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Noob with questions - need expert advice

username_taken
Explorer
Explorer
I am just getting into the world of truck camping, and I wish I had discovered it earlier! It provides so many more options than the giant 16k lb 5th wheel toyhauler we had - as well as being much more cost effective - fuel, purchase price, insurance, tags, tires, and on and on.

I currently have a 2012 GMC 3500HD diesel dually that I will be using it for the TC. Capacities are as follows:
GVWR - 13k lbs
Payload - 5133 lbs
Trailer - 18k lbs - tongue capacity??? 1800 lbs???
5th wheel - 22,400 lbs

We are looking at a 1998 Caribou - 11.5ft (Owner is unsure of model M11G or M11K) Either way, we should have enough payload for the camper with room to spare for a trailer for boat or toys.

But the BIG QUESTION - to tow it I will have to use a hitch extender in the factory class V hitch between (guesstimate) 24" and 36". From reading here, I know that affects trailer and tongue weight limits.

Our 20' flatbed toy trailer is less than 4600 lbs fully loaded with 2 RZRs, full fuelbox, and generator, but is tongue heavy at 665 lbs measured.

I'd like to use a 2.5" to 2" extension without a WD hitch for simplicity - shortest possible length of course.

Is there any way I can do this safely without a new Torklift Superhitch and Supertruss and/or a WD hitch, or do I need to get some weight off the tongue?
29 REPLIES 29

username_taken
Explorer
Explorer
HJGyswyt wrote:
Robert, you are getting close to making a usable setup for your towing needs, however if you do buy an 11.5 camper my best guess is you will need to go all the way to 48" extension to clear the rear bumper of the camper and not have "collision" issues when turning.

Secondly, I would highly recommend going with equalizer type hitch. I don't care how tough your truck is, pulling a trailer that is leveraged about 8' behind the axle puts a ton of stress on things, and by using an equalizer hitch you are transferring the torque load way forward and eliminating tongue weight. I tow my 8000lb trailer with 750lb bars cranked super tight.

You can see in the story I have on my web sight my old rig at 18,000GCW, no air bags in the picture, factory suspension and everything was almost within limits but the truck rear axle was right at 6500lbs. See the last picture in the story "Wood Cutting". Wood Cutting

I'm glad you saw that Curt hitch, I was so impressed I ordered a front hitch also so I can carry my Honda Trail 90 with me into the hills for trail riding and also plug a big winch into front and back receivers. I bought my hitches from the Hitch Store and didn't pay any shipping or tax, and their prices were better than I could source locally. (I do try to support my local merchants)

And one last thing, finding a solid older camper is difficult at best. Please inspect your camper very closely, so many of that vintage are on their last legs even though they look good on the outside. If there is any sag under the cab-over portion, run, don't walk away. Look for any water marks on the inside. Any de-lam issues outside means trouble. If the people selling it have air fresheners in it they are hiding the stink of rot. I would turn the heat on for a full day and have the windows closed, if it's sweating on the inside there is probably a lot of moisture in the walls and roof. I know, I just hauled my beautiful Vacationeer in the pictures to the dump because it wasn't worth fixing it was so rotted, even with aluminum constructed walls. All the best. Hans


Hans - thanks for all the tips. I going back out for a scond look at the camper on Tuesday. I'll make sure to double and triple check the areas you mentioned. If I see even a hint of water damage it's a deal breaker. I've been reading everything I can on this site to try to make sure we don't get a lemon.

Fortunately, we live in Vegas - extremely dry area with little rain. The camper has been stored in an aluminum outbuilding - sheltered from the sun and elements. Owned by an older gent who took meticulous care of all his equipment.

I'm still going to to have to do some more measuring when I look at the camper. With all the added leverage imposed by a hitch extension, I really don't want to have to go past 24", even with a WD hitch. Just too many additional forces at work - on the hitch,on the axle - never mind all the additional leverage the trailer would have to be able to push the truck around going down the road. Even as much as the wife liked the rig, we might have to look at something smaller

Your post did give me an idea. I already have a front hitch on my truck for moving my boat around. I could mount the generator there and get 125 lbs off the tongue of the trailer. No matter what we go with, this can only help the situation by getting weight off the tongue and back axle.

Thanks to all for the ideas - many minds are better than one, and there are some damn fine minds on this site! Keep 'em coming.

HJGyswyt
Explorer
Explorer
Robert, you are getting close to making a usable setup for your towing needs, however if you do buy an 11.5 camper my best guess is you will need to go all the way to 48" extension to clear the rear bumper of the camper and not have "collision" issues when turning.

Secondly, I would highly recommend going with equalizer type hitch. I don't care how tough your truck is, pulling a trailer that is leveraged about 8' behind the axle puts a ton of stress on things, and by using an equalizer hitch you are transferring the torque load way forward and eliminating tongue weight. I tow my 8000lb trailer with 750lb bars cranked super tight.

You can see in the story I have on my web sight my old rig at 18,000GCW, no air bags in the picture, factory suspension and everything was almost within limits but the truck rear axle was right at 6500lbs. See the last picture in the story "Wood Cutting". Wood Cutting

I'm glad you saw that Curt hitch, I was so impressed I ordered a front hitch also so I can carry my Honda Trail 90 with me into the hills for trail riding and also plug a big winch into front and back receivers. I bought my hitches from the Hitch Store and didn't pay any shipping or tax, and their prices were better than I could source locally. (I do try to support my local merchants)

And one last thing, finding a solid older camper is difficult at best. Please inspect your camper very closely, so many of that vintage are on their last legs even though they look good on the outside. If there is any sag under the cab-over portion, run, don't walk away. Look for any water marks on the inside. Any de-lam issues outside means trouble. If the people selling it have air fresheners in it they are hiding the stink of rot. I would turn the heat on for a full day and have the windows closed, if it's sweating on the inside there is probably a lot of moisture in the walls and roof. I know, I just hauled my beautiful Vacationeer in the pictures to the dump because it wasn't worth fixing it was so rotted, even with aluminum constructed walls. All the best. Hans
2003 GMC 2500HD CC Longbox SW/2002 Wilcat Bunkhouse 30'
/1987 Western Wildderness 11' Alpine Truck Camper/1971 MacGregor Venture Sailboat

Rig Pictures, click on this link.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

username_taken
Explorer
Explorer
HJGyswyt, that's a sweet set up, Impressive with the way it hooks both to the frame and the factory receiver. I can get scrap steel from my wife's customers, so that would cost me next to nothing to build. I'm going to look to see if I could adapt something similar for my set up.

If I do decide to go with something commercially available, I found a MUCH more cost effective option from Curt vs. the Torklift products .

Hitch below rated for 20K pounds, and an INSANE 2700 lbs of tongue weight. Makes even the Torklift Superhitch Magnum look wimpy by comparison with only 2k tongue capacity. 1000 lbs more tongue capacity than the original superhitch!

HitchCurt Class V Commercial Duty Hitch

And the Curt Extension will get me 800 lbs tongue and 8k trailer at 24"

Curt Hitch Extension

Best of all, I can get both for about 40% of the price of the ORIGINAL Superhitch and extension - not even the Magnum option - and have more capacity at the hitch than what Torklift offers.

nycsteve
Explorer
Explorer
"That's what I'm afraid of. Spending another $1000 on the Superhitch and Supertruss combo will def. get me into hot water with the wife."

You'll be in more hotwater when your trailer lets loose on the interstate. Not only from the wife but insurance companies, lawyers andcops. GettheSuperhitch or dont tow till you have the bucks to do itright.

HJGyswyt
Explorer
Explorer
I am not the weight police because I would have throw myself in jail. I'm now just setting up my new truck to pull a trailer with a camper on board, as we enjoy horse camping and towing a boat.

Our first truck was a 1970 IH that I modified the sliding bumper to handle the torque load of an equalizer hitch. It worked well for years. That was with a 10' camper. Sorry, no pictures of the hitch.


Then in 1991 we bought our first GM Diesel pickup and also a 11.5' Western Wilderness camper. I built my first hitch extension for that truck, and sold the truck and camper as a package along with the custom extension.

Years later I missed that set up so much I got another truck, this time a 6.5 diesel 3/4 ton. Again I made up an extension for it pictured below. I used a factory hitch tube I separated the ends from and fabricated the connection points to the original receiver. It's a real easy thing to build if you can do metal work. And the attachments were four bolts into nut plates and a hitch pin. Slide it into the factory hitch, pop in 4 big bolts and your good to go.








Now I'm sharing these pictures just tell you you don't have to spend thousands to get your truck pulling what you want. I too have to be careful not to cross the line on what can be justified in our families expenses. I just upgraded trucks again and bought a new camper as well, so I'm planning my next frame extension for the rig pictured below. I already got rid of the factory receiver and now have a class 5 Curt under my truck, that doesn't rely on the bumper for strength and has much higher capacity, and spreads the load over a much larger area of the truck frame. Ill build the extension off of that with quick disconnect nut plates.


I was criticized by some on this forum that my design wasn't engineered correctly, but I can tell you that old set up (truck & camper) weighed 10,000lb and my horse trailer loaded weighed 8000lb and together they rolled down the road very stable and not a hint of overloading. I'll post pictures of my new build when I get it done. All the best, Hans
2003 GMC 2500HD CC Longbox SW/2002 Wilcat Bunkhouse 30'
/1987 Western Wildderness 11' Alpine Truck Camper/1971 MacGregor Venture Sailboat

Rig Pictures, click on this link.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

KD4UPL
Explorer
Explorer
I used a Reese 48" extension in my '07.5 GM factory 2.5" receiver to tow my boat. The boat and trailer were about 4,500 pounds with around 200 pounds of tongue weight. The Reese did fine. When I upgraded to my '05 dually it only had a 2" receiver. Instead of upgrading to a 2.5" I just went for the Torklift set up. My 48" extension and hitch were only about $750 if I remember correctly. Have they gone up to $1,000 now?
I like the Torklift set up much better. I think you'd be better off to just spend the money and do it right to begin with.
There is certainly more thinking and planning involved with carrying your RV on the truck vs. pulling it behind. I think that's part of the reason TCs aren't more popular. I have one largely so I can pull my boat; VA won't let you pull 2 trailers.
I think you should be fine on your weight. Possibly over the GVWR buy most people hauling TCs are. I think you've got around 15,000 pounds of axle weight capacity on that truck.
My own rig comes in at about 13,500 on a truck rated for a 11,400 pound GVWR. I'm not over on tire, axle, or hitch ratings. I've got thousands of trouble free miles.

username_taken
Explorer
Explorer
brholt wrote:
I'm not so sure you will be under your payload. Let's play with numbers:

Camper: not sure of weight but for an 11.5 ft camper lets call it 3,500 lb.
Stuff in camper: water, propane, batteries etc. one rule of thumb is to add 1,000 lbs to the a per dry weight.
Stuff in truck: 2 people, dogs? Etc. call it 500 lbs.

Total those and you are at 5,000 lbs leaving you only 133 lbs under your GVWR.

Now, some of these numbers maybe off a bit but the only way you can be sure is to start weighting stuff. Add the weight of the hitch itself and then the tongue weight of what you are towing and you rapidly run out of GVWR.


Good points. Seller claims that the sticker on the camper claims 2500 lb dry weight, and that it could be carried by a 3/4 ton. Older unit, so no slides or other fanciness, but I know Caribou has a reputation for being well built but heavy.

I believe that the rig def needs a dually to carry it - that's what he had it on. If you use the 1000 lb rule, it would be close to 3500 ready to go. I know the area where he lives, and there's a truck scale right up the road. We might have to take a drive before I plunk down cash.

brholt
Explorer II
Explorer II
username taken wrote:


I currently have a 2012 GMC 3500HD diesel dually that I will be using it for the TC. Capacities are as follows:
GVWR - 13k lbs
Payload - 5133 lbs
Trailer - 18k lbs - tongue capacity??? 1800 lbs???
5th wheel - 22,400 lbs

We are looking at a 1998 Caribou - 11.5ft (Owner is unsure of model M11G or M11K) Either way, we should have enough payload for the camper with room to spare for a trailer for boat or toys.


I'm not so sure you will be under your payload. Let's play with numbers:

Camper: not sure of weight but for an 11.5 ft camper lets call it 3,500 lb.
Stuff in camper: water, propane, batteries etc. one rule of thumb is to add 1,000 lbs to the a per dry weight.
Stuff in truck: 2 people, dogs? Etc. call it 500 lbs.

Total those and you are at 5,000 lbs leaving you only 133 lbs under your GVWR.

Now, some of these numbers maybe off a bit but the only way you can be sure is to start weighting stuff. Add the weight of the hitch itself and then the tongue weight of what you are towing and you rapidly run out of GVWR.

username_taken
Explorer
Explorer
I do know that the 2012 hitch is much beefier than the one on my old 2009 was - I'd guess it has to be to support the higher towing ratings of the new trucks.

That said, I'd love to see pictures of the Reese Titan or Torklift Superhitch side by side with the stocker. Anybody got pics?

btggraphix
Explorer
Explorer
username taken wrote:
btggraphix wrote:
Here it is.....might interest you


Wow - that looks overbuilt to say the least. Could it be returned to stock or is that permanently mounted to the frame?

If I had a chassis cab or flatbed I'd do this in a heartbeat, but I'd have to run without the bumper and/ or bed to get this involved. The truck still has to look somewhat stock to function as a driver unloaded, and I'd like to protect resale by keeping the cutting/ welding/ drilling on the truck frame to a minimum.


There is some text in that thread to explain better, but it is entirely removable via bolts. However it IS welded to the original Reese Tow Beast piece, and that in turn was already chopped to fit with the Kelderman suspension.

Yep it is overbuilt, but I tow up to 10k on the hitch with the camper, and I have already bent a borrowed 42" 2.5 to 2" extension and even a short solid 24" extension. Both times I was likely tongue heavy but I don't want to have that happen again. You never want to weld the frame. But I wouldn't worry about extra bolt holes in a dualy frame anyway....I doubt whoever buys it will care.
2006 LanceMax 1191 - loaded and well-used
2005 C4500/Kodiak 4x4, GVWR 17,500

username_taken
Explorer
Explorer
Man, the truck camper/ trailer thing is requiring a lot more thought and creativity than the 5er did. That was a never ending cycle - more truck, more trailer, more hitch, more engine, more trans, more fuel, more cooling capacity....until you get to the point where you're looking at OTR tractors just to pull your rig through the mountains.

I like this much better. I really enjoy problem solving and engineering, as long as I'm not doing it for a living 14 hours a day.

Has anybody had any luck adding structural reinforcements to the factory hitch, or supplemental square tube further up under the frame?

If I drop the spare and mount it to the back of the TC (Caribou has a side door), I may be able to add a secondary 2.5" receiver further forward for the extension to mate with. That would take all the twisting torque out of the equation for the factory hitch and return the tongue strictly vertical support proposition, albeit with load increased via additional leverage.

I might even be able to build something down from the chassis of the B&W turnover ball gooseneck mount that is currently under the truck.

Between a short hitch extension (no more than 24") and a mild trailer tongue extension (again, no more than 24") I may have a good solution in hand that will allow me do what I want.

If only I had the Caribou TC here in the truck so I could do actual measurements....

meatwagon
Explorer
Explorer
I can only speak from my experience, having 3/4 ton chevy pulling a single axle scaled at 3600 lbs. I bent my stock class v hitch with an 18" ext. I now have the reese titan 2.5" with 24" ext. and added chains with as much lift on them as I could get. I don't I'd try to tow any tandem axle with it. Id either pony up for a Tork lift double truss or fab. up something just as strong. IMHO. The last thing you want is to have it fail and some one get hurt or leave you stranded or loose your load.
LINN
06 chevy xcsb 4x4 2500hd dur./allison(air bags,hellwig sway bar,front hitch receiver,reese titan & 24"ext.hitch,timbren fr. ses., bfg a/t 285/75 16"
13 lance 825(3 battery bank,honda 2500w. generator)
07 rhino/look 7x12 cargo tl.
95 stratus fish&ski

Bedlam
Moderator
Moderator
HJGyswyt uses a lighter bolt on version for a horse trailer behind his truck. I cannot find his thread.

Host Mammoth 11.5 on Ram 5500 HD

username_taken
Explorer
Explorer
btggraphix wrote:
Here it is.....might interest you


Wow - that looks overbuilt to say the least. Could it be returned to stock or is that permanently mounted to the frame?

If I had a chassis cab or flatbed I'd do this in a heartbeat, but I'd have to run without the bumper and/ or bed to get this involved. The truck still has to look somewhat stock to function as a driver unloaded, and I'd like to protect resale by keeping the cutting/ welding/ drilling on the truck frame to a minimum.