Sway bars versus RAS versus SS…which one did you choose/why?

[billtex]

Old school, tried/true conventional sway bar (Hellwig/Roadmaster)?

Or new fangled (20 yrs?);RAS
Looks interesting…

2nd question; was it worthwhile and how did it improve your handling?

3rd question; any negative effect on handling/ride?

Edit; adding another option; Super Springs!

To be clear-want to correct for sway/lean/roll/tracking.

Tx, Bill

[ticki2]

ah64id

There seems to be some confusion . Your profile is showing a TT , but you are referencing your Dad's rig . So my question is what truck and what camper does your Dad have that puts 8000# on the rear axle ? Some specs would be helpful .

[billtex]

Butch...good point on the TT...we also pull a 7000# Airstream.

I do not need any suspension mods for towing and will run the airbags at min when towing the AS.
WD hitch takes care of the rest...

A SRW HD truck is going to weigh 3000# unladed...with 8000# on the rear axle...that is one heavy camper as noted...

Anyway...should have the SS on tonight...will test drive this weekend!

Bill

[Butch50]

ah64id,

Per your picture and your profile you are pulling a TT and not carrying a slide in TC. These are 2 different animals. With your trailer there is now way you are putting as much of a load on your truck as the guys with TCs. A TT is only going to put from 10 to 12% on the weight on the tongue. So if your TT is 7000# loaded that is 700 to 840# of tongue weight. What are the size of your bars on your rig. 1000# or 1200# bars? Your tongue weight is in most cases less than 1/3 of the weight that a camper is putting on a truck. Also your weight is being applied at the hitch level where a camper weight is weight is being applied way above the axle and as such there is going to be a tendency to have more sway and more bounce with a TC. With air bags and no contact with the overloads there is going to be more bounce and sway. Drive behind a TC and see how they sway back and forth with just road changes. A truck pulling a TT is not going to have the same issues.

So when you use your experience it is comparing apples to oranges. They are not the same. Bill's truck would handle your TT without any problems also but he is talking TC.

Wow, if your dad has 8,000# on the rear axle of his 3/4 that is more than I have on my 2013 Ram DRW with my camper on. I have 900# less on my rears than that with my NL 10 2 CDSE when it is loaded and ready to go camping. My rear scale weight on the rear is 7140# and that is with an almost 4000# camper back there. So your dad's truck well be lighter in the rear than my truck and yet is 900# heavier than I am so his camper has to weigh over 5000#. What camper brand and size does he have on his truck??

Bedlam is dead on with his explanation of a setup with a TC.

[billtex]

ah64id wrote:

I still don't think it adds up. Any 2500 that cannot maintain level with airbags is over the tire capacity unless the tires have been upgraded.

My dads 2500 takes 80-90 psi with a 2" level and 8K on the rear axle to be level.

If the OP feels he needs additional spring help over airbags on a 2500 there is something he isn't telling us.

If your Dad has 8000 lbs on the rear axle...that is a LOT more than me...and must be one scary ride on a SRW 3/4 ton truck!?

What the heck is he running for tires?

[bedrocker]

Bedlam is right on the money IMO 🙂

[billtex]

Bedlam has it right. I am trying lo level with less psi in bags (and firm up the ride). The bags were great on our last camper; firmed up the ride and got us level. I am 500# heavier with the new camper and find I have to run the bags at 70/95 to get where I want to be. At this pressure the overloads (bottom only on this truck) are lightly engaged but I find the ride to be a bit bouncy compared to the last camper. I have tried pressure from 10 psi all the way to where I am now over the last several weeks. Supersprings (or any mods to spring pack) place the load at 4 points on the chassis (where the designers intended), airbags concentrate the load on 2 points directly above the axle (at least on our truck). This is fine for levelling-not so good when you start loading your spring pack to the point of being in full contact with the bottom overload. Can’t seem to get the ride where I want it to be…so the search for additional support began…and has led to Supersprings. Having just bottom overloads is quite different than having both upper and lower. In fact there are so many variations on suspension setups (even within the same Mfr) that there is no one size fits all answer to suspension upgrades. And then, everyone has different expectations. This is why we come on public forums and ask what others have experienced!

FWIW; I have run airbags for 8 yrs now with the last camper and never had an issue. In fact I am a fan of airbags as they worked so well for us. The bags are not cutting it with the new camper.

The overwhelming response on Supersprings has been that they do firm up the ride, help in leveling the truck, and minimize sway. I could not find a single negative response on Supersprings over 3 different forums. No one reported much effect on unladed ride either (there are several options on setting the pre-load to determine this). While I was not against adding to the spring pack, this option was MUCH more expensive, and there is no way to avoid effecting the ride quality (at least that I could see?).


I have not ruled out sway bar…that may be my thread for next week! But hopefully the progressive nature of the Supersprings will accomplish my goals.

Tires on the truck were upgraded prior to our last x-country trip, we will be due for new tires again before next winter…so there is likely another upgrade in store there as well. Axles have been weighed three times over the last month while adjusting various components. (AAM axle is rated at 10k# +, tires are within 10% of max rating). Will weigh again after installing the SS and loading the camper. As bedlam noted…one step at a time until I my requirements are fulfilled.

Thanks again for all the feedback,
Bill

[AH64ID]

I use my bags to get me level and my ride is not bouncy at all, it's stable and comfortable. If I go above level with the bags the ride gets harsh, if I go below the truck looks funny.

Air pressure or metal spring, the spring rate has to be there. P

The OP never mentioned wanting to use less air, he did list what he wants to fix. I hope it works for him, but looking at what he as told us it was a waste of money and will hurt his empty and loaded ride.

[Bedlam]

I think he wants to be able to use less bag pressure by having more spring.

All the overloads are like what you describe and that is why StableLoads or something with the same function are so widely used. I would have to have 3" of sag before half of my upper overload spring even engages with stock stops. The other half of the spring engages at 3-1/2" sag. They did this to make the overload more progressive for a softer ride, but I'm not going to drive around with my tail 4" lower than stock just get my overloads working. If I just used my bags to level, I would be a bouncing all over because my overloads would be doing nothing...

[AH64ID]

The upper overloads in my 3500 SRW are a joke, they don't come into contact unless the rear axle is at max OEM tire capacity. I have verified this several times on my truck, and I presume this is why dodge remove them on 4th gen 3500 SRW trucks.

With a 1" level I take more air than a stock truck to maintain a level stance, but even then I don't even need 50 psi for 6,400lbs on the rear axle. I know GM suspensions are softer, but not that much.

I still don't think it adds up. Any 2500 that cannot maintain level with airbags is over the tire capacity unless the tires have been upgraded.

My dads 2500 takes 80-90 psi with a 2" level and 8K on the rear axle to be level.

If the OP feels he needs additional spring help over airbags on a 2500 there is something he isn't telling us.

[Bedlam]

The GM 2500 does not have an upper overload spring. To get back to relatively level requires more air bag pressure than what you are used to in your Ram 3500 or my Ford 250 w/ camper package. Adding additional overload spring capacity will help Billtex with leveling his load.

My 250 sits 2" lower than a 350 with the same suspension due to shorter axle blocks. I pretension both upper and lower overload springs sooner with StableLoads so the rear only sags 1-2" instead of 3-4" without StableLoads. Billtex can only do that on his bottoms which would not be enough.

We both agree that a softer suspension will sway more than stiffer one, but I think there two issues to address (sway and sag). Billtex is taking the progressive approach to improve handling and I believe he is doing this smartly.

[AH64ID]

I still can't help but think that something isn't right, either with your weight or expectations.

Airbags provide up to 5,000lbs of load leveling assistance, why do you need more?

The HD SS are also 5,000lbs of leveling capacity right? 10K is leveling capacity is 4500 or 5500 territory.

Are you overloaded or trying to get the truck to empty height?

I still don't see how SS would be your initial go to for sway/load when you already have airbags. What am I missing in your setup? It doesn't make any sense to go SS over a swaybar, they cost more and do less for sway.

Have you weighed your rear axle? If the bags aren't cutting it you stand a good chance of being way overweight on the tires.

I am going on my 3rd year with a sway bar and I haven't driven 1' in the 25K miles plus where it has been anything but an improvement, empty or loaded. The claims are they limit off-road sway, but I have yet to notice it... Then again I am driving 8,500lbs with a 160.5" wheelbase, it's not exactly an off-road setup (but I do lots of miles on uneven back roads where traction and articulation are challenged. I have also done a bit of wheeling in my past and know what' good articulation looks like). The SS will probably limit compression travel far more than a swaybar, as they even have an effect of level compression where a swaybar doesn't. There is no feedback, kickback, or hop empty, just a very stable truck. It is a little more work to get the spare in, but once your use to the sway bar you can use it to your advantage. My spare is 2" taller and 60lb heavier than the OEM spare.

My only complaint about the swaybar is that I didn't do it sooner, it should have been done on day one.

[Bedlam]

I have posted before that the weight should be supported by your leaf springs and fine adjustment by air bags. My truck came with anti-sway bars in the Camper Package, so I never drove it without. My bar extends to the front of the axle and does not in interfere with the spare in any way. The only downside of the bar is articulation in off-road use - I used to lift the rear wheel on the truck when on rough "roads" without the TC and was glad I had a limited slip differential.

[time2roll]

If you are swaying side to side get a sway bar. The biggest.
The rest is primarily for load carrying and load leveling.
Get both as needed. JMHO.

[billtex]

ticki2 wrote:

I would agree with your spring shop , the bottom heavy leaf is not meant to be engaged all the time . It also acts as a limiter for spring rebound . Keeping the overloads ( lightly ) engaged refers to upper overloads on one ton trucks , not the bottom leaf .

I also agree with the previous poster . In order to accomplish your stated goal , sway side to side , a heavy duty sway bar is in order . The springs and things added to them are for carrying the weight. If you add enough to the springs , whether leaves or add on's it will eventually help the sway , but you will have one very stiff ride .

It seems you are trying to accomplish two different things , one is the added weight of the new camper the other is the sway that extra weight is causing . I don't think a single mod will accomplish both . That's my 2 cents . Following along.

Hey Bob...you know I never thought of it that way...our truck doesn't have upper overloads...so it never occurred to me. In any case...it takes a lot of psi to get off the lower overloads with this camper.

You both may be right about the sway. Folks that have added supersprings (or other spring "helpers") will say that it helped reduce sway.
Folks that have installed rear sway bars will say that was their solution.
I chose to address the suspension first. We'll see what happens with sway. The Supersprings arrived via FEDEX today. I'll bolt them on tomorrow and take a test drive this weekend.
To be honest....I am still open to adding a rear sway bar if needed at some point...but I would rather avoid it as they present their own issues (many comments about kicking back when unloaded, access to spare tire, etc). But we'll see.
I am due for new tires before next winter...so that will likely be next...
Stay tuned.

Thanx again...lot's of good feedback,
Bill

[AH64ID]

You also want to keep the lower overloads lightly engaged, they are more effective with axle wrap (which increases with load/power required). About 1-1.5" of suspension squat is optimal, from what I have found, in controlling wrap, rebound rate, and general load handling.