BLM meeting on Friday January 23, 2015 in Quartzsite

[SuzzeeeQ2012]

The BLM Management will hold a public meeting Friday January 23, 2015 at 7pm at the Alliance Church in Quartzsite, Arizona. They are in their final stage of deciding what trails to close in the entire La Paz District. All travelers, miners, rockhounds, ohv riders are needed to attend if possible to find out what they want to do and to tell them what the public really wants.

[SuzzeeeQ2012]

not on subject, but in the ballpark of what was discussed "up there"


we were at Fortuna Pond.


outside on the road going past the farm fields before you hit 95, someone brought HUGE WHITE garbage bags and just dumped them on the ground.


What the he@#$@#$@ is wrong with people?!! The longer we boondock, the angrier I become with people.

easier to stay home sometimes.

[d-mac1]

mileshuff wrote:

d-mac1 wrote:
Seriously!?! Clubs only?!?!?! That is TOTAL BS. I was with you until that point was made.

My friends and I responsibly ride dirt bikes and so do alot of others I know.

Many people are very responsible. But I want to keep an area open AND have it not destroyed by those who are not. Do you enjoy off roading in places torn up and littered by others who are not responsible? Areas often get closed because too many are NOT responsible. What do you feel is the best solution to keeping areas open AND keeping them from being destroyed. I myself belong to an offroad group. We have numerous outings to repair the damage done by others and clean up areas. Its how we keep areas open, otherwise many politicians close them down. We should NOT have to clean up others messes in order to keep areas open. So, whats your solution?

I don't have a magic wand! Neither do you...or anyone else. I've found its typically the younger crowd who makes the messes and us who cleans em up. Ban anyone under 35!

I'm kidding! My son is 22. He helps me pick up when needed. Honestly, some of the places we go don't need much policing. Its places where partying takes place that get trashed and most often its the local kids that make the messes...NOT the people coming in to ride. I've found this to be true time and again. One of our few local winter spots is now closed due to excessive partying. Its NOT an area where riders go to camp!!

All I know to do is for those of us who are responsible to try to educate those who aren't and that can be done via clubs, access groups and by individuals. If you see something thats not right, let them know somehow.

In the meantime, keep picking up things when you see a problem. Clubs aren't the only ones who can do this.

As I said earlier, there are bad apples in every bunch. I can also tell you this....if public land is closed except to 'clubs' you can rest assured the trails will be poached by individuals. Same will happen once everything is closed. Then we'll have a big rebellion.

[mileshuff]

d-mac1 wrote:
Seriously!?! Clubs only?!?!?! That is TOTAL BS. I was with you until that point was made.

My friends and I responsibly ride dirt bikes and so do alot of others I know.

Many people are very responsible. But I want to keep an area open AND have it not destroyed by those who are not. Do you enjoy off roading in places torn up and littered by others who are not responsible? Areas often get closed because too many are NOT responsible. What do you feel is the best solution to keeping areas open AND keeping them from being destroyed. I myself belong to an offroad group. We have numerous outings to repair the damage done by others and clean up areas. Its how we keep areas open, otherwise many politicians close them down. We should NOT have to clean up others messes in order to keep areas open. So, whats your solution?

[pnichols]

Back on topic ... now that's it's been about a week ... how did the meeting go??

[TUCQUALA]

Seems that that this thread has taken a small detour away from the orig post. No problem!!

Back in the '70s, when we moved to Oregon, we used to camp, canoe, and ride outside of Bend along the Deschutes River. There were many spots to stay, definitely dispersed camping, Cow Camp, Slough Camp, and up next to Benham Falls. Very pristine and all those that used those areas took care of them. Worst thing you might run into was a pile of "road apples"!!!

THEN, Bend became "Californicated"!!! Now, you can't camp anywhere along the river until below (or above!!) Sun River. Only open to "bike" riders in their tights!! Back in the days of open camping, you rode on the fire roads, and the few actual trails. Now, there are multiple "tutu" bike trails running out from every parking lot that have been built to accommodate the PC riders!! Looks like a spider web spreading out from the lot. But, they have great cement shi**ers!!!

You will never be able to tell me that that this is decent use of the resources in this day and age. Seems to me that certain groups have taken over the agenda, and have prevailed. Personally, considering how most of these "riders" act, both in the woods and on city streets, maybe they should be removed from the forests!!!

Done ranting, let the PC flaming begin!!!

[pnichols]

d-mac1 wrote:
And I don't mean just riding....boondocking too in addition to 4wheeling...everything!

I hope the powerful AARP and various verterans groups eventually get involved in these land closure issues.

Many older or disabled Americans can only get into the wilderness via a vehicle of some type. I used to backpack and loved it ... that was all well and good back when. But now the DW and myself must use our RV to get and stay out in the middle of nowhere - as that's the only way we are able to do it. It's flat out NOT RIGHT for only the young/strong/immortal greenie-types to be able get onto "public" lands there via their feet. They may think it's a higher path, but it's blatantly unfair - when thought about rationally.

BTW, the DW and myself are "nature lovers" ... the DW even has a college degree in it. I'll take on any greenie who thinks vehicles being allowed in the wilds is immoral ... including radicals resembling the late Edward Abbey (the author of Desert Solitaire).

[d-mac1]

BoonHauler wrote:
The subject of land access is something that greatly concerns me.

When I retire I want to spend time ATVing and Dual Sport motorcycling. I also want to spend most my time boondocking on BLM or Forest Service land.

That being said any closure action I find a tough pill to swallow. So I decided to hunt around for information and thought any local OHV groups might be the best for me to hook my wagon to so here's what I found so far.

American Lands Access Association Outdated Page

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I really have to go with what the local people using the trail systems have to say and my comments to the BLM will be as so.

I'd really like to hear from any of you that might be familiar with any of these groups.

Cee

You are on the right track! I can't help in AZ, but you might look on ADVRider in the regional forums and ask. Or on Thumpertalk.

I belong to a number of groups that support access and some also participate in trail maintenance. At the national level, there is Blue Ribbon Coalition. They'll send updates on what is going on all across the country.

Often I've found that mountain bike access groups view dirt bikes as the enemy, but they're learning that once we are gone, they will be next. In some areas, we are working together to create and maintain multiple use trails, that hikers and equestrians can also use. I'm not aware of the reverse happening ANYWHERE.

I have some friends that refuse to get involved in access issues. One said 'there is plenty of land for me to ride on and if they take away a little, so what?'. I'm like....DANG, that is soooo short sighted. What about your kids? Or your grandkids? Or their kids? If we just sit back and do nothing, the enviro weenies will lock us out from all of it!

And I don't mean just riding....boondocking too in addition to 4wheeling...everything!

[BoonHauler]

The subject of land access is something that greatly concerns me.

When I retire I want to spend time ATVing and Dual Sport motorcycling. I also want to spend most my time boondocking on BLM or Forest Service land.

That being said any closure action I find a tough pill to swallow. So I decided to hunt around for information and thought any local OHV groups might be the best for me to hook my wagon to so here's what I found so far.

American Lands Access Association Outdated Page

Senior Citizens Against Quartszite Trail Closures Looks outdated

Arizona SunRiders ATV Culb Looks outdated as well

Ghost Riders OHV Club Looks outdated.

I sent an email to the Ghost Riders, here was my question

Hello:
I've been looking into the proposed closures associated with the La Posa TMP and ran across your site. I'm wondering if your organization is still active? .....

and here is what they sent back

Bouse Ghost Riders wrote:
We are still very active. The club is very supportive of the LaPosa TMP by BLM. If there are particular trails you ride that are not show as open in the preferred alternative, you need to submit your comment to BLM and tell them why you like to ride the particular trails. The maps show a lot of closures that are tracks that are no longer used.

It is important for BLM to finalize the TMP in order to get signs and maps. The quicker this is done the fewer rogue trails will be created.

More than you ask, but hope it helps.

I really have to go with what the local people using the trail systems have to say and my comments to the BLM will be as so.

I'd really like to hear from any of you that might be familiar with any of these groups.

Cee

[d-mac1]

mileshuff wrote:

2gypsies wrote:
We have seen many, many awful instances while 4-wheeling of adults NOT taking care of the land. We volunteer and pick up what those have left behind and repair areas damaged by those plowing through vegetation going wherever they want.....just another side of the story.

That is true in some cases. The organized off road clubs take extremely good care of the land. Many such groups sponsor outings where the club cleans up the area, campgrounds, trail repair etc. Its a few individuals that mess it up. Perhaps keep off road areas open but to organized clubs only that agree to periodic cleanups?

Seriously!?! Clubs only?!?!?! That is TOTAL BS. I was with you until that point was made.

My friends and I responsibly ride dirt bikes and so do alot of others I know. We often leave places cleaner than we found them. We like remote areas as much or more than others. We also hike, climb, backpack, ride mtn bikes, 4 wheel, ski etc. We also, as INDIVIDUALS, volunteer for and contribute money toward trail maintenance.

How would you like the ability to camp in a remote area restricted to only if you belonged to a club who had an activity there?

There are bad apples in every bunch and that includes just rvers.

[pnichols]

Somehow, someway, keeping the riffraff (i.e. The types that dump their GW and BW tanks on the ground, the types that drive ATVs/motorcycles indiscriminately too fast and too loud all over the place, etc..) off our public lands is "the answer".

IMHO, expensive annual access permits - with steep fines for not having one - would work. We'd budget carefully to pay for one each year if it meant we could have careful and thoughtful RV access to wild, scenic, remote, and unmessed-up public lands.

A case in point - just recently on our Quartzite trip we stayed in some (now pricey) Arizona and California non-hookup state parks that were remote feeling, quiet, beautiful, uncrowded, and "riffraff free". Nice ... but priced above what state compgrounds used to be. They were well worth it, IMHO.

[BoonHauler]

Is closing public lands the answer? I would think not.

[SuzzeeeQ2012]

dewey02 wrote:
I won't do your searching for you, but just off the top of my head- dumping GW and BW on the ground, hooking up to a campground's community water spigot, complaining for getting cited for violating the 14 day rule ( which means they've probably done it repeatedly and just got caught this one time.) There are many many posts where people actually seem to brag about breaking rules.

Where we camped on Plomosa, someone had dumped their black on the ground, you could see the TP all over :M

[SuzzeeeQ2012]

dewey02 wrote:

SuzzeeeQ2012 wrote:
I'd like to know why the BLM has to patrol it anyway!


Most of the time, us adults take care of the land just find without all their patrols.

My experience tells me that is not the case. Lots of bad things people are doing out there when there is little oversight.
And a quick review of several threads in this forum will reveal that many people actively look for ways to do what they want, regardless of the rules or the effect they have on the land.

yeah, probably right about needing patrol. Not sure they're catching it all though. I have seen that lately (people doing what they want regarless of their effect on the land)

[mileshuff]

2gypsies wrote:
We have seen many, many awful instances while 4-wheeling of adults NOT taking care of the land. We volunteer and pick up what those have left behind and repair areas damaged by those plowing through vegetation going wherever they want.....just another side of the story.

That is true in some cases. The organized off road clubs take extremely good care of the land. Many such groups sponsor outings where the club cleans up the area, campgrounds, trail repair etc. Its a few individuals that mess it up. Perhaps keep off road areas open but to organized clubs only that agree to periodic cleanups?