Roll Call Alaska 2015

[trcgolf]

I know its early but we have been planning for the past 3 months. I know its another 15 months at least till we leave but we are just going crazy...
So here is our very rough plan overview. Leave mid June from western NY; travel west up through Ill., Wis., Min., ND, into Canada.
Diagonally across Saskatch. and Alberta, BC, and YT...
Our first destination is Fairbanks, via Top of the World Highway... thinking of doing the Dempster to the Arctic Circle. I know there will many stops... some short, some long but all will be great.
Fairbanks to Homer with the obligatory Denali stop for a few days.
Homer to Portland Or; Oregon to San Fran; San Fran to home via the Northern US.

We have so much planning yet to do but reading all the Roll Call posts in 2013, and 2014 just keeps us going. Started to plan finances which brings us to the first major question.
I have heard all the diesel advantages and draw backs of the gas engines. We invested in a 32' fifth wheel and 2013 GMC 2500 HD with 6.0L Crew 4x4. The fiver weighs about 8K empty, I would guess 10,500 loaded. ( I will get that checked for sure)Brand new to Rving

The truck is my every dayer.... need the 4 wheel drive here in winter. The decision with gas was pure economics. A Cummins diesel and matching tranny was $9500 more. Doing the math it was going to take a bunch of miles to save enough in mileage to pay for the increase in price. About 100000 mile by my calculation. We not going to be full timers; one long trip a year to Florida.
Traveling around NY and Pa and maybe Florida, that all makes sense but going on a trip like this, I am not so sure gas was the way to go. So I am asking for those who used a truck like mine to haul a fifth wheel through Canada...Alaska...et al... What kind of mileage can I expect? Sorry for the novelette...I will get better at this.

Edited to add 'Alaska' within the title.

[sue_t]

A good article about some of the issues associated with melting permafrost.
www.cbc.ca/thawing-permafrost-threatens-food-security

Note that permafrost isn't ground that just freezes each winter. It is ground that is permanently frozen in winter & summer. Once it melts, it is no longer permanently frozen, it instead goes through a freeze/thaw cycle each year.

[sue_t]

mxw1 wrote:
The turnoff for Haines Alaska is along this section of the Alcan hwy and it is 155 miles of perfect road. It looks like it was paved yesterday. It gets the same weather as the Alcan does, so I don't believe the excuses of Permafrost and Frost Heaves.
The difference is; It gets maintained. Shame on Yukon Gov't.

Well, considering it IS the Yukon Gov't that maintains most of the Haines Road, up to the US border...and considering it was repaved this year and some of it last year and some the year before...

Not much melting permafrost along the Haines Road to affect the highway. Not much truck traffic to break it up either.

Here's some light reading in non-techie terms about the problems with permafrost
www.hpw.gov.yk.ca/trans/engineering/shakwak_and_permafrost.html

www.scientificamerican.com/alaska-highway-getting-more-bumps-in-the-road/
Geoscientists from the center have collected samples of permafrost (right) along the 1,390-mile-long highway for the past three summers to record how global warming is changing the ground and to predict where future damage may appear. Roadways with recurring damage from thawing permafrost cost about 10 times more than average roads to maintain

[PA12DRVR]

Just flew back to Ewe-Stun after 10 days in AK: some random thoughts

- Steady stream of RV's headed out (as Sue mentioned);
- There are at least two RV's that have apparently confused the Anchorage - Seward and Anchorage - Eureka legs for the Destruction Bay/Burwash Landing segment of the Alaska Highway: There's a reason that there are those "Delay of 5 vehicles or more is not permitted" signs.....
- Alaska in early September has got to be some of the most beautiful scenery in the world.
- There are some very weird people that attend the Alaska State Fair
- Alaska seems as if it has become overrun with slob hunters that have no respect for private property;
- 8 year old boy + little shotgun + spruce grouse = happiness to show Grandma & Grandpa is first hunting success
- After two years of very limited snow (in the Los Anchorage area), the price of new sno-go's seems to have dropped about 15 - 20%. I may have to guarantee a 3rd year of no snow by buying a new sno-go.

[fanrgs]

mxw1 wrote:
The turnoff for Haines Alaska is along this section of the Alcan hwy and it is 155 miles of perfect road. It looks like it was paved yesterday. It gets the same weather as the Alcan does, so I don't believe the excuses of Permafrost and Frost Heaves.
The difference is; It gets maintained. Shame on Yukon Gov't.

No, Mike, the difference is that permafrost heave varies depending on a number of factors including the type of soil that the road is founded on, the moisture conditions at that location, altitude, summer daytime high temperatures, depth of the freeze-thaw zone, etc.

If you want a better idea of the difficulties of building a highway over permafrost, read a history of the construction of the Alcan pioneer road in 1942 by the Corps of Engineers. They actually had D-8 Cats disappear into the mud after the original vegetation was stripped from the permafrost and the permafrost began to thaw. They finally resorted to laying down corduroy roads (horizontal tree trunks laid side-by-side), something the Army probably hadn't done since George Washington was Commander-in-Chief.

Most of the Haines Cut-off is located at a higher altitude than the portion of the Alaska Highway between Destruction Bay and Border City. In addition, much of it is built on bedrock or very shallow colluvial soils, instead of the very wet alluvial soils and muskeg found along that portion of the "Alcan" (you can tell the differences in soil moisture by the presence of all the stunted black spruce, called "taiga," along the highway).

Finally, that part of the Cut-off actually was rebuilt just a few years ago. So, if the Haines Cut-off weren't in better condition than that frost-heave damaged section of the Alaska Highway, some transportation department manager would be out of a job. And, since you didn't complain about the section of the Alaska Highway from Watson Lake to Whitehorse, which is also located in the Yukon and where even I can generally go 100 KPH, isn't it just a little unfair to blame the Yukon government for the conditions? Personally, I had to slow down more when towing my trailer over a 10-mile stretch of the frost-heaved Tok Cut-off near Slana than I did on most of that section of the Alaska Highway (and the Tok Cut-off is in Alaska, so not the Yukon's responsibility at all!).

PS: When the highway was gravel, instead of paved, and there were highway maintenance facilities in Haines Junction, Destruction Bay, Beaver Creek, etc., just to grade the road, frost heave was actually less of a problem. But back then tourists complained about broken windshields from rocks thrown up by speeding trucks. So, the DOTs just can't win!

[CA_Traveler]

Comment on meeting other rv.net travelers: The 2013 related list was started by Janet and she did a lot of posts which helped to keep interest in fellow travelers to Alaska. As a result of that I met 9 other travelers with signs.

That didn't happen in 2015 from the posts. In addition I was criticized on this thread for posting lists of travelers and I started that list because of the 2013 experience and we had planned to go this year.

Different thread, different expectations and different posters. But a lot of interesting posts.

[sue_t]

There's a steady stream of RVs heading south now. Many with Alaska plates also vacating the state for the winter season.

Safe travels.

[CA_Traveler]

sue.t wrote:
Tonight on my way home, I was following a 35 foot (or thereabouts) Class A towing a car trailer with a mid-sized SUV on it. The RV was moving at 70 mph. Yup, seventy! When it hit the frost heaves, the bouncing was spectacular. No brake lights, no slowing. Pedal to the metal. Count on that hitch breaking before reaching the Alaska border.

Really Sue??? I tell all of my friends to drive the speed limit or faster - absolutely no problem. :B Just bring enough cash to buy a new rig. :B :S

[NewallaBus]

Just returned to the land of Version internet, not much good in Canada or most of Alaska. Left home on 5 May, will get back 2nd week of Oct. No problems on the roads. Some construction in June, a lot more in August. Most frost heaves were marked with the orange flags, and you can usually see the center and side markings get squikley at the frost heaves; but not always. The key to the drive is slow down, after Haines Junction, we averaged about 40 MPH till just short of TOK. Average,in the construction, 20MPH. Coming home from Discovery RV we took 1.5 hours to go 30 miles. One point the pilot car lady stopped and came back to tell me to keep up. Told I would do my best, but my best was about 25 mph for awhile. On the way up we were passed by a 5th wheel, the back tires were airborne over a frost heave as he passed us. We are fortunate that we had lots of time to make this great trip, and did not have to rush. Richardn

[sue_t]

The highway crews in Yukon are on a never-ending cycle of repair. Each day, new potholes appear in the highway. I drive in to Whitehorse in the morning, and then in afternoon have to keep my eyes open for new holes that appear during the day.

There's a few spots where they fixed the frost heaves this spring, and those spots have sunk/risen again already. There are sections of highway that continuously sink. There are some places where they monitor the movement with cameras. Three years ago there was a complete rebuild of a stretch near our place, and it is falling apart already.

Tonight on my way home, I was following a 35 foot (or thereabouts) Class A towing a car trailer with a mid-sized SUV on it. The RV was moving at 70 mph. Yup, seventy! When it hit the frost heaves, the bouncing was spectacular. No brake lights, no slowing. Pedal to the metal. Count on that hitch breaking before reaching the Alaska border. I had to finally pass doing 85 mph, but I know where the dips and pavement breaks are and drive a little Honda Fit that doesn't get airborne on the heaves.

[cdbinns]

After 16 weeks and 15183.8 miles traveling with our Arctic Fox truck camper, we arrived home from our Alaska trip this afternoon. We traveled west through Canada and back east through the US. Highlights include the Canadian Rockies, Northwest Territories, Dempster Highway and Dawson City in Yukon Territories, Denali Highway, 4th of July in McCarthy, Kennecott, Valdez, Haines and Skagway, Stewart/Hyder, Vancouver, Seattle, North Cascades National Park, Grand Coulee Dam, Virginia City and Nevada City in Montana, Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks, Badlands National Park, Duluth, and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

We found that the dirt roads were often better than the paved ones. The frost heaves definitely made for a bumpy ride, but if you were paying attention, and drove at a reasonable speed for the conditions, they really weren't that much of a problem. Generally we felt the Canadian roads were better than the US roads. We drove on roads in upstate New York that were just as bad as the roads in Yukon.

We stayed in campgrounds most of the time (a mix of public and private) with a few nights of boondocking. We really enjoyed the Yukon Government campgrounds. They don't have a lot of services, but they are inexpensive, in beautiful locations with nice sites, and have free firewood.

We had a fantastic trip but we are glad to be home.

[joe_b_]

I wouldn't expect the roads to improve anytime soon in YT as the money just isn't there for the maintenance needed. As Susie mentioned for many years much of the Alaska Hwy in YT was maintained by Canada and the US provided most of the funding. We are the ones that mainly use the road, not the Canadians. There was for many years an agreement, the SHAkWak (sp), that provided the money, but the current administration in Washington D.C. decided to cut that funding a few years back.

Yukon, is a territory that depends heavily on moneys sent from the federal government in Ottawa, but the political problem is that they already sent something like 10 times the dollars to the Yukon per Canadian citizen that they do to the provinces of BC and Alberta,etc. I would doubt that the politicians in Ottawa are going to be interested in sending even more money to the Yukon, just to maintain a road used mostly by US citizens and companies.

Alaska is much the same in that the federal government is the largest employer in the state. The federal dollars spent in Alaska far exceed the amount the few citizens of Alaska pay in federal taxes and they have no state taxes to speak of at this time. On one hand I doubt that the Washington politicians are going to be willing to send anymore money to Alaska but on the other hand the US military has signed a plan to expand the early warning radar base at Clear (Anderson, Alaska) just north of Denali Park. They are looking at spending about $1 billion dollars from what I have read. A three to five year project, that will bring in 1,500 to 2,000 skilled workers to the area. Not sure where they plan to house that many workers in that area, Fairbanks? build a large camp? who knows? but it will change that part of the state forever.

[Trackrig]

sue.t wrote:

mxw1 wrote:
The 300 or so miles from Whitehorse to Alaskan border are in terrible condition. It seems to me that the Yukon Gov't doesn't care about the travelers on this section of road because there's very few places for tourists to spend their money here. It is obvious that they don't spend much on road maintenance here.

Perhaps the solution is to just stop the transports from using the highway so tourists can enjoy a better ride :B

Yeh, especially those heavy tanker trucks hauling fuel.

Bill

[sue_t]

mxw1 wrote:
The 300 or so miles from Whitehorse to Alaskan border are in terrible condition. It seems to me that the Yukon Gov't doesn't care about the travelers on this section of road because there's very few places for tourists to spend their money here. It is obvious that they don't spend much on road maintenance here.

Until a few years ago, the upgrades for the Haines Junction to Beaver Creek section were the responsibility of the American government because 90% of the traffic using that section are Americans. When funding was pulled, the improvements also lagged.

Through the year, the semi-truck traffic hauling to Alaska are very hard on the highway, especially during spring break-up. It's impossible to keep up with the road damage caused by Mother Nature and the heavy loads.

Perhaps the solution is to just stop the transports from using the highway so tourists can enjoy a better ride :B

[mxw1]

We got back from Alaskan Trip on August 22nd after leaving home May 1st.
Traveled about 10k miles in 2003, 34 foot, National Motor home.
Gone almost 4 months. Great vacation, first time to Alaska.
Did much boon-docking, quite easy to find places.
We visited Haines, Fairbanks, Denali, Chicken, Anchorage, Wasilla, Palmer, Seward, Valdez, Homer and every little place between.
Tried to visit anywhere there was a paved road.
I especially liked Anchorage; great Bike paths, lots of museums. Hard to Boon-dock, stayed in a private campground and Elks Lodge.
I'm not a big city person, but this isn't that big; about 200K people.

I'm glad we did this trip. Chance of a lifetime. I would do this again. We had Great experiences.

I was surprised at how little it rained, much less than I had expected. Same with mosquitoes; didn't need to use my face net at all. There were 3-4 evenings that mosquitoes were bad enough to be pests, that's about all.

Here is what I was disappointed in though...
The condition of the roads, especially in Canada.
I understand about permafrost and frost heaves, etc. The good roads are not as smooth as our US roads are in the lower 48. You can really tell the difference in a motor home because you hear all the rattles and squeaks that you wouldn't hear while towing a trailer. The bad roads are really rough. It's a shame.
The 300 or so miles from Whitehorse to Alaskan border are in terrible condition. It seems to me that the Yukon Gov't doesn't care about the travelers on this section of road because there's very few places for tourists to spend their money here. It is obvious that they don't spend much on road maintenance here.
This section of road will really lower your average speed or you will break something serious on your rig.

The turnoff for Haines Alaska is along this section of the Alcan hwy and it is 155 miles of perfect road. It looks like it was paved yesterday. It gets the same weather as the Alcan does, so I don't believe the excuses of Permafrost and Frost Heaves.
The difference is; It gets maintained. Shame on Yukon Gov't.

By the way, I didn't plan on driving to Haines, but I'm glad we did. It is a jewel of a town. Well worth it.

Alaska is beautiful to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.
So much we take for granted in the lower 48. Not every place has electricity and running water.

I would go again, but I think I'd fly or Cruise ship to Alaska, then rent a motor home while there and drive around for a month or so, then fly or cruise back.

One more thing; the road from Tok to Chicken Alaska is bad. We were told at the visitor's Center that the road is paved all the way except for the last 2 miles or so. It was at sometime, but again it has fallen into disrepair, narrow, hilly. I believe it took us 3 hours to travel the 66 miles. The further from Tok you get, the worse the road becomes.

Any questions?

Mike