Towing a Travel Trailer with a Pontiac G8

[syndrome85]

Hello all. I have a general question about towing a 2,600 lb (when completely empty) light weight travel trailer with a 2009 Pontiac G8. The manual on the G8 says about towing: It should never weigh more than 2,000 lbs. But even that can be too heavy. I tried to explain this to the person that has this set up, but they told me that has to do with a class 1 trailer hitch. He insisted that his towing setup (hardware) is well equipped to handle the trailer, cargo (both in the trailer and in the car), 2 adult passengers, and an infant. My concern is that they are putting their kid (and themselves) in serious danger by towing this trailer with the current set up. I wanted to know if anyone else has experience with this or with dealing with someone like this. The G8 has a brake controller installed and the tongue weight on the trailer is 312 lbs according to the trailer manual. Can someone please let me know if i am way too worried about this? Do you think this is a safe set up? Is there something else i am missing? Please let me know.

[Bumpyroad]

it must be kept in mind that the only thing the lame stream press is interested in is that first photo of the rV on it's side, etc. to draw readership. what occurs months/years later, either in court or out of court settlement is never mentioned.
but this thread reminds me of all of those "can I town this ... with my ..." and a response will include suggesting converting their f 150 to a f 550 by spending $500 at J.C. Whitney.
bumpy

[Shal36]

In most accidents, if there are injuries, you can expect an attorney to be involved. The choice of attorney probably comes down to who advertises in that market. I doubt plaintiffs are thinking, "that RV was overweight...I'd better contact a special attorney for this." The attorney doesn't care if you were overweight, underweight, towing with the refrigerator running on propane, towing with a full tank of fresh water, or if you had your outdoor speakers playing while driving....they want to recover the maximum amount. Maybe it's easier for them to settle for the max if they can show gross negligence to the insurance company.

You cause an accident, you're likely to get sued. That's why you have insurance. That lawsuit will likely seek your policy limit and the issue will likely be settled out of court. If you have easily attached assets, the attorney may go for that, too, but the effort to do so probably only makes it worthwhile if there's a lot of unprotected assets.

This recurring topic thread lead me to do a little research. While the lawyer issue seems to always come up in these threads, what rarely comes up is the possibility of an involuntary manslaughter charge should someone be killed as a direct result of gross negligence. The examples I have found involved improper hitching and lack of safety chains that led to a trailer coming loose and hitting someone (usually a pedestrian or bicyclist). In those examples, a manslaughter charge wasn't always filed by the DA as the DA is the one who has to make that decision.

[Ralph_Cramden]

soren wrote:

Shal36 wrote:

Fireballsocal wrote:
Should he have an accident where someone else is hurt, any lawyer will point to the tow ratings on the car and say he was overloaded and negligent. He will be found partially, if not completely at fault and he might even run the risk of his insurance not covering him. .

If you are at fault, even if within tow ratings, the lawyer is going to go for the max on your policy limits. Your insurance company can try to deny coverage, but the plantif's lawyer has a vested interest in making them cover the incident. They can try to go after your assets if you have any, but if you structure things correctly, that stuff is difficult to get to and most people have more debt than assets. I suppose you could be found criminally negligent and face criminal penalties, but in civil court, there's only so much they can get and they're getting that from your insurance

There are two undying universal truths that will appear on this forum until the end of time. First, if you ever have an accident, and you are using any piece of equipment that isn't 100% RV.net towing police approved, some incredibly talented and knowledgeable "world famous recreational towing ligator" will magically appear, and sue you for everything you are worth. You will lose everything, and your great grandchildren will still be paying off the debt in 2075.

Second, is the perennial favorite. If you don't turn your propane fridge off before you enter a gas station, you WILL die a horrible flaming death.

Then there is reality.....................

I agree with you 100% on both....with a disclaimer.

Let a death be involved and you're at fault, and you then stand a fair chance of meeting up with the world famous recreational towing litigator.

We had a worker commit suicide by launching himself off the roof of a 22 story building a few years back we were building. His wife (who had a lot to do with him sailing himself off the building in the first place) sued us (General Contractor), the owners, the company the individual worked for, and a slew of others to the tune of 16 million for "wrongful death". When it finally went to Jury trial 3 years later it was thrown out on the first day. In the Judges own words. "Quite clearly a suicide, case dismissed". By then everyone and their Insurance companies were all out a few million in legal fees regardless.

When I was pulled in to some of the depositions, I could not believe some of the stuff the litigators had dug up. They actually knew more about me than I did myself I think. Don't think something like what you reference in your very funny post can not happen, as I assure you it can.

[Bumpyroad]

sure, go for it. I mean, what's the worst that can happen?
bumpy

[Huntindog]

EstorilM wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
In fact it has a tranny cooler in the radiator.

Ummm. As far as I know, all auto tranny vehicles have an tranny cooler in the radiator!

It has a serious shortcoming for towing service.
It can only cool down to the temp of the antifreeze!
Towing tranny coolers are in addition to that. They cool by airflow OUTSIDE and before the radiator.

Generally speaking, most newer high-performance automatic transmissions will operate at-or-above coolant temperatures. I've had older vehicles with external trans coolers, and all the newer versions of said vehicles (with higher all-around ratings) now have integrated coolers.

Assuming your coolant is a set temperature (ie. obviously regulated by tstat to stay exactly the same) then clearly everything was designed for the trans to operate at the same temp as well.

If you start bumping up coolant temps that's an entirely different issue / system, but generally that's not a problem.

Trans coolers were a big deal in mid-late 90's and early 00's trucks / SUVs etc, but it's quickly becoming cliche now. At least from what I've seen / experienced.

Some things have changed over the years. 180-195 Tstats used to be the norm. Now 215 or even higher is the norm.
Tranny temps are best kept below 200 for longest life. That hasn't changed. My 2011 Dmax Allison combo runs tranny temps in the 160s.

You cannot cool a tranny that much with a cooler inside the radiator.

[Bird_Freak]

I asked my brother about these horrible litigators that jump up to sue folks are always talking about here. He just retired from Allstate as a claims adjuster trainer. He told me he has never seen it happen like that in 38 years he has been training new adjusters. Too many doom and gloom people here and I can't tell you how many times ive been blown up at gas stations either.

[Fireballsocal]

Do any of you deny there is culpability while driving an overloaded tow vehicle and being involved in an accident?

[danimal53]

TurnThePage wrote:

soren wrote:
There are two undying universal truths that will appear on this forum until the end of time. First, if you ever have an accident, and you are using any piece of equipment that isn't 100% RV.net towing police approved, some incredibly talented and knowledgeable "world famous recreational towing ligator" will magically appear, and sue you for everything you are worth. You will lose everything, and your great grandchildren will still be paying off the debt in 2075.

Second, is the perennial favorite. If you don't turn your propane fridge off before you enter a gas station, you WILL die a horrible flaming death.

Then there is reality.....................

LOL! Way too true, but you left out a few. Here's to reality!

****, i've died way too many horrible flaming deaths...

[TurnThePage]

soren wrote:
There are two undying universal truths that will appear on this forum until the end of time. First, if you ever have an accident, and you are using any piece of equipment that isn't 100% RV.net towing police approved, some incredibly talented and knowledgeable "world famous recreational towing ligator" will magically appear, and sue you for everything you are worth. You will lose everything, and your great grandchildren will still be paying off the debt in 2075.

Second, is the perennial favorite. If you don't turn your propane fridge off before you enter a gas station, you WILL die a horrible flaming death.

Then there is reality.....................

LOL! Way too true, but you left out a few. Here's to reality!

[soren]

Shal36 wrote:

Fireballsocal wrote:
Should he have an accident where someone else is hurt, any lawyer will point to the tow ratings on the car and say he was overloaded and negligent. He will be found partially, if not completely at fault and he might even run the risk of his insurance not covering him. .

If you are at fault, even if within tow ratings, the lawyer is going to go for the max on your policy limits. Your insurance company can try to deny coverage, but the plantif's lawyer has a vested interest in making them cover the incident. They can try to go after your assets if you have any, but if you structure things correctly, that stuff is difficult to get to and most people have more debt than assets. I suppose you could be found criminally negligent and face criminal penalties, but in civil court, there's only so much they can get and they're getting that from your insurance

There are two undying universal truths that will appear on this forum until the end of time. First, if you ever have an accident, and you are using any piece of equipment that isn't 100% RV.net towing police approved, some incredibly talented and knowledgeable "world famous recreational towing ligator" will magically appear, and sue you for everything you are worth. You will lose everything, and your great grandchildren will still be paying off the debt in 2075.

Second, is the perennial favorite. If you don't turn your propane fridge off before you enter a gas station, you WILL die a horrible flaming death.

Then there is reality.....................

[Shal36]

Fireballsocal wrote:
Should he have an accident where someone else is hurt, any lawyer will point to the tow ratings on the car and say he was overloaded and negligent. He will be found partially, if not completely at fault and he might even run the risk of his insurance not covering him. .

If you are at fault, even if within tow ratings, the lawyer is going to go for the max on your policy limits. Your insurance company can try to deny coverage, but the plantif's lawyer has a vested interest in making them cover the incident. They can try to go after your assets if you have any, but if you structure things correctly, that stuff is difficult to get to and most people have more debt than assets. I suppose you could be found criminally negligent and face criminal penalties, but in civil court, there's only so much they can get and they're getting that from your insurance

[Bumpyroad]

syndrome85 wrote:

Bird Freak wrote:
I know the car also. performance sedan. The hitch would be my only concern. Could be your brother knows what he is doing and you should myob before there are hurt feelings.

I seriously doubt he knows 100% what he is doing but i see your point. That's the reason why i posted the question originally, I wanted to get other people's opinions on the situation. I'm glad other people know the car better than I do especially when the manual says 2,000 lbs maximum towing.

I doubt he knows 10% of what he is doing. if you go on a joint rv trip, put the kids in your RV and let him kill himself.
bumpy

[Fireballsocal]

Should he have an accident where someone else is hurt, any lawyer will point to the tow ratings on the car and say he was overloaded and negligent. He will be found partially, if not completely at fault and he might even run the risk of his insurance not covering him. The car was rated by engineers and once he overloads those ratings, no matter his upgrades, he is hauling more than what the car is rated for.

Big American sedans used to be rated for moderate towing but once SAE J2807 standards came about for towing in 2012, I think all the sedans were heavily downgraded.

[syndrome85]

Bird Freak wrote:
I know the car also. performance sedan. The hitch would be my only concern. Could be your brother knows what he is doing and you should myob before there are hurt feelings.

I seriously doubt he knows 100% what he is doing but i see your point. That's the reason why i posted the question originally, I wanted to get other people's opinions on the situation. I'm glad other people know the car better than I do especially when the manual says 2,000 lbs maximum towing.

[syndrome85]

westend wrote:
Is this a RWD or FWD vehicle?

RWD