Fighting for campsites 6 months in advance!

[bgradert]

All-

Is it me or is booking campsites getting harder and harder? I have spent the last couple weeks trying to book a week in July at Ludington SP in Michigan and it was darn near impossible. There were about 15 sites available from July 8-14 this morning and within seconds they were gone. I was lucky enough to snag one of them just a few seconds after the six month reservation window opened. I also experienced the same difficulty booking Grand Haven for the 4th but a site did open and I was a able to book.

Last year I had to book 15 days at Platte River so I could get the week I wanted. I then went back and cancelled the days I did not want.

Have you all experienced the same frustration when booking sites?
I was speaking to my 75 year old parents who have camped all their life and they are very frustrated with trying to book sites. In fact so frustrated they sold their fifth wheel.

I heard the millennial's are buying campers left and right. Not sure if this is true.

[BrentB]

GordonThree wrote:
Maybe it's different from State to State but honestly I haven't had trouble finding a spot to camp whenever a workaholic friend of mine calls up and wants to take his kids camping.

Folks really detest rustic parks here in Michigan. I can walk in and get a spot around Independence Day no problem.

They camp in tents and I'm already setup for boondocking, it works well.

Don't try that in Texas!

[GordonThree]

Maybe it's different from State to State but honestly I haven't had trouble finding a spot to camp whenever a workaholic friend of mine calls up and wants to take his kids camping.

Folks really detest rustic parks here in Michigan. I can walk in and get a spot around Independence Day no problem.

They camp in tents and I'm already setup for boondocking, it works well.

[Durb]

ohhell10339 wrote:

Durb wrote:
People are gaming the reservation system and are even being coached how to do so on this thread.

If your description of the situation was accurate, then people could easily get campsites simply by showing up at a given time of day and taking one of the site cancellations. That's actually fairly easy to do at some parks, but not at others. On the Oregon coast during the summer, for example, good luck with that.

People's plans change and they may not actually show up when they have a reservation. They consider it worthwhile to make reservations, though, and are willing to pay a cancellation fee if they can't be there. Not everything is a conspiracy, and not everybody is trying to "game the system."

Never said everyone is gaming the system. I make reservations all the time but every time I do I intend to be there and stay the full duration of my reservation. People should ask themselves if they are gaming the system:

- Do you make reservations with little intention of using them?
- Do you make a reservation as a back up?
- Do you consider the cancellation fee to be no big deal?
- Do you have a spreadsheet with your reservations that has a column for the last day to cancel?
- Do you have a reservation and not show up and not cancel and just eat the reservation fee and one night site rental?
- If you have to cancel late and have to eat a site charge do you insist the site remain empty even though a family would like to occupy it?
- Do you make a campsite reservation just for your boat denying the site to someone that wants to take their family camping?
- Do you reserve extra days just so you have a place to stay on your preferred days?

People want to take their kids camping and because of all the planning involved would like to have a reservation. Showing up and hoping is not practical during these times. Not being able to secure a reservation because of the gamers is frustrating.

[ohhell10339]

Durb wrote:
People are gaming the reservation system and are even being coached how to do so on this thread.

If your description of the situation was accurate, then people could easily get campsites simply by showing up at a given time of day and taking one of the site cancellations. That's actually fairly easy to do at some parks, but not at others. On the Oregon coast during the summer, for example, good luck with that.

People's plans change and they may not actually show up when they have a reservation. They consider it worthwhile to make reservations, though, and are willing to pay a cancellation fee if they can't be there. Not everything is a conspiracy, and not everybody is trying to "game the system."

[toedtoes]

spoon059 wrote:

toedtoes wrote:
In our area at NFs, if you don't show the first night of your reservation and you don't call the rangers, you forfeit the entire reservation. There is no, well I'll book 14 days and then choose which ones to go.

I like this idea. I'm not sure how to prevent these types of bookings, short of a stringent cancellation fee and forfeiting sites like you mentioned. It still doesn't help the average camper, who checks availability before leaving and it shows booked because the date hasn't yet arrived to forfeit the site.

With this policy, you cannot book a site online if it's within 3 days of the arrival. This prevents someone from booking a site for tonight and not showing up - while someone who is at the campground can't get a campsite because it got reserved.

It also prevents double booking of the site. If I go online today to book a site, the earliest I can book is for an arrival date of Wednesday. So, if you arrive today and reserve the site with the host, the host knows if that site is available for the one night, two nights or three nights without needing to recheck the system or having someone reserve it right after you booked it in person. If it's booked for tomorrow night, it has been so since at least this past Friday.

I really have not seen the reservation issues here that I hear about in other areas. There is no "drop off your RV and go back to work for 5 days" or "book 2 weeks and only use the 3 weekends", etc.

You book what you are going to use and if you don't use it, you lose it.

It also means that folks can do walk ins and actually have a chance of getting a spot. Off season, I will check out the campground a week before my planned arrival to see if it's worth paying the online surcharge for my favorite site or if I don't reallyneed to bother.

[spoon059]

toedtoes wrote:
In our area at NFs, if you don't show the first night of your reservation and you don't call the rangers, you forfeit the entire reservation. There is no, well I'll book 14 days and then choose which ones to go.

I like this idea. I'm not sure how to prevent these types of bookings, short of a stringent cancellation fee and forfeiting sites like you mentioned. It still doesn't help the average camper, who checks availability before leaving and it shows booked because the date hasn't yet arrived to forfeit the site.

[goducks10]

According to Recreation.gov;
Reserved campsites and group overnight facilities will be held until check-out time on the day following your scheduled arrival. Group day use facilities will be held until check-in time on your scheduled arrival date.
Many CG's don't do that and it can be frustrating with no shows.

[spoon059]

This happened last year to my friend at a Deleware State Park. They booked for 4 nights, then decided they wanted to stay an additional 2 nights. The site they were in was booked after the 4, but there was another site available for the 5th night. They moved to the new site for night 5. Nobody occupied the old site night 5. My friend asked if the campground could contact the people with the reservation to inquire if they were planning on coming for night 6, they refused to do that.

Night 6 was "fully booked" so they had to leave, even though there was a spare camp host site. My friend tried to reserve the camp host site, but was told that it wasn't reservable, it had to be held open in case they accidentally overbooked. My friend asked if they could "accidentally" overbook him for night 6 and he would gladly move to the camp host site. They told him that they had no way to overbook (then why have a policy if they do overbook...?)

So they left after the 5th night and went home. The original spot (which was reserved and not available for him to book) was never occupied and after 2 days of no-show the park cancelled the reservation and allowed someone else to come in.

Very frustrating when people game the system. Its people that are only concerned with themselves. The same people that putter along in the passing lane on the highway because they don't care how they affect others, the same people that leave every outdoor light on because they don't care how they affect others, the same people that take 30 minutes to polish their black tanks at the dump station with a line of campers behind them because they don't care how they affect others. I almost wish that I had that ability. My father raised me to be aware and conscientious of other people. Life would be so much easier if I didn't care about my surroundings...

[toedtoes]

In our area at NFs, if you don't show the first night of your reservation and you don't call the rangers, you forfeit the entire reservation. There is no, well I'll book 14 days and then choose which ones to go.

If the campground is not busy, they may allow you to arrive the next day without forfeiting, but that is at the mercy of the host/ranger making the runs that day.

I have seen a campground with reservation cards on every site when the campground is empty, but that's because all those cards show a reservation for the next weekend (so you can walk in during the week and stay, but not expect to stay in that site over the weekend).

It seems to work well. The campgrounds are reserved early, but they are never empty when they're booked up.

[GordonThree]

Cover our arse is chief operating policy I guess is why the computer gets to have priority over the local rangers.

4 out of 5 times I bet doing an override works great. But that fifth time, it's someone who made a reservation 11 months ago and was a day late cause they rescheduled a chemo treatment, and then the media gets ahold of it and suddenly it's a human interest story on the national news.

[Thom02099]

Thom02099 wrote:

GordonThree wrote:

Durb wrote:
We booked the last two sites at a popular state park in Oregon for Tuesday through Friday. Even though the park was booked full it was 80% empty and did not start to fill until Friday. People are gaming the reservation system and are even being coached how to do so on this thread.

In my mind - $200 booking fee of which $192 will be refunded to you when you physically show up on the first day of your reservation. Forfeited if the reservation is cancelled. Too many people with too much time on their computers taking pride in locking up campsites so others can't use them. Tough medicine but hitting people in the wallet is the only thing that will stop the abuse. This plan provides for no extra cost if you actually plan to use the site.

Nothing angers me more than showing up to a state park that showed sold out online yet is mostly empty.

Onsite staff don't even have the power to override the computer without a several day wait.

^^^ This! Total agreement with GordonThree.

Last year, on a trip to RMNP, Moraine Park CG had the sign out front that said Campground Full. And yet, there were sites on both side of us that were never occupied for the weekend, and several others in our loop that were also not occupied.

Same thing at a USFS CG. Sign out front said FULL, but a walk around the CG several times during the weekend, we saw several sites that were never occupied.

This is frustrating, for those of us that try to use the system correctly, and for those who want to try a last minute booking, or even a walk in to a specific CG. If the sign out front says full, can the CG host override that? Can the area Ranger? Seems like at some point the site should be fair game for any takers.

For anyone who may be interested in booking within the 180 day window in Colorado for locales that use recreation.gov, 01/20/18 is the first day for booking 07/20/18. So far, I've been able to book CG that I want, though I've had to go with a 3rd choice for some locations.

[Thom02099]

GordonThree wrote:

Durb wrote:
We booked the last two sites at a popular state park in Oregon for Tuesday through Friday. Even though the park was booked full it was 80% empty and did not start to fill until Friday. People are gaming the reservation system and are even being coached how to do so on this thread.

In my mind - $200 booking fee of which $192 will be refunded to you when you physically show up on the first day of your reservation. Forfeited if the reservation is cancelled. Too many people with too much time on their computers taking pride in locking up campsites so others can't use them. Tough medicine but hitting people in the wallet is the only thing that will stop the abuse. This plan provides for no extra cost if you actually plan to use the site.

Nothing angers me more than showing up to a state park that showed sold out online yet is mostly empty.

Onsite staff don't even have the power to override the computer without a several day wait.

^^^ This! Total agreement.

Last year, on a trip to RMNP, Moraine Park CG had the sign out front that said Campground Full. And yet, there were sites on both side of us that were never occupied for the weekend, and several others in our loop that were also not occupied.

Same thing at a USFS CG. Sign out front said FULL, but a walk around the CG several times during the weekend, we saw several sites that were never occupied.

This is frustrating, for those of us that try to use the system correctly, and for those who want to try a last minute booking, or even a walk in to a specific CG. If the sign out front says full, can the CG host override that? Can the area Ranger? Seems like at some point the site should be fair game for any takers.

[GordonThree]

Durb wrote:
We booked the last two sites at a popular state park in Oregon for Tuesday through Friday. Even though the park was booked full it was 80% empty and did not start to fill until Friday. People are gaming the reservation system and are even being coached how to do so on this thread.

In my mind - $200 booking fee of which $192 will be refunded to you when you physically show up on the first day of your reservation. Forfeited if the reservation is cancelled. Too many people with too much time on their computers taking pride in locking up campsites so others can't use them. Tough medicine but hitting people in the wallet is the only thing that will stop the abuse. This plan provides for no extra cost if you actually plan to use the site.

Nothing angers me more than showing up to a state park that showed sold out online yet is mostly empty.

Onsite staff don't even have the power to override the computer without a several day wait.

[Durb]

We booked the last two sites at a popular state park in Oregon for Tuesday through Friday. Even though the park was booked full it was 80% empty and did not start to fill until Friday. People are gaming the reservation system and are even being coached how to do so on this thread.

In my mind - $200 booking fee of which $192 will be refunded to you when you physically show up on the first day of your reservation. Forfeited if the reservation is cancelled. Too many people with too much time on their computers taking pride in locking up campsites so others can't use them. Tough medicine but hitting people in the wallet is the only thing that will stop the abuse. This plan provides for no extra cost if you actually plan to use the site.