Ford's answers to the NHTSA 6.7 Investigation

[ricatic]

There was a request for a link to Ford's answer's to the NHTSA investigation posted on a previous thread, since closed. Here is the link:

Ford's NHTSA Answers to the 6.7 investigation

This PDF is over 20 pages long. There are some interesting statements contained in the documents. My favorite is the one where Ford says they buy the pump from Bosch as a "black box" and do no testing of the component. It is closely followed by the tantamount admission that the pump will not provide a long service life when exposed to the poor lubricity fuel found in the US. You will have to do the math using the sales versus failure tables for the US and Canadian trucks. Eye opening difference to say the least...

Regards

[Huntindog]

NewsW wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

Actually I had already tried that. I just tried again. The links to quote an additional vehicle are not working. I just tried for a new quote, and into the process, it stopped me with a message saying that this was for new customers only, please click here to continue....Clicking here took me back to the page with the broken links....I did fill out their survey complaining about the broken links.:M

Is it possible to talk to a live person over a plain old telephone system, hopefully not in India, to help?

Yes, I made some minor changes about a week ago. It takes a little time and talking to a couple of different people. Not in the mood for the phone tonight.

[durallymax]

BenK wrote:

Wonder how much more you folks would pay to NOT have this problem(s)
with the fuel pumps...that is a question they should also be asking...

Lets see. $8,400 diesel option added to $40,000 base truck with no frills. Sure whats more money, by 2020 we should hit 6 figures for diesel trucks.

There comes a point where the cost gets so high that the funds dry up to develop better products.

There is no cost advantage to owning a diesel for most people. You need to do some serious hauling, or haul for a lot of miles to even justify it.

I'm Rick James wrote:

I ran jet fuel in my '02 7.3 for years without problems. The difference between my 7.3, your Navy tow tractors, and current generation trucks is simply fuel pressure. Our older equipment was more tolerant of poor fuel simply due to the relatively low fuel pressure requirements of the engines. The lubricity is not as critical for lower fuel pressure pumps.

A few more differences than fuel pressure.

The 7.3 runs on HUEI. Fuel is supplied to the injectors under low pressure (4,000psi IIRC), a high pressure oil pump is then used to fire the injector (2?,???psi IIRC).

So yes your system runs at the high pressures of the CP3 common rail setups but off of a different concept.

[NewsW]

Huntindog wrote:

Actually I had already tried that. I just tried again. The links to quote an additional vehicle are not working. I just tried for a new quote, and into the process, it stopped me with a message saying that this was for new customers only, please click here to continue....Clicking here took me back to the page with the broken links....I did fill out their survey complaining about the broken links.:M

Is it possible to talk to a live person over a plain old telephone system, hopefully not in India, to help?

[Huntindog]

milsuperdoc wrote:

milsuperdoc wrote:

NewsW wrote:

Huntindog wrote:


I thought about all the varibles that insurers usually use when setting rates, but most all of them shouldn't really affect the MBI premium. The expected payouts wouldn't have much bearing on tickets, accidents, credit rating etc..

There is a macro variable that is used to see if you are a "claim happy" client.

That is the reason no minor to moderate claim should ever be filed.

:B


Things ya pick up with several major insurance actuarial science research centers next door.

Like I stated before, I never had prior insurance claims on any one of my vehicles, and never had any traffic violation. I have excellent credit rating above 800 by all three major agencies. I got a quote for a F-350 yet to be delivered (to be delivered next week). If you guys are interested in an experiment, you can log onto Geico website and get a quote. MBI comes up as the very last question. But it would be interesting if Huntingdog can log in and get an experimental quote for F-350 Dually 2012 and see how much of MBI difference you'd see.

Huntingdog, are you up for a little experiment? Please report back to us.

Actually I had already tried that. I just tried again. The links to quote an additional vehicle are not working. I just tried for a new quote, and into the process, it stopped me with a message saying that this was for new customers only, please click here to continue....Clicking here took me back to the page with the broken links....I did fill out their survey complaining about the broken links.:M

[45Ricochet]

I'm Rick James wrote:

NewsW wrote:

Show me a patent --- and I will 99.0% of the time, 19 times out of 20, find a way around it for you.

For a fee.

Looks like basic math isn't your strong suit. Are you able to find a way around it 99% of the time, or 95% of the time "19 times out of 20"?

You beat me to it Rick. Something started to smell around here, just recently too.

[milsuperdoc]

milsuperdoc wrote:

NewsW wrote:

Huntindog wrote:


I thought about all the varibles that insurers usually use when setting rates, but most all of them shouldn't really affect the MBI premium. The expected payouts wouldn't have much bearing on tickets, accidents, credit rating etc..

There is a macro variable that is used to see if you are a "claim happy" client.

That is the reason no minor to moderate claim should ever be filed.

:B


Things ya pick up with several major insurance actuarial science research centers next door.

Like I stated before, I never had prior insurance claims on any one of my vehicles, and never had any traffic violation. I have excellent credit rating above 800 by all three major agencies. I got a quote for a F-350 yet to be delivered (to be delivered next week). If you guys are interested in an experiment, you can log onto Geico website and get a quote. MBI comes up as the very last question. But it would be interesting if Huntingdog can log in and get an experimental quote for F-350 Dually 2012 and see how much of MBI difference you'd see.

Huntingdog, are you up for a little experiment? Please report back to us.

[milsuperdoc]

NewsW wrote:

Huntindog wrote:


I thought about all the varibles that insurers usually use when setting rates, but most all of them shouldn't really affect the MBI premium. The expected payouts wouldn't have much bearing on tickets, accidents, credit rating etc..

There is a macro variable that is used to see if you are a "claim happy" client.

That is the reason no minor to moderate claim should ever be filed.

:B


Things ya pick up with several major insurance actuarial science research centers next door.

[FishOnOne]

I'm Rick James wrote:

NewsW wrote:

Show me a patent --- and I will 99.0% of the time, 19 times out of 20, find a way around it for you.

For a fee.

Looks like basic math isn't your strong suit. Are you able to find a way around it 99% of the time, or 95% of the time "19 times out of 20"?

I think Gearloose forgot to pencil this on the back of an envelope.

I'm still whistling

[I_m_Rick_James]

NewsW wrote:

Show me a patent --- and I will 99.0% of the time, 19 times out of 20, find a way around it for you.

For a fee.

Looks like basic math isn't your strong suit. Are you able to find a way around it 99% of the time, or 95% of the time "19 times out of 20"?

[NewsW]

hawkeye-08 wrote:
patented shoe...

DFP6 roller cam shoe mechanism optimized for reduced torque, dynamic mass and noise via the patented Delphi
static shoe guide

Just a note for patent trolls.

I have rarely seen a patent that cannot be gotten around (with sufficient time and R&D) or, if the risk is accepted, invalidated by prior art.

The problem is usually it is not worth the trouble to do that --- much better just to cross license (if the patent is not owned by a pure play patent troll) rather than to fight.


Show me a patent --- and I will 99.0% of the time, 19 times out of 20, find a way around it for you.

For a fee.

[NewsW]

Huntindog wrote:


I thought about all the varibles that insurers usually use when setting rates, but most all of them shouldn't really affect the MBI premium. The expected payouts wouldn't have much bearing on tickets, accidents, credit rating etc..

There is a macro variable that is used to see if you are a "claim happy" client.

That is the reason no minor to moderate claim should ever be filed.

:B


Things ya pick up with several major insurance actuarial science research centers next door.

[Huntindog]

milsuperdoc wrote:

Huntindog wrote:
I saw a post on another forum where Gieco is charging 66.99 for 6 months for MBI on Ford 6.7s....My GM is only 16.96 for the same coverage.

While both of these premiums are reasonable, there is a huge difference. Gieco must be aware of Fords warranty policy and is pricing their coverage accordingly.

I posted that on FTE. I am expecting delivery in about a week...2012 F-350. I'm not sure if the difference in MBI for Ford 6.7 and your GM D/A is because of the residence state...or past track records of each truck brand. For the record, I'm a very safe driver with no prior records of any traffic violation nor accidents. 😉

I thought about all the varibles that insurers usually use when setting rates, but most all of them shouldn't really affect the MBI premium. The expected payouts wouldn't have much bearing on tickets, accidents, credit rating etc..

[milsuperdoc]

Huntindog wrote:
I saw a post on another forum where Gieco is charging 66.99 for 6 months for MBI on Ford 6.7s....My GM is only 16.96 for the same coverage.

While both of these premiums are reasonable, there is a huge difference. Gieco must be aware of Fords warranty policy and is pricing their coverage accordingly.

I posted that on FTE. I am expecting delivery in about a week...2012 F-350. I'm not sure if the difference in MBI for Ford 6.7 and your GM D/A is because of the residence state...or past track records of each truck brand. For the record, I'm a very safe driver with no prior records of any traffic violation nor accidents. 😉

[NewsW]

Huntindog wrote:

From the way the agent was talking when I bought policy, MBI is a fairly new product for Gieco. I think that they are the only company offering it so far. There is a age restriction. The vehicle has to be pretty new 15-18 months ( I forget exactly) to qualify for enrollment.
That would likely leave out the 6.0-6.4s.

Coverage is for 7 years or 100,000 miles.

Need to see the policy.

Their bet:

Bumper-to-bumper is 36

Emissions to 60/100

What other things can break down after these two coverages are exhausted?

Not much.

Additional bet: monthly payment, and if you cancel, miss, they cancel you... they collect for years (given the age restriction) before they payout.

Say they collect premiums for age of vehicle (year 3, 4, 5) got 3 good years of premiums for doing nothing.

then a risk in year 6, terminates in year 7 for sure.

And people trade in cars, have accidents, etc. that shorten the vehicle life --- and if there is a change of ownership etc. the MBI is probably non transferable.

Front load premium, rear load liability.

Hmmmm

I think the financials look so good I'd underwrite it!


Somebody.. post the actual policy... let me get some actuarial goons onto it and see what the profit margins are on this product.

[BenK]

NewsW wrote:

BenK wrote:
With my limited experience, still think a gear pump the best for this application

Think Bosch is stuck protecting their patents and that piston pump.

Screw pumps can provide much higher PSI's and GPH's 24/7 and deal with all kinds
of cruddy fluids.

If I recall the cost factors for a screw pump right... you are into mucho mooola.

The part have to sell for $200 or so x factory.

That means Bosch can afford to spend $50 per unit to make it.

Yup, but there might be some out there with less margin than the industrial
level of duty cycle.

Also, my background is industrial, so the margins and duty cycle are
mandated in the 24/7 range and some times 200%-300% duty for short
time periods

But IMHO, think penny wise pound foolishness playing too large a part here

Wonder how much more you folks would pay to NOT have this problem(s)
with the fuel pumps...that is a question they should also be asking...