, you are buying products not covered by a warranty similar to buying something secondhand

[wnjj]

RobertRyan wrote:

Huh. Earlier you posted about US made trailers being sold in Australia being inferior. Now you state there are no US rv dealers in Australia. Can you make up your mind or are your twisted tales confusing you?

Again, the info I found is about protecting Austrailians from inferior Austrailian made trailers.

Very simple dealers buy up Travel Trailers and 5th wheelers from the US and sell them as bargain basement buys. No manufacturer support,just low prices. Think a RV " Dollar shop"
Many people steer clear of such dealers , but if you think you have a bargain, then you make a purchase

So stupid, gullible people who think they can get something for nothing are now pushing for more laws to protect them from themselves? Sounds about right.

[drsteve]

RobertRyan wrote:

Very simple dealers buy up Travel Trailers and 5th wheelers from the US and sell them as bargain basement buys. No manufacturer support,just low prices. Think a RV " Dollar shop"
Many people steer clear of such dealers , but if you think you have a bargain, then you make a purchase

You knowingly buy a new RV from someone who is not an authorized dealer and has no connection to the manufacturer... exactly how is a lemon law going to help in that situation? Unless you purchase from a manufacturer, or an authorized dealer, there is NO WARRANTY. Now if the seller represented that there was a warranty, they are guilty of fraud, but that's a separate issue and has nothing to do with whether the unit is a lemon.

[valhalla360]

RobertRyan wrote:

Still does not get away from the fact Lemon Laws are not being considered for the poorly built US RV's in the US, which there are many

Still haven't seen any evidence to support the idea that the Aussies are getting poorly built (at least no worse than locally built) RV's.

If they are that bad, the market will quickly eliminate them.

[RobertRyan]

valhalla360 wrote:

RobertRyan wrote:

That would require a website. As you have lemon laws for Automibiles in the US, ( Do you have website that justifies the US Automotive Lemon Laws?)because of consumer complaints about Automobile quality it appears reasonable you should have Lemon law regards RV's in the US?.not hard to find evidence on line of some real clunkers, in the US It is about time you actually introduced a Lemon Law.It would hopefully make the few US RV's imported into Australia acceptable , my point in the previous post.

Lemon Laws being introduced in Australia are trying to address the Lemons that are being imported , mainly Chinese and US sourced imports and local manufacturers who do not toe the line

1) I'm not claiming lemon laws in the USA were due to inferior Aussie products. In fact when lemon laws were implemented, imports of cars were a tiny portion of the market and to my knowledge, no import angle was used.
2) They were implemented around 40 years ago. So any current data would be skewed by the fact the law is present.
3) Lemon laws in the USA really haven't done anything. It's near impossible to check all the boxes to actually get a car qualified as a lemon (legally speaking). What fixed the USA auto industry was opening it to competition. The domestics had no choice but to improve or be pushed out by the competition.

Again, the big issue is you (and presumably your local politicians) are pushing it as an import issue. If it was simply a quality issue, there would be no need to highlight the import relationship. Simply specify the quality issues that would make it a lemon and don't bring up the import relationship.

By highlighting the import relationship, it leads one to believe it really is about protectionist actions. If there is no documented statistical pattern, it is the logical conclusion that it is about protectionist measures and not about quality.

Velhalla . You now are saying that the reason they lemon laws were implemented has been lost in the US :h
I said imports and local producers come under the Lemon Law it does not discriminate
You have no idea and that is obvious. Imports and local producers are the main players here. Historically Lemon Laws referred too poorly built US vehicles, imports were considered " better" in the US
Not local politicians, very disgruntled buyers are pushing it, they are highlighting the import issue and it will become a law, Politicians did not want to get involved, now they have too, several successful FB campaigns have pushed the issues front and centre
Still does not get away from the fact Lemon Laws are not being considered for the poorly built US RV's in the US, which there are many

[valhalla360]

RobertRyan wrote:

That would require a website. As you have lemon laws for Automibiles in the US, ( Do you have website that justifies the US Automotive Lemon Laws?)because of consumer complaints about Automobile quality it appears reasonable you should have Lemon law regards RV's in the US?.not hard to find evidence on line of some real clunkers, in the US It is about time you actually introduced a Lemon Law.It would hopefully make the few US RV's imported into Australia acceptable , my point in the previous post.

Lemon Laws being introduced in Australia are trying to address the Lemons that are being imported , mainly Chinese and US sourced imports and local manufacturers who do not toe the line

1) I'm not claiming lemon laws in the USA were due to inferior Aussie products. In fact when lemon laws were implemented, imports of cars were a tiny portion of the market and to my knowledge, no import angle was used.
2) They were implemented around 40 years ago. So any current data would be skewed by the fact the law is present.
3) Lemon laws in the USA really haven't done anything. It's near impossible to check all the boxes to actually get a car qualified as a lemon (legally speaking). What fixed the USA auto industry was opening it to competition. The domestics had no choice but to improve or be pushed out by the competition.

Again, the big issue is you (and presumably your local politicians) are pushing it as an import issue. If it was simply a quality issue, there would be no need to highlight the import relationship. Simply specify the quality issues that would make it a lemon and don't bring up the import relationship.

By highlighting the import relationship, it leads one to believe it really is about protectionist actions. If there is no documented statistical pattern, it is the logical conclusion that it is about protectionist measures and not about quality.

[RobertRyan]

Huh. Earlier you posted about US made trailers being sold in Australia being inferior. Now you state there are no US rv dealers in Australia. Can you make up your mind or are your twisted tales confusing you?

Again, the info I found is about protecting Austrailians from inferior Austrailian made trailers.

Very simple dealers buy up Travel Trailers and 5th wheelers from the US and sell them as bargain basement buys. No manufacturer support,just low prices. Think a RV " Dollar shop"
Many people steer clear of such dealers , but if you think you have a bargain, then you make a purchase

[jfkmk]

RobertRyan wrote:

jfkmk wrote:
Once again, out of curiosity, I did a couple of searches. Firs, I did a search on Australian rvs. The rvs set up for the outback sure have a beefy look, but looking like something out of Mad Max, I don’t think it’s something I’d want to pull around.

Then I searched for Australian made rv problems. Seems like the Australian made trailers have as many, if not more, issues than American made trailers. There is plenty iof informaion regarding Australian made rvs with major issues, including safety issues. Note, this isn’t information on imported rvs from China or the USA, nor is it informaition on imported components. It is information on unsafe Austrailian made rvs.

Curiosity killed the cat. There are no dealers for US RV's, noone would handle them,way too many problems. unscrupulous dealers bring in" bargain basement" batches of mixed brands. No way those pieces of crud would get through a Lemon Law
Imported units are the same Chinese built models appearing in the US
Your acceptable Travel Trailers would disintergrate doing what an Off Road Caravan does, big market for those in Australia

Huh. Earlier you posted about US made trailers being sold in Australia being inferior. Now you state there are no US rv dealers in Australia. Can you make up your mind or are your twisted tales confusing you?

Again, the info I found is about protecting Austrailians from inferior Austrailian made trailers.

[RobertRyan]

drsteve wrote:

RobertRyan wrote:

drsteve wrote:

Robert Ryan wrote:
I am not trying to convince someone in the US who does not have a clue why there was pressure by consumers for a Lemon RV law in Australia As the US has NO Lemon laws covering RV's
As a result buyers give Chinese sourced parts and RV's a wide berth. As the new laws states it is trying prevent injuries from faulty imported parts and RV's
As well buyers do not want ugly surprises as this new US Travel Trailers has, as it is not fit for purpose .Going by his comments he is not going to get much satisfaction from the dealer or manufacturer
Disastrous US Travel Trailer

The stuff shown in that video could be fixed with a handful of wood screws and a bottle of glue. Something like that won't fall under a lemon law, which generally requires the existence of major problems that the dealer or factory cannot or will not repair.

Different attitude to what would fall under a lemon law. The trailer as shown in the video would here . Would you be happy with that if it was a new Pickup or Car?

In order to qualify as a lemon under most state laws here, the car must (1) have a substantial defect covered by the warranty that occurred within a certain period of time or number of miles after you bought the car, and (2) not be fixed after a reasonable number of repair attempts.

Under most laws, three attempts to repair the defect are allowed before the manufacturer is required to offer a replacement or refund.

I seriously doubt that the Jayco in that YouTube vid would fall under any lemon law, unless perhaps the dealer proved unable to perform basic repairs.

Not in the US but definitely in Australia, that is extremely unacceptable. Basic flaws like that would indicate that the hidden flaws could be nasty

[drsteve]

RobertRyan wrote:

drsteve wrote:

Robert Ryan wrote:
I am not trying to convince someone in the US who does not have a clue why there was pressure by consumers for a Lemon RV law in Australia As the US has NO Lemon laws covering RV's
As a result buyers give Chinese sourced parts and RV's a wide berth. As the new laws states it is trying prevent injuries from faulty imported parts and RV's
As well buyers do not want ugly surprises as this new US Travel Trailers has, as it is not fit for purpose .Going by his comments he is not going to get much satisfaction from the dealer or manufacturer
Disastrous US Travel Trailer

The stuff shown in that video could be fixed with a handful of wood screws and a bottle of glue. Something like that won't fall under a lemon law, which generally requires the existence of major problems that the dealer or factory cannot or will not repair.

Different attitude to what would fall under a lemon law. The trailer as shown in the video would here . Would you be happy with that if it was a new Pickup or Car?

In order to qualify as a lemon under most state laws here, the car must (1) have a substantial defect covered by the warranty that occurred within a certain period of time or number of miles after you bought the car, and (2) not be fixed after a reasonable number of repair attempts.

Under most laws, three attempts to repair the defect are allowed before the manufacturer is required to offer a replacement or refund.

I seriously doubt that the Jayco in that YouTube vid would fall under any lemon law, unless perhaps the dealer proved unable to perform basic repairs.

[RobertRyan]

jfkmk wrote:
Once again, out of curiosity, I did a couple of searches. Firs, I did a search on Australian rvs. The rvs set up for the outback sure have a beefy look, but looking like something out of Mad Max, I don’t think it’s something I’d want to pull around.

Then I searched for Australian made rv problems. Seems like the Australian made trailers have as many, if not more, issues than American made trailers. There is plenty iof informaion regarding Australian made rvs with major issues, including safety issues. Note, this isn’t information on imported rvs from China or the USA, nor is it informaition on imported components. It is information on unsafe Austrailian made rvs.

Curiosity killed the cat. There are no dealers for US RV's, noone would handle them,way too many problems. unscrupulous dealers bring in" bargain basement" batches of mixed brands. No way those pieces of crud would get through a Lemon Law
Imported units are the same Chinese built models appearing in the US
Your acceptable Travel Trailers would disintergrate doing what an Off Road Caravan does, big market for those in Australia

[RobertRyan]

GrandpaKip wrote:

RobertRyan wrote:

GrandpaKip wrote:
Curious as to what the law will specifically cover. I would assume the suspension and frame. Maybe the box and roof. Electric and plumbing? Gas? Everything?
Also, what would constitute it being a lemon?
Seems like it could get real complicated real fast.

Think of it as being like purchasing a new Automobile. You would not be happy if the suspension lent to one side, doors did not close, paint was flaking?

So, it sounds as if it might be bumper to bumper.
If a camper is found to be a lemon, what happens then?

You get to sue the manufacturer or the importer as well as have then replace the unit

[GrandpaKip]

RobertRyan wrote:

GrandpaKip wrote:
Curious as to what the law will specifically cover. I would assume the suspension and frame. Maybe the box and roof. Electric and plumbing? Gas? Everything?
Also, what would constitute it being a lemon?
Seems like it could get real complicated real fast.

Think of it as being like purchasing a new Automobile. You would not be happy if the suspension lent to one side, doors did not close, paint was flaking?

So, it sounds as if it might be bumper to bumper.
If a camper is found to be a lemon, what happens then?