Mar-01-2012 05:53 AM
Apr-23-2012 07:11 PM
BenK wrote:NinerBikes wrote:4x4ord wrote:
Am I missing something NewsW? It's not going to take much oomph to move 2.5 gals of fuel per hour even if it is at 29000 psi. Less than 1 HP anyway.
A motor capable of making 240 HP is going to suck down more that 2.5 gallons per hour, just in pressurizing fuel and sending it back/bleeding it off to the fuel tank hot. Same for one capable of 400 HP like the Ford 6.7.
You have to understand the association with both GPH and PSI/BAR
Maybe you would understand a ICE with 7.5:1 compression ratio vs one
with 20:1 compression ratio, both with the same displacement
Apr-23-2012 06:29 PM
NewsW wrote:
That finger in the photo... did it get a squirt of diesel fuel at 30,000psi?
Apr-23-2012 06:20 PM
Apr-23-2012 01:30 PM
Apr-23-2012 10:10 AM
BenK wrote:NewsW wrote:NinerBikes wrote:NewsW wrote:
Niner:
Can you do some sleuthing on the belt drive?
http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Drive/Timing_belts.html
Use the table in the above link, do some measurements and you should be able to get a rough idea of how much energy / hp is being expended to drive the pump as per the chart: "Initial selection of Timing Belt ".
The pump using a timing belt is a good indication that it takes quite a bit of ommph to move fuel.
That will feed into a guess as to how much energy / heat is being dissipated into the fuel / engine area just from pumping the fuel.
14mm pitch, 30mm wide, and I know the pulley has a 3:2 drive ratio, overhead cam driven at 1/2 crank speed, HPFP at 2/3 crank speed. Redline at 5500 rpm. On my 2.0L the pulley speed is 1:1 5500rpm, same measurements on the belt. 30mm wide 14mm pitch. belt good for 130k miles. if you average 35 mph about 3700 hours life, might be higher than that to account for idle time in city traffic.
In both cases, you got all that energy dissipated into a single piston.
What is not released as mechanical energy (moving fuel) got to go as heat.
Double the load for dual piston 4.2 vs. 4.1
Use a safety factor of 100% (2X) on the chart to start....
That is a lot of energy.
Logical next step --- if one has instrumentation.
Measure fuel intake temp and how it changes as the tank gets empty on a real hot day, high rpm, high engine output.
Measure fuel exhaust temp.
HPFP temp in several different places.
Also a very bad idea using the timing belt. Thought it was the
accessory belt, not the valve timing belt
What is the belt's replacement requirement?
Apr-23-2012 09:28 AM
NewsW wrote:NinerBikes wrote:NewsW wrote:
Niner:
Can you do some sleuthing on the belt drive?
http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Drive/Timing_belts.html
Use the table in the above link, do some measurements and you should be able to get a rough idea of how much energy / hp is being expended to drive the pump as per the chart: "Initial selection of Timing Belt ".
The pump using a timing belt is a good indication that it takes quite a bit of ommph to move fuel.
That will feed into a guess as to how much energy / heat is being dissipated into the fuel / engine area just from pumping the fuel.
14mm pitch, 30mm wide, and I know the pulley has a 3:2 drive ratio, overhead cam driven at 1/2 crank speed, HPFP at 2/3 crank speed. Redline at 5500 rpm. On my 2.0L the pulley speed is 1:1 5500rpm, same measurements on the belt. 30mm wide 14mm pitch. belt good for 130k miles. if you average 35 mph about 3700 hours life, might be higher than that to account for idle time in city traffic.
In both cases, you got all that energy dissipated into a single piston.
What is not released as mechanical energy (moving fuel) got to go as heat.
Double the load for dual piston 4.2 vs. 4.1
Use a safety factor of 100% (2X) on the chart to start....
That is a lot of energy.
Logical next step --- if one has instrumentation.
Measure fuel intake temp and how it changes as the tank gets empty on a real hot day, high rpm, high engine output.
Measure fuel exhaust temp.
HPFP temp in several different places.
Apr-23-2012 09:25 AM
NinerBikes wrote:4x4ord wrote:
Am I missing something NewsW? It's not going to take much oomph to move 2.5 gals of fuel per hour even if it is at 29000 psi. Less than 1 HP anyway.
A motor capable of making 240 HP is going to suck down more that 2.5 gallons per hour, just in pressurizing fuel and sending it back/bleeding it off to the fuel tank hot. Same for one capable of 400 HP like the Ford 6.7.
Apr-23-2012 03:43 AM
NinerBikes wrote:NewsW wrote:
Niner:
Can you do some sleuthing on the belt drive?
http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Drive/Timing_belts.html
Use the table in the above link, do some measurements and you should be able to get a rough idea of how much energy / hp is being expended to drive the pump as per the chart: "Initial selection of Timing Belt ".
The pump using a timing belt is a good indication that it takes quite a bit of ommph to move fuel.
That will feed into a guess as to how much energy / heat is being dissipated into the fuel / engine area just from pumping the fuel.
14mm pitch, 30mm wide, and I know the pulley has a 3:2 drive ratio, overhead cam driven at 1/2 crank speed, HPFP at 2/3 crank speed. Redline at 5500 rpm. On my 2.0L the pulley speed is 1:1 5500rpm, same measurements on the belt. 30mm wide 14mm pitch. belt good for 130k miles. if you average 35 mph about 3700 hours life, might be higher than that to account for idle time in city traffic.
Apr-22-2012 11:07 PM
4x4ord wrote:
Am I missing something NewsW? It's not going to take much oomph to move 2.5 gals of fuel per hour even if it is at 29000 psi. Less than 1 HP anyway.
Apr-22-2012 11:01 PM
NewsW wrote:
Niner:
Can you do some sleuthing on the belt drive?
http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Drive/Timing_belts.html
Use the table in the above link, do some measurements and you should be able to get a rough idea of how much energy / hp is being expended to drive the pump as per the chart: "Initial selection of Timing Belt ".
The pump using a timing belt is a good indication that it takes quite a bit of ommph to move fuel.
That will feed into a guess as to how much energy / heat is being dissipated into the fuel / engine area just from pumping the fuel.
Apr-22-2012 09:14 PM
Apr-22-2012 07:38 PM
Apr-19-2012 08:44 PM
Jarlaxle wrote:
How big a bill is that? I'd guess north of $10K, minimum.
Apr-19-2012 08:01 PM
Apr-19-2012 05:37 PM
NewsW wrote:
Alright, while you are trading here...
I will be gone for most of this coming week... busy talking shop about fuel.