Solar Panels

[rodwha]

We have decided to buy a TT as we spend quite a bit on hotels, but we've also figured it would be a good way to reduce our costs for awhile so as to focus on paying down debt and saving $$$ for a home.

I feel adding solar panels would be a great idea but can't seem to find info on how much output would be necessary, and then the price to do so.

At the least I'd like to be able to power the outlets, lights, and fridge, but I'd even want to lower the A/C if possible.

[westend]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi westend,

The quote to replace my Yamaha 3000 sIEB with a Pinella's remote added is close to $3700 Cdn. I keep logs--so I know I ran it less than 100 hours over a 3 year period. $37 per hour for generator cost is a *huge* ouch.

Then I will have the cost of build a cage for it and adding dual receivers on the front of my RV to store the infernal device.

Redoing the solar system and enabling air conditioner use starts to look extremely attractive to me.

However, the insurance folks won't give me a decent cash settlement so I'll be buying another gas guzzler.

westend wrote:
A good 3000W genset is $1000. You know what gas costs. You'll use a few gallons every day if running on generator alone.

Yeah, having your new genset disappear is frustrating. I know you've also had generator issues in the past. I feel for 'ya. 😞

Jim in Denver has proven that a small 5000 BTU A/C can be run for a few hours off solar and an expanded battery bank. If your RV is insulated fairly well, a few hours of A/C may be enough. A lot depends on ambient temps. IIRC, he was using 750 W of panels and more than 400AH of battery when he tried the A/C.

Don, I wonder if you could recoup the cost of a big solar installation and bank upgrade by selling the new Yamaha? Of course, you probably want a genset for those odd times not at the pedestal and needing power.

[pianotuna]

Hi westend,

The quote to replace my Yamaha 3000 sIEB with a Pinella's remote added is close to $3700 Cdn. I keep logs--so I know I ran it less than 100 hours over a 3 year period. $37 per hour for generator cost is a *huge* ouch.

Then I will have the cost of building a cage for it and adding dual receivers on the front of my RV to store the infernal device.

Redoing the solar system and enabling air conditioner use starts to look extremely attractive to me.

However, the insurance folks won't give me a decent cash settlement so I'll be buying another gas guzzler.

westend wrote:
A good 3000W genset is $1000. You know what gas costs. You'll use a few gallons every day if running on generator alone.

[BizmarksMom]

I use, and like, a portable solar panel. It's enough to keep my lights on, electronics charged, and the fridge running. I'm normally camping high enough in the mountains that AC isn't an issue.

My solar set up does not provide enough juice for my furnace or a portable heater. To run those I carry a generator.

[sky_free]

Using a small generator like a Honda 2000i to recharge your batteries takes only 1-2 hours a day depending on how much battery you have. The cost for fuel is almost nothing. Yes, they can run on propane, but I use my portable for other things and prefer to not have to carry around a propane tank. They put out less wattage on propane as well. The advantage is that propane does not age like gasoline.

If you want to power a 13.5K btu A/C you can only really do that with a generator, and for a better experience you will want a 3,000 watt or 2 2000's running in parallel, or a 2,500 watt for an 11K btu A/C. That's going to take a lot more fuel. I used to run my 13.5K A/C on the Honda 2000i but it was super marginal and it would go through the internal tank in about an hour. The A/C was modified with an aftermarket starting capacitor to even make that work.

Running A/C on solar is not practical. Let's say you have a 13.5K A/C that uses 1,200 watts on average. For 8-hours of use that is about 800 amp-hours from 12V batteries. Since 12V deep cycle batteries used in RV's typically max at about 100 AH and you can only use 50% of that without damaging them, you would need at least 8 batteries (assuming they are charging when you are using the A/C), and a solar array of 7 200w solar panels (!).

Solar is very effective if you just need lights, propane fridge, and a moderate amount of recharging laptops and phones. It's completely useless in the shade of course, which is why a lot of us carry a small generator to top off the batteries when needed. A smaller 1000 watt generator is enough for that. The 2000 is needed only if you want to run a microwave or other appliance that uses more power.

[westend]

rodwha wrote:
These generators don't run on propane as well?

So the Backwoods wind turbine isn't a worthwhile accessory?

I figure parking under plenty of shade is a good thing reducing the need for A/C a bit, especially down south. I'm curious about tripods for solar panels. Of course I have no idea what the weight of 400-2000 watt panels would be.

Yup, some generators are setup to run on propane but gasoline is a richer fuel, re: weight of fuel. Also, gasoline seems easier to acquire than propane in some areas.

Wind turbines just don't make enough power to be viable for the typical RV'er. They can also be noisy and difficult to setup. I have one so kind of know what they can do. If you have a permanent site, a wind turbine can charge a battery. Typically, you need to locate it at least 15' above ground and away from any objects that block wind like houses, trees, etc. My propset is 7' in diameter but 10' diameter is a better size for harvesting.

Portable solar panels can be set up with just a set of attached legs, a board in back, or leaned against something stable. A tripod isn't necessary. Transporting multiple panels can be a PITA. The larger ones weigh around 40lbs. and the smaller, 100W panels about half that, 20 lbs. I have a single 235W panel and 300AH of battery capacity. That runs a small 120V fridge, my entertainment devices, and all the 12V stuff like lights, water pump, and fans. My furnace and water heater don't use electricity and all my alarms are self powered.

[rodwha]

These generators don't run on propane as well?

So the Backwoods wind turbine isn't a worthwhile accessory?

I figure parking under plenty of shade is a good thing reducing the need for A/C a bit, especially down south. I'm curious about tripods for solar panels. Of course I have no idea what the weight of 400-2000 watt panels would be.

[Strabo]

rodwha wrote:
What is the average fuel consumption for a generator per day? How long does your tank last?

Our Onan 4k uses 1 gallon every 3 hours @ half power, ambient air temp of 75. Keep oil clean and air filter.

[Strabo]

A new generator is a better idea, it's what we use. Nothing beats full electrical power. Fuel is cheap.

[westend]

I truly like the idea of being self sufficient in things I can and want figures to get an idea of how deep is worthwhile and looking at wind as well in conjunction to solar.

If you break out a pencil and calculator, you'll find that utility power delivered through a cord is going to be the cheapest power available.

When considering alternative energy as either an adjunct or direct replacement for utility power, the largest cost of that alternative energy is going to be the capital to initially buy it and it's operating costs. Solar has little to no operating costs but does have a capital investment. The capital investment is high for the amount of power returned. Generators have larger operating costs but return pretty good power for the investment. Wind should not enter your considerations as there is very little power returned for the capital cost.

Currently, average customer utility rates for Texas is $0.10/KWH. Cost of 1000W of solar is about $1000-$1200 if your labor is free. A good 3000W genset is $1000. You know what gas costs. You'll use a few gallons every day if running on generator alone.

[rodwha]

I assume power at sites has a much higher rate than a homestead. What's average for running everything on power for say a week?

I truly like the idea of being self sufficient in things I can and want figures to get an idea of how deep is worthwhile and looking at wind as well in conjunction to solar.

[rodwha]

What is the average fuel consumption for a generator per day? How long does your tank last?

[rodwha]

Sorry for the lack of response as we went camping...

The idea on saving money with a TT is both to stop renting now and focusing money towards debts and savings for a home. The idea of using the trailer instead of a hotel (Marriott is typical) was secondary.

SWMBO is allergic to most pets and all family have them. We stay up to a month a year, but we'd travel more if we had a TT, especially with internet/cell service.

I have a 2003 F-150 with the 5.4 with very low miles. Figuring I'd add a chip to help with output.

Options are somewhat open but have predominately considered staying here in Texas where we are (near Austin) or going back to SWMBO's hometown of Kansas City.

A lot to consider, and I'll take a look at the expenses of minimal to exceptional solar panel needs. Enough to power everything but the A/C might be more reasonable, especially with power hookups.

'Tis true I am ignorant about TT's as well as solar.

[sky_free]

Don't know your situation because you didn't say, but you should at least do the math if you are really buying a TT to save money on hotels. Things to consider:

Initial cost of trailer +
Running gear (WD hitch, brake controller, etc.) +
Additional fuel for tow vehicle +
Insurance +
Storage +
Upgrades (solar, electronics, etc.) +
Campground fees +
------------------
= much more expensive than hotels

I agree with the generator idea. Solar is an upgrade if you are an enthusiast and are willing to live with the downsides.

[deltabravo]

How much money do you spend on hotels per year?

What kind of tow vehicle do you have?