Power Pedestal Connections

[briansue]

We read an online RV newsletter that comes out each Saturday. Electricity is often a topic of discussion. Today there was a survey to try to tell what percent of readers have experienced some sort of bad connections at RV parks/campgrounds. Note that this survey was probably responded to by RVers in the US so there are plenty of bad power pedestals out there. Every power pedestal should be checked before plugging your rig into it.

Campground power pedestal failures (Reader Poll included)

http://rvtravel.com/campground-power-pedestal-failures-reader-poll-included/


I have previously mentioned one of many devices that can be used to check pedestal power. I found that these can now be found on Amazon – not sure where else as the company no longer sells retail. - Prime Products 12-4058 AC Power Line Monitor – I bought two of these and made up a device I can use to quickly check both legs of a 50 amp connection. I can also check any other standard connection. This will tell you if polarity is correct and if you have ground – as well as a digital voltage read out. You can plug one in you rig to monitor voltage.

We bought one of the ISB Solar Basic Voltage Regulators a few years ago in Mexico. I find I have to use ours in the US as well. You would have to use two of them to regulate both legs of a 50 amp connection. I know there have been any number of products mentioned over the years on this forum but this is the only one I have ever seen which can correct both high and low voltage. They work. I have never been able to find one in the US for a decent price.

Corrector of Voltage 8 and 4 KVA

http://www.isbmex.com/productos/corrector-de-voltaje-8-y-4-kva

Rated capacity: 4 KVA and 8 KVA
Operating range: 85 V ~ - 147 V ~
Rated voltage: 127 V ~ 60 Hz
Maximum current: 30 A (4 KVA), 60 A (8 KVA)

[arkie_guide]

I have done electrical work for many years and in many different countries of our world. Do not expect wiring in other countries to be according to our standards.I have seen green as a phase conductor in many places so use caution.In others countries they use 220 at receptacles 2 hot wires, no neutral, and a ground wire.Be very careful making electrical changes if your not sure.

[reed_cundiff]

Mike and Terri Church's book warned against and suggested going solar autonomous if possible.
We had problems in Yucatan several years ago and son (in solar business) and family flew down to spend time with us. He brought down a battey charger so that intermittant power/voltage fluctuations would not damage electronics. He designed and fabricated this into both of our solar/LFP rigs. We just use a 15 amp 120 V power cord to the pedestal which goes to battery charger (which is apparently happy from 60 to 220 V). This supplies 48 V to LFP bank in our 5th wheel and 12 V to LFP bank in Roadtrek.

We have purchased a recepticle/outlet checker. These runs $6 to $10 and let you know if recepticle is safe. A multimeter will give more specific results but these do let one know if outlet is safe: grounded, proper polarity, GFCItest, neutral/ground reversed. Improper wiring can cause a hot chassis resulting in annoying to fatal shocks. Somone on this forum mentioned grounding the chassis with a cable and a copper rod stuck in the ground. We shall be installing this on Roadtrek before we got to Yucatan, southern west coast, and Patzcuaro...

Had hot chassis twice after Patzcuaro and we just relied on solar after that. We had sunny days for six weeks.

Reed and Elaine

[reed_cundiff]

Mike and Terri Church's book warned against and suggested going solar autonomous if possible.
We had problems in Yucatan several years ago and son (in solar business) and family flew down to spend time with us. He brought down a battey charger so that intermittant power/voltage fluctuations would not damage electronics. He designed and fabricated this into both of our solar/LFP rigs. We just use a 15 amp 120 V power cord to the pedestal which goes to battery charger (which is apparently happy from 60 to 220 V). This supplies 48 V to LFP bank in our 5th wheel and 12 V to LFP bank in Roadtrek.

We have purchased a recepticle/outlet checker. These runs $6 to $10 and let you know if recepticle is safe. A multimeter will give more specific results but these do let one know if outlet is safe: grounded, proper polarity, GFCItest, neutral/ground reversed. Improper wiring can cause a hot chassis resulting in annoying to fatal shocks. Somone on this forum mentioned grounding the chassis with a cable and a copper rod stuck in the ground. We shall be installing this on Roadtrek before we got to Yucatan, southern west coast, and Patzcuaro...

Had hot chassis twice after Patzcuaro and we just relied on solar after that. We had sunny days for six weeks.

Reed and Elaine

[briansue]

To fool the testers, the earth ground terminal is shorted to the neutral at the post!

You may be correct but I am not absolutely sure. I think a good tester would know if the neutral was common at the outlet otherwise any and all circuits in any house could fool the electrical inspector in the USA when he walks through the house randomly checking outlets with the same tester we would use - I have seen this done and they don't open outlets to physically check the outlet - they use a tester. I think there has to be a specific ground wire going from the main panel to any and all outlets. I think in Mexico there are people who will tie the ground slot of the outlet to the neutral wire but I don't think this would fool a tester - otherwise testers would be pointless anywhere. Testers are designed to recognize cheaters. But I am not 100% certain.

[Canadian_Rainbi]

briansue wrote:

ground and neutral are common.

To the best of my knowledge ground and neutral are always common as they are connected to the same bar in the main panel - I don't know of any other way of doing it.

I have seen NO earth ground in many Mexican campgrounds. To fool the testers, the earth ground terminal is shorted to the neutral at the post!

[reed_cundiff]

Briansue

Good idea for pulling grounding rod.

Reed and Elaine

[briansue]

Not from a direct lightning strike, unless you are quite lucky.

True true! But we have been near lightning strikes a number of times in our lives - even a hundred yards or so can take out things like computers and TVs - we have lost several pieces of electronic equipment over the years - not in the RV but in various residences - we did not have protection.

I had a house in Colorado with a high TV antenna and the it got hit several times - first time it took out the TV but then I got a signal booster thingy from Radio Shack to improve antenna strength and each lightning strike took out that booster but nothing else - I would just go buy a new booster - didn't know about surge protectors back then.

A tree strike about a hundred yards away took out our stereo receiver once.

We once did a remodel/restoration to a house that had a fire due to a lightning strike - it came into the house through a wall clock - inspectors said lightning goes to point of least resistance which in that case was the wall clock. That was over 40 years ago.

I have been close enough to lightning for the hair on my arms to stand up. With today's sensitive electronics that could be enough to get to some devices. It doesn't take a direct hit and a surge protector can provide some level of protection. But our main reason for having the protector on our Bus is chances of line voltage weirdness.

[pianotuna]

Hi briansue,

Not from a direct lightning strike, unless you are quite lucky.

briansue wrote:
A surge protector can protect against surges in voltage that exceed safe levels. This could even mean lightning bolts.

[pianotuna]

Hi briansue,

More commonly called an autoformer. Surge protection can be added.

briansue wrote:
A voltage regulator can change incoming voltage to an acceptable level. It is not a surge protector.

[briansue]

I carry small metal tent pegs to insert in the ground, they are cheap enough to leave if I can not pull them out, granted not the best but there is a path to ground with some water around the peg

Trick I learned long ago - leverage - wrap a small chain around the grounding rod - could be rebar or other length of rod - it may not work on an 8 foot length but will work on smooth rod up to 4 feet maybe - then wrap the other end of chain around some kind of stiff pry bar - 2x4 will work - things can be figured out if someone has tools - maintenance guys might have something - I have pulled some pretty serious stuff out of the ground with a couple feet of chain and a 2x4 - just takes a couple inches to get it started - keep in mind wet ground is better ground.



Click For Full-Size Image.

[qtla9111]

moisheh wrote:
Chris: Minisplits are available in 110 volt. Many of the small tract houses actually have a 30 amp 220 volt service.

Warranty? Just try and get that from a small builder unless you have a holdback

Pipe: In Canada and the USA water pipe must meet a standard. It is either UL or CSA or some other testing standard. Ordinary PVC water pipe in Mexico is very thin and has no standard printed on the pipe. It is junk. Schedule 40 is available and is marked as such There are many electrical items for sale in Mexico that do not meet any standard. Those 100 volt plug in devices that you attach to a shower head is a good example. They are dangerous and a person in our town was electrocuted from that device. Home Depot, Lowes and the electrical/plumbing stores do carry approved items. Cheap contractors don't shop at those outlets. There is a reason why some stores advertise items as Calidad de Exportacion. The best stuff is exported NOB. When my Plumber or Electrician in Canada does any major work he takes out a permit. The inspector may choose to visit the work site before any work is done and he explains how he wants the work to be performed. Or he may choose to inspect after the job is done. Neither inspector takes mordida. Tradesman in Canada and the USA are required to attend classes and upgrade their "ticket". I will take some photos of really bad workmanship when I return to Mexico and post a few. They are shocking (pun intended).

Moisheh

You're old school. You'll never see things in any other way. 110 minisplits are not common. You'll dispute everything I say so it doesn't seem to matter much anymore. Small builders? Are they the majority? No.

Your knowledge of old Mexico is vast, your knowledge of the new Mexico is minimal.

Goodbye.

[navegator]

I have a 24 foot C and we have a sure guard unit hard wired at the point where the cable comes in and all electronics are hooked to a 10 watt line conditioner, never had a problem in the USA or Mexico, one thing that we do have is the wing antenna, the CB antenna, the roof air condition unit, solar panels and the rear ladder are bonded to the chassis and I made sure that everything metal was also bonded including the outside compartment doors, we also have 25 feet of multi strand electric wire with clamps and I carry small metal tent pegs to insert in the ground, they are cheap enough to leave if I can not pull them out, granted not the best but there is a path to ground with some water around the peg.

I really hate getting zapped by stray current, I did notice that when the ground (green wire on the outlet) was not hooked in the house or outlet, that is when the zapping occurred, so I started experimenting to see how I could alleviate the situation, a dedicated ground to the chassis cured that and I tested all the metal around the unit and bonded them.

Why bond the ladder, we had a lightning strike the ladder in Arizona in a thunder storm before it was bonded, made a pin hole where it hit and where it exited after that we decided no more surprises, lightning is unpredictable and that is the desert for you, then we had to peel the cat from the ceiling.

navegator

[briansue]

So what is all this stuff and what are all these terms and what do they mean?

A voltage regulator can change incoming voltage to an acceptable level. It is not a surge protector.

An EMS can tell where the voltage is coming from and distribute it to the correct place - ours is supposed to know if we get power from shore or generator etc.

A surge protector can protect against surges in voltage that exceed safe levels. This could even mean lightning bolts.

A UPS is an uninterruptible power supply that is mostly used to protect computers from crashing if there is a sudden loss of power - with today's laptops containing their own batteries some people do not see the need for a UPS. But there is another factor - some UPSs have AVR or Automatic Voltage Regulation which is like a voltage regulator (ISB Sola Basic) but generally not for high demand devices - mostly only computers and electronics such a TVs - they are more precise than the larger size voltage regulators - we once even had one for our refrigerator to protect sensitive circuits.

There are other devices and some of these manufacturers will have a few different things that may be of use to RV owners. Learning about some of this stuff could be useful no matter where your travels take you.



http://trci.net/products/surge-guard-rv . . . . SURGE GUARD and other stuff



http://www.progressiveindustries.net/our-products . . . . SURGE GUARD and EMS



http://www.isbmex.com/productos/corrector-de-voltaje-8-y-4-kva . . . . . . . ISB Sola Basic - keep in mind - this is important - this is the only one I have found that can both raise and/or lower voltage as needed at levels where higher power needs are desired - can run things like air conditioners and microwaves (though maybe not at the same time). This was covered previously in this thread. By the way - we see both residences and businesses in Mexico with these devices mounted on their buildings. Plenty of people in Mexico have lost valuable devices to varying voltages. They can be ordered from almost any good hardware store in Mexico - though few stock them - should only take a couple days at most as they have distributors all over Mexico.



http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-uninterruptible-power-supply-ups/ . . . . opinions vary and there are other brands in the market place.


Even those with no knowledge of electricity at all should have basic circuit checking devices such as the Prime Products I brought up previously in this thread. Even battery chargers can get fried if connected to the wrong circuit (learned this one - bad experience).

[pianotuna]

Hi Reed and Elaine,

The problem I foresee with a grounding stake is the length that needs to be buried. 10 feet would be good, and 4 feet continually soaked in water might be ok. But pulling a stake that long--and storing it, and then deploying it are going to be a bit of an issue.