Tongue Weight and Handling

[BubbaChris]

Here's one I want to run by the collective wisdom here. My TT wants to sway above 60mph.

I suspect some of it could be from being light on tongue weight. I was only at 9% when I had it weighed some months ago.

So I want to do some testing before rearranging gear inside. My assumption was I'd need to put the extra weight into the pass-through or next to the bed inside.

But I mentioned this to an RV tech and he said I could just put the extra weight into the very back of my SUV. There's a certain logic to what he's suggesting, but I can't quite believe it is truly equal to putting the weight in the TT.

If I'm doing my tests on a non-camping weekend, I can try it both ways. But my earliest test opportunity may be a camping weekend where just tossing the weight into the TV would simplify life.

So I'm interested in the opinions you nice folks have.

[goducks10]

APT wrote:
I see that Heartland moved the spare tire from my 2011 model. Mine is mounted under the A-frame/battery. That may help. I have the slide out bike rack that is always out with 100 pounds of stuff on it, though.

They changed the A frame for the 2014 26LRSS. Our 2010 NT26LRSS had the A frame running thru the frame and now it's welded underneath. Ours had the spare under the A frame and the 2014 has it on the rear bumper. Maybe it tows better than ours did. Not sure what the reason for the change was. IIRC our TW was 9% from the factory. Interesting though.

[APT]

I see that Heartland moved the spare tire from my 2011 model. Mine is mounted under the A-frame/battery. That may help. I have the slide out bike rack that is always out with 100 pounds of stuff on it, though.

[BubbaChris]

Let's see if I can post the detailed report (for your enjoyment)

[BubbaChris]

I appreciate the attention to detail.

Yes, I made a typo and 7175 is correct.

I have 125lbs until I'm at max for the rear axle.

I think I'll buy some salt for my water softener and put that in the pass-through, and move the spare for my testing.

Although I live in Utah and have 80MPH zones on the interstate just North of us, I'm just looking to get the TT more settled in the 60-65MPH range. With my ST tires, I'm not looking to press my luck.

Long term I could see a stronger TV in my future, but for now I'd like to make our current rig as comfortable as possible (our dogs ride in crates in the SUV).

One of the big advantages of the Andersen WDH is my DW will hook everything up when I need to work half-days on our getaway Fridays. It truly pays me back for the times she made me go very slowly through our process/list with her involvement.

[Wishin]

Ron Gratz wrote:

BubbaChris wrote:
TT total - 6,175
Tongue weight - 575
TV w/o TT - 6,600
TV w/ TT - 7,715
Rear Axle w/o TT - 3400
Rear Axle w/TT - 4125
Front Axle w/o TT - 3200
Front Axle w/ TT - 3050

Your scales data indicate a tongue weight of 653# with 78# being transferred to the TT's axles.
The indicated tongue weight percentage is 653/6175 = 10.6%.

Before taking any steps toward increasing the tongue weight, you should check the rear GAWR value listed on the driver's door edge or pillar.
I think the measured 4125# is pretty close to the limit.

For your 2013 Expedition, Ford specifies that you should adjust the WDH to eliminate about 50% of the front end rise -- which implies you should restore about 50% of the load which was removed from the front end when the TT was attached with no WD applied.

Ron

I think Ron is correct in his calculation. FYI, you have a typo. Your TV w/ TT should be 7175, not 7715. Since your vehicle gained 575 with the weight dist. engaged, your actual tongue weight is higher, like Ron said, some weight was transferred back to the travel trailer axles which he calculated for you. You may need more TW to be stable, but that may also put you over your axle capacity. Personally, I'd try increasing the tongue weight even if it meant over loading the vehicle a little. At least as a test. Don't use the rear rack and move the spare to the front compartment.

Long term, since you boon-dock, perhaps adding a battery or three to the front A-frame will benefit your camping as well as your stability. You may find you need a tow vehicle with more payload in the long run.

[Ron_Gratz]

BubbaChris wrote:
TT total - 6,175
Tongue weight - 575
TV w/o TT - 6,600
TV w/ TT - 7,715
Rear Axle w/o TT - 3400
Rear Axle w/TT - 4125
Front Axle w/o TT - 3200
Front Axle w/ TT - 3050

Your scales data indicate a tongue weight of 653# with 78# being transferred to the TT's axles.
The indicated tongue weight percentage is 653/6175 = 10.6%.

Before taking any steps toward increasing the tongue weight, you should check the rear GAWR value listed on the driver's door edge or pillar.
I think the measured 4125# is pretty close to the limit.

For your 2013 Expedition, Ford specifies that you should adjust the WDH to eliminate about 50% of the front end rise -- which implies you should restore about 50% of the load which was removed from the front end when the TT was attached with no WD applied.

Ron

[eluwak]

APT wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
Typical Northtrail.

Mine must be atypical. While I always use a WDH, my buddy towed my TT with a dually tongue on ball which was stable at 75mph.

There is a lot of experienced guesses going on. I would verify the weights - 3 passes before replacing tires, WDH, etc.

Mine was unstable until moved my spare into the front compartment and added a little more weight still. I'm near 15% and it tows like a dream.

[Nvr2loud]

bguy wrote:
In crease your trailer nose weight but make sure you re-adjust the hitch to put more weight on your front TV axle as well. You're already down 150lb there. Another point to remember is if the TT is nose down by very much you are shortening the wheelbase and effectively changing the weight balance of the trailer on a tandem set up.

What do you mean shortening the wheelbase when the trailer nose is pointing down?

[bguy]

In crease your trailer nose weight but make sure you re-adjust the hitch to put more weight on your front TV axle as well. You're already down 150lb there. Another point to remember is if the TT is nose down by very much you are shortening the wheelbase and effectively changing the weight balance of the trailer on a tandem set up.

[APT]

Fill up that front storage! Outside and front wardrobe!

[Nvr2loud]

Like others have said, look at tire pressure as well as tongue weight.

My Sierra suggests 36 PSI on the 20" factory wheels, the tire maximum pressure is 44 PSI. When I run heavy, I increase to the 44 PSI and the truck does not have any sway.

[BubbaChris]

Thanks for the input so far.

I'm using an Andersen hitch, which has integrated sway control.

When we were weighed we did the best to simulate being ready for boondocking. That meant a full FW tank, my rear rack pulled out and some gear loaded back there (roughly 50-lbs worth) in addition to moving the spare further from center.

Tire pressures - TT always at spec on 50psi. TV rear tires get pumped up to 42psi (from the recommended 35psi).

Rather than use CAT scales, we worked with a guy who has his own 2 scales and has a business doing this at rallies.

TT total - 6,175
Tongue weight - 575
TV w/o TT - 6,600
TV w/ TT - 7,715
Rear Axle w/o TT - 3400
Rear Axle w/TT - 4125
Front Axle w/o TT - 3200
Front Axle w/ TT - 3050

At the time the trailer was weighed, the Andersen mounts on the tongue had slipped and I wasn't able to add more tension (to eliminate the 150lbs lost off the front axle). Since then we've typically set it up with 5 turns.

FW tank seems to be directly above the axles, gray and black in the back. So adding water doesn't change the balance much.

Thanks so much for weighing in on this! (pun intended)

[Wishin]

APT wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
Typical Northtrail.

Mine must be atypical. While I always use a WDH, my buddy towed my TT with a dually tongue on ball which was stable at 75mph.

There is a lot of experienced guesses going on. I would verify the weights - 3 passes before replacing tires, WDH, etc.

I agree completely, go weigh the truck and trailer combo before you do anything. Until you have facts, you're just guessing.

You want the weight by axle sets. Front truck axle, rear truck axle, trailer axles together. There are sections to the scales if you are at a CAT scales, or even some other scales. You want all axles weights with each pass through the scales.

Weigh the entire rig 3 times. Once with just the truck, loaded for camping. 2nd time with the trailer hooked up but no weight distribution, the 3rd time with the trailer hooked up but with your weight distribution also functioning, just like you would normally travel. With these measurements, you can calculate your axle loads, tongue weight, trailer weight, vehicle weight, and proper set-up of your weight distribution system.

[APT]

goducks10 wrote:
Typical Northtrail.

Mine must be atypical. While I always use a WDH, my buddy towed my TT with a dually tongue on ball which was stable at 75mph.

There is a lot of experienced guesses going on. I would verify the weights - 3 passes before replacing tires, WDH, etc.