Murphy Bed and Bunk Bed Combo - Help Finding!!

[atler]

I am looking for a travel trailer for a family of 4. I haven't towed before, so I am trying to stay toward the shorter end of the spectrum, like 25' or below. For this size, I am thinking that bunk beds (kids want them) would be great. Also, bc of space, it seems that a murphy bed would be ideal, as it would also double as a couch when not sleeping. Optimally, there would be a slide to give a little more room inside. That said, this combo of size and features does not give a ton of options.

I have found the following three:

KZ E191BH (no murphy bed)
Forest River Wildwood X-Lite 230BHXL
Keystone Passport Ultra Lite 239ML (no slide)

I would love to hear from others on features or considerations that I am not thinking of. For instance, the max cargo capacity on the KZ is 767 lbs. Seems low compared to others, but would I really need any more?

I am new to RV'ing, so any input you have would be helpful. I have very little grasp on the quality differences between various manufacturers, so that would be helpful as well.

I appreciate it!

[bigorange]

Check out the Salem Hyperlite Hemisphere 24BHHL. My buddy just got one of these and has been very pleased with it. Murphy bed plus double bunks. Seems very nice and has nice large tanks too.

[3boxerss]

We have the Wildwood 201BHXL and love it.. We usually camp with the son an daughter in law in tow.. He is 6'1 and sleeps in the top bunk so should be enough room for your kids.

[MikeJulieGDImag]

I'm not sure how big you want to go but I would consider the Grand Design 2400BH. We have the 2800BH and the 2400BH is the same floorplan minus the theatre seats/couch. The bunks are double bunks which is a plus for growing kids. We have a 16 year old that sleeps in one and she has plenty of room. They also have big tanks, 52 gallon fresh water, 39 gallon black, and 71 gallon grey (split between 2 grey tanks). Another plus is it has a residential size queen and 81 inch high radius ceiling. Grand Design also has one of the better reputations in the RV industry for customer service.

[toedtoes]

Yeah, the hybrids would reduce heat/cooling capabilities to some extent as you'll have canvas instead of all hard walls. But few trailers have quality insulation so winter camping will likely require the same preparations - bigger battery bank, generator for recharging, more advanced charger, etc.

If your state parks offer electrical hookups, then you can bring a small space heater. I keep one in my RV that has a remote control. So in winter if I've got electrical, I just turn it on while I'm in bed and wait for things to warm up - I don't bother running it during the night (have great bedding) but it's nice while getting dressed.

Quality bedding makes a huge difference during the night. You can sleep quite comfortably with the right bedding even in such low temps. And they don't have to cost a ton.

With the kids being 4 and 6, you should be able to get about 4 years with the bunks before they start getting too small for the kids (unless you come from a stocky line 🙂 ). Then you could add a tent for the kids and use the bunks for storage.

Yeah, water capacity can be tough. How the sinks are fed to the waste tanks makes a difference too. Depending on your family's usage, you can fill one waste tank very quickly while the other rarely fills. IMHO, unless you will be using water hookups, you want your fresh water tank capacity to be close to your waste tank capacities combined. Carrying some water in portable containers for drinking and cooking is fine, but having to add a bladder of 20gal to the back of your tow vehicle will reduce your payload and the hitch weight you can handle will be reduced. A bigger fresh water tank in the trailer will already be accounted for in its GVWR.

[Lantley]

"You all are awesome!!
I have a Toyota Tundra, 5.7L V8. I believe everything I'm looking at so far is well within towing capacity.

You are confirming my fears on the KZ. I love the specs otherwise, but the low CCC is very much starting to sound like the dagger through the heart. Our kids are 4 and 6. I used to travel light. not so much anymore."

I think you're thinking a bit too small. Your Tundra is more capable than that.
Your kids are very young and will outgrow a small trailer with small bunks very quickly. How long do you envision keeping the trailer?
Avoid playing the upgrade game in just a few years. Anticipate growing. If you are committed to the RV life try and buy your 2nd trailer 1st. Buy something that will last you into the future vs. only a few years. It's much cheaper that way.

[atler]

toedtoes wrote:
Few things:

Bunk beds - often are narrower than twin beds and the kids will soon outgrow them. You don't mention age and gender of kids, but think about in two-three years time and any potential growth spurts.

Yes, you need to watch the CCC with some of these ultralights (especially those with bunk beds). That number does not account for a full fresh water tank. At about 8.3lbs per gallon, if you fill the KZ tank, you will reduce the CCC by about 166lbs. That leaves less than 600lbs for gear. If you plan on bringing bikes or other big items, that can get used up pretty quickly.

Another thing to consider is the size of the fresh water tank vs. the dump tank sizes. The KZ has only a 20gal fresh water tank, yet each dump tank holds 32gal. So, you'll run out of fresh water long before you have to dump. If you don't want to have to refill that often, you'll want to carry additional fresh water. Each additional 5gal will weigh another 41.5lbs. If you'll only use full hookups and not fill your fresh tank, then this isn't a big deal. If you'll be dry camping, this can become a problem. The other 2 trailers have bigger fresh water tanks at 40 and 43 gallons each. The wildwood has the most CCC.

Will you be using the RV for camping or sightseeing? Will you be using private RV parks or tradional campgrounds?

Others can give you more on quality (or lack of).

If you'll be doing more traditional camping trips, you might consider a hybrid. You'll get more internal space for the size as the beds will open outwards. The keystone 217EXP is about 6 inches shorter than the 239ML, but the kids would each have their own queen size bed. That could offer the option of them each bringing a friend. It weighs more than the 239 but less than the wildwood. Its CCC is inbetween also. You also get a sofa that isn't compromized by a bed and a dinette slide opening things up.

You and Dr Steve are both confirming my fears on the CCC for the KZ. It sounds like at 700 lbs, it just won't be enough.

Thank you for your points about the water capacity. I had not thought of that before. We will be using this in a number of GA state parks, there are some awesome ones here that we love. That said, I would like the opportunity to dry camp. To your point the 20 gal fresh tank on the KZ makes that difficult.

I thought about a hybrid, but have a couple of questions. First, would it get colder inside than a traditional hard bodied camper? I think of GA winters, getting into the 20's and 30's. Would this be prohibitive?

[atler]

drsteve wrote:

atler wrote:
I am looking for a travel trailer for a family of 4. I haven't towed before, so I am trying to stay toward the shorter end of the spectrum, like 25' or below. For this size, I am thinking that bunk beds (kids want them) would be great. Also, bc of space, it seems that a murphy bed would be ideal, as it would also double as a couch when not sleeping. Optimally, there would be a slide to give a little more room inside. That said, this combo of size and features does not give a ton of options.

I have found the following three:

KZ E191BH (no murphy bed)
Forest River Wildwood X-Lite 230BHXL
Keystone Passport Ultra Lite 239ML (no slide)

I would love to hear from others on features or considerations that I am not thinking of. For instance, the max cargo capacity on the KZ is 767 lbs. Seems low compared to others, but would I really need any more?

I am new to RV'ing, so any input you have would be helpful. I have very little grasp on the quality differences between various manufacturers, so that would be helpful as well.

I appreciate it!

Welcome to the forums!

Bunks are a must with kids. The Murphy bed takes away from your front pass-thru compartment, which on smaller trailers may be the only storage compartment. Also requires that the bed be made up in order to stow.

A slide for sure gives you a lot more room in a smaller unit. I have owned both, and would never go back to a no-slide TT.

The low CCC of the KZ would disqualify it for me. With four people and all the junk kids want to bring along, 700 lb just isn't enough.

What are you planning to tow with? You need to figure out how much trailer you can reasonably tow before you buy.

You all are awesome!!
I have a Toyota Tundra, 5.7L V8. I believe everything I'm looking at so far is well within towing capacity.

You are confirming my fears on the KZ. I love the specs otherwise, but the low CCC is very much starting to sound like the dagger through the heart. Our kids are 4 and 6. I used to travel light. not so much anymore.

[drsteve]

atler wrote:
I am looking for a travel trailer for a family of 4. I haven't towed before, so I am trying to stay toward the shorter end of the spectrum, like 25' or below. For this size, I am thinking that bunk beds (kids want them) would be great. Also, bc of space, it seems that a murphy bed would be ideal, as it would also double as a couch when not sleeping. Optimally, there would be a slide to give a little more room inside. That said, this combo of size and features does not give a ton of options.

I have found the following three:

KZ E191BH (no murphy bed)
Forest River Wildwood X-Lite 230BHXL
Keystone Passport Ultra Lite 239ML (no slide)

I would love to hear from others on features or considerations that I am not thinking of. For instance, the max cargo capacity on the KZ is 767 lbs. Seems low compared to others, but would I really need any more?

I am new to RV'ing, so any input you have would be helpful. I have very little grasp on the quality differences between various manufacturers, so that would be helpful as well.

I appreciate it!

Welcome to the forums!

Bunks are a must with kids. The Murphy bed takes away from your front pass-thru compartment, which on smaller trailers may be the only storage compartment. Also requires that the bed be made up in order to stow.

A slide for sure gives you a lot more room in a smaller unit. I have owned both, and would never go back to a no-slide TT.

The low CCC of the KZ would disqualify it for me. With four people and all the junk kids want to bring along, 700 lb just isn't enough.

What are you planning to tow with? You need to figure out how much trailer you can reasonably tow before you buy.

[SpeakEasy]

When we were shopping we came up with a similar list of specifications. We wanted bunks (for grandchildren) and a Murphy bed (for the living space). We wanted a fairly robust weight-carrying capacity, so we wanted double-axle. We were trying to keep overall weight down (because at the time we were towing with an SUV), so we DIDN'T want a slide. We wanted big enough tanks (fresh water as well as black and gray) so that we wouldn't have to be dumping or re-filling every three days or so.

We chose the unit in my sig (Flagstaff MicroLite 23 LB). It met all the criteria.

We've camped in it for two years now, and we still really like it. However, the trade-off between Murphy-bed convenience and storage is the weak link. Even though we can store quite a bit of stuff under the couch, it isn't as convenient as a pass-through storage area would be.

Still, you might want to take a look at one of these.

-Speak

[toedtoes]

Few things:

Bunk beds - often are narrower than twin beds and the kids will soon outgrow them. You don't mention age and gender of kids, but think about in two-three years time and any potential growth spurts.

Yes, you need to watch the CCC with some of these ultralights (especially those with bunk beds). That number does not account for a full fresh water tank. At about 8.3lbs per gallon, if you fill the KZ tank, you will reduce the CCC by about 166lbs. That leaves less than 600lbs for gear. If you plan on bringing bikes or other big items, that can get used up pretty quickly.

Another thing to consider is the size of the fresh water tank vs. the dump tank sizes. The KZ has only a 20gal fresh water tank, yet each dump tank holds 32gal. So, you'll run out of fresh water long before you have to dump. If you don't want to have to refill that often, you'll want to carry additional fresh water. Each additional 5gal will weigh another 41.5lbs. If you'll only use full hookups and not fill your fresh tank, then this isn't a big deal. If you'll be dry camping, this can become a problem. The other 2 trailers have bigger fresh water tanks at 40 and 43 gallons each. The wildwood has the most CCC.

Will you be using the RV for camping or sightseeing? Will you be using private RV parks or tradional campgrounds?

Others can give you more on quality (or lack of).

If you'll be doing more traditional camping trips, you might consider a hybrid. You'll get more internal space for the size as the beds will open outwards. The keystone 217EXP is about 6 inches shorter than the 239ML, but the kids would each have their own queen size bed. That could offer the option of them each bringing a friend. It weighs more than the 239 but less than the wildwood. Its CCC is inbetween also. You also get a sofa that isn't compromized by a bed and a dinette slide opening things up.

[atler]

WNYBob wrote:
We have been looking at similar TT's, with and without bunk beds.

You are right, Murphy beds do give you more living space at the cost of storage space! Check the space in the pass through.

You'll probably find that most of us RVers are always looking for storage space or ways to optimize storage space.

Jayco and Keystone offer smaller BH models.

Thank you! Any thoughts on quality between brands?

[WNYBob]

We have been looking at similar TT's, with and without bunk beds.

You are right, Murphy beds do give you more living space at the cost of storage space! Check the space in the pass through.

You'll probably find that most of us RVers are always looking for storage space or ways to optimize storage space.

Jayco and Keystone offer smaller BH models.

[Lwiddis]

KZ is a bad choice. Single axel and only 20 gallons of fresh water along with low ability to carry stuff. I’d skip any TT without a slide...and you have four people. The X Lite seems ok.