Not sure upper stableloads are right for me (UPDATED)

[Sliding-into-ho]

(UPDATE 10/23/2019 here: http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29794168/gotomsg/29988533.cfm#29988533 Safe to say the upper stableloads were NOT causing any issues that I didn't have already, but the stock shocks very likely were. Upgrades continue! Big thanks to the massive wealth of knowledge on this board. In the first page of responses alone, pretty much all the relevant considerations were addressed. You Rock! Thanks also to Torklift who reached out and went the extra mile to help me get dialed in.)

Rig: 2017 F350, SRW, FX4.
Tire sticker 3243lb
Rear GAWR: 7230lb
TC: NL 9-6, 2600 Dry, 2900 Wet

The only suspension mod the dealer installed is upper stable loads. I wanted the lowers, but they said they don't install them because they don't want to deal with the drilling.

I've never hauled a TC before, but plenty of heavy trailers. The stable loads don't feel quite right. If you've ever ridden in a New York taxi cab in the 80's or 90's (you know... the Ford Tauruses and Lincoln Town Cars with shot suspensions), that's sort of the sensation: floaty, bouncy, vague, disconnected.

I wouldn't say there's a lot of sway in terms of magnitude of movement, but when it does sway, it bounces back and forth from side to side.

My hunch is simple: my rig may not be quite heavy enough to warrant full size stable loads, which engage too much of the upper overload spring (lower spring rate) and not enough of the higher spring-rate lower overload. I suspect this is why Torklift unequivocally recommends lower stable loads first. But to be clear, I don't have any experience with this and these are just guesses.

The rear fender is 1-2 inches higher than the front fender, depending on the load, for what it's worth.

Here are a few things that I would try next, but if you feel like you know a more ideal solution, please let me know:

1. Remove stable loads and get a baseline for how the truck handles fully stock. After all, I'm under my door sticker weight (I've removed a propane tank and the heavy rear patio).

2. Shave an inch or two off the stable load blocks

3. Uninstall stable loads and, assuming too much sag/roll, upgrade shocks to rancho adjustable and add Hellwig Big Wig.

4. Last option would be air bags, which would probably only need minimal inflation.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

[sbryan]

Sliding-into-home wrote:

Thanks! yeah, all this ended up being over my budget as well, but it looks like they hold their value quite well. If money gets tight, she'll have to be downgraded, but I've been very frugal for a very long time, and if I don't enjoy some of what I've saved by making memories with my son/wife, all that will be left of me is an inheritance and life insurance policy.

That was our reasoning as well. Been frugal all our lives and at 70, if I don't start living for myself and my family, there won't be much left when I'm gone. Truck campers aren't a "cheap" option but they sure are a lot of fun.

[Bedlam]

Sliding-into-home wrote:
With respect to the stable loads, they are definitely in contact with the spring, even before I have loaded the camper with gear/water. The lower overload gap is essentially gone as well.

The spring pack has changed over the years. The picture in my previous post was from my 2005 F250 with Camper Package. The Camper Package in my model year gave me heavier front suspension, front and rear stabilizer bars and the rear upper overload spring (basically a F350 with heavier front springs and a rear stabilizer but 2" lower rear axle block). My lower overload springs were pre-drilled and the lower StableLoad wedges were just a bolt on installation. There are three wedges per StableLoad allowing for different preload and clearances - In my case, I was able to use all three wedges to get the maximum preload.

[Sliding-into-ho]

sbryan@vtbryans.com wrote:

Sliding-into-home wrote:

Makes sense. I'm guessing if I started with the laundry list, I wouldn't have any (potential) issues. My new Nokian LT2s get here today hopefully. Soon, in any event! (3640lb rating).

The better tires will help. I've had great luck with the Rotiivas in the snow but the LT1's will be even better. Nokia make great tires.

Nice looking rig. Just checked out your profile pic. We liked the Northern Lite a lot but it would have put us over our "budget". The Northstar has been a great winter camper - yours should be as well.

Thanks! yeah, all this ended up being over my budget as well, but it looks like they hold their value quite well. If money gets tight, she'll have to be downgraded, but I've been very frugal for a very long time, and if I don't enjoy some of what I've saved by making memories with my son/wife, all that will be left of me is an inheritance and life insurance policy.

[sbryan]

Sliding-into-home wrote:

Makes sense. I'm guessing if I started with the laundry list, I wouldn't have any (potential) issues. My new Nokian LT2s get here today hopefully. Soon, in any event! (3640lb rating).

The better tires will help. I've had great luck with the Rotiivas in the snow but the LT1's will be even better. Nokia make great tires.

Nice looking rig. Just checked out your profile pic. We liked the Northern Lite a lot but it would have put us over our "budget". The Northstar has been a great winter camper - yours should be as well.

[Bedlam]

The rear shocks are different between F250, F350 and F350 DRW due different axle block heights. If I remember correctly, the F350 DRW and F250 used the same block, but the F350 SRW used a block 2" taller requiring a different shock.

[Sliding-into-ho]

sbryan@vtbryans.com wrote:
I don't have issues with everything I did. I didn't do a progressive install. After a lot of research I decided what I needed to do to make the truck roadworthy with the camper and did it all at once (except for the sway bar and Bilsteins, which I did as soon as I got the truck because the OEM shocks and lack of sway bar were already on my have to fix it list). Everything else was done the day I bought the Igloo. After over a year, trips to Alaska, Florida, Alabama, Canada, etc I can truthfully I wouldn't change a thing.

Do air up your tires to 80 rear and al least 65 front - I run 70 front. And I am a big fan of better tires than the OEM. My truck came with Michelins and the difference between the Michelins and the Nokians is night and day - higher weight rating, stiffer sidewalls and much better tread.

Good luck.

Makes sense. I'm guessing if I started with the laundry list, I wouldn't have any (potential) issues. My new Nokian LT2s get here today hopefully. Soon, in any event! (3640lb rating).

[cheftim]

For Ranchos, I got the Rancho RS999042 RS9000XL for the front. You'll want to check on their site for the rear since it sounds like your truck might have a bit of a lift?

[Sliding-into-ho]

Bedlam wrote:

Adjust the FastGun turnbuckle so when you look through pin/lock hole tension starts once half of the hole is obscured, the remaining closing action should be under tension.

Oh that's right, the tech dude actually did mention that! I'll make sure they're adjusted.

With respect to the stable loads, they are definitely in contact with the spring, even before I have loaded the camper with gear/water. The lower overload gap is essentially gone as well.

With respect to Ranchos, even in the 9000XL range, I saw multiple flavors on whatever web site I was on the other night. Couldn't tell the difference, but a few of them listed different ride heights.

[sbryan]

I don't have issues with everything I did. I didn't do a progressive install. After a lot of research I decided what I needed to do to make the truck roadworthy with the camper and did it all at once (except for the sway bar and Bilsteins, which I did as soon as I got the truck because the OEM shocks and lack of sway bar were already on my have to fix it list). Everything else was done the day I bought the Igloo. After over a year, trips to Alaska, Florida, Alabama, Canada, etc I can truthfully I wouldn't change a thing.

Do air up your tires to 80 rear and al least 65 front - I run 70 front. And I am a big fan of better tires than the OEM. My truck came with Michelins and the difference between the Michelins and the Nokians is night and day - higher weight rating, stiffer sidewalls and much better tread.

Good luck.

[Bedlam]

Sliding-into-home wrote:
Are you sure the fastguns if you have them are adjusted right?
Only thing I know about adjusting fastguns is what the tech at the dealer told me during delivery. Tight enough to just barely require 2 hands to close, and always on the hook that's farthest away. Closing the front ones, I can visually see the cabover drop about a an eighth of an inch as it cinches down on the bed mat. That sound right?

Adjust the FastGun turnbuckle so when you look through pin/lock hole tension starts once half of the hole is obscured, the remaining closing action should be under tension.

[Bedlam]

Sliding-into-home wrote:
Also, since I'm almost certainly going to do the Ranchos, which model number do I want? I see multiple options that will fit my truck.

Look at the Rancho RS9000XL for adjustable damping or the Blistein 5100's for fixed. I preferred the adjustable so I could set both to 5 when unloaded and the rear to 9 when loaded. This persevered my unloaded ride yet gave me better handling when loaded.

[Bedlam]

You want the StableLoad pads to engage the upper spring with the camper loaded. This is what gives you additional stability and less sag. If your camper is so light, that the upper overload spring has no deflection, you actually need a taller pad than your current StableLoad. The lower StableLoad wedges will do less for sag but will engage the main spring pack earlier giving you less sway (this may be why you see some references to installing this product first).

[Sliding-into-ho]

Also, since I'm almost certainly going to do the Ranchos, which model number do I want? I see multiple options that will fit my truck.

[Sliding-into-ho]

A few questions, what air pressure are you running?


55 front and 72 rear (cold). I was thinking about inflating to 65/80.

Are you sure the fastguns if you have them are adjusted right?
Only thing I know about adjusting fastguns is what the tech at the dealer told me during delivery. Tight enough to just barely require 2 hands to close, and always on the hook that's farthest away. Closing the front ones, I can visually see the cabover drop about a an eighth of an inch as it cinches down on the bed mat. That sound right?

@Sbryan, You don't have issues with stable loads only, or with stable loads plus all the other stuff you've upgraded? I would guess if I added all that other stuff, things would be better

@Cheftim, yes, I could see the Rancho upgrade being just the ticket. Cheap and easy to install, so I think that's my next move.

A few other random thoughts:

1. For those with previous generation F-350s, and I'm not sure if it matters, but the 2017+ unloaded suspension is much more compliant than the previous generation. All that to say, what worked for a 2015 might not work exactly the same for a 2017+.

2. I wonder what would happen if I filled up my fresh tank? Low COG, toward the front of the bed. Might help things feel more grounded and stable?

3. with respect to weights, I haven't driven the TC over the scale yet, but from I understand, Northern-Lite is pretty dead-on when it comes to their closet stickers. My closet sticker was 2655 before I removed 100lbs of bumper/patio. Big difference between that an a loaded 'anything' with a slide.

4. with respect to stock suspension/FX4, I realize it's 2" higher in the back, but I was under the impression that payload carrying trucks had this rake angle in anticipation for heavy loads in the bed, and would ideally return to level once fully loaded. In other words, with a full payload, I'm guessing a 2 inch rake is not ideal, and that it would handle better if level. But before I worry too much about that, I need to fully load the camper and make sure I'm on perfectly level ground. Then I'll measure again and things might be much closer.

THANK YOU so much, all. Such a responsive and generous group here!

[cheftim]

I have 2017 F-350 XLT with AF-990. Upper SLs, Firestone air-bags, Ranchos.

When camper goes on, upper SLs engaged a bit. Small amount of air in the bags brings back to level. Shocks on 7-9. Rides like a champ. Tires are usually 80 psi rear 70 psi front.

Waited at first on the Ranchos. After a few rides I installed and they took the taxi ride out for me.

Hope that helps.