How to keep jerry cans from freezing when boondocking?

[profdant139]

We just got back from a week in the Sequoias -- great fun, lots of snow, good snow-shoeing. One night it got down to 11 degrees, freezing the water pipe leading from our fresh tank to the pump. (It thawed later in the day and we had no further problems, with the nights in the 20 degree range and the days in the mid-30s.)

We also had lots of extra water in our 6 gallon plastic jerry cans, which were stored outside (of course), since our trailer is so small. They froze solid, too, not surprisingly.

So that is my question for you experienced snow campers -- I understand that I can't rely on my big fresh water tank in really cold weather. We are happy to rely on the jerry cans, heating up water for sponge baths on the stove. But how does one keep the darn jerry cans from freezing?? (Heat tape is not the answer for us -- it uses too much juice, even with solar power.)

Thanks in advance for your advice!

[SteveAE]

profdant139 wrote:
if I can figure out a way of heating the tank drain area without draining my battery, that would be a lot better than having to rely on my collection of jerry cans.

Hum, I wonder how well something like this would work?

[profdant139]

Dave, the tank (30 gallons) is under the floor in front of the axle. Although I have swaddled it in reflectix, the tank is not enclosed, so there is no way to heat it -- unless I build some sort of an enclosure, which is starting to sound like a good idea.

By the way, since we were boondocking, we were not worried about the black or gray tanks freezing. Those valves stayed shut till we got down out of the mountains to the dump station, and they had thawed by then.

Also, the fresh water tank itself did not freeze. I got under the tank one morning and pushed up on the plastic bottom of the tank, and the water sloshed around. We did not even hear any crackling of ice. So the freeze was very localized, right in the outflow area.

And Green, you are right that the doorway is the coldest part of the trailer, but the inside of the trailer almost never gets below freezing. Until this last week, our record low inside was 35 degrees. But this week, it was 28 degrees inside the trailer on the coldest morning. Yikes! But that is not cold enough to freeze the jerry can into a solid block.

Having said that, if I can figure out a way of heating the tank drain area without draining my battery, that would be a lot better than having to rely on my collection of jerry cans.

[dave17352]

Just curious where is the fresh tank on your rig. Is not the fresh tank kept heated by heating the interior of your trailer. If there is forced air heat isn't there a way to put warm air to the pump area.

[SteveAE]

In the name of science (of course), it sounds like more trips are in order to test out some ideas. More fun for the Fun Finder.

[greenrvgreen]

Just inside your door is the coldest place in your RV. Prof, I don't think you're trying hard enough!

Anybody's toilet seat will have room for a jerry can on top of it. And what exactly is being stored now in the dead air space above the foot of your bed? Hmmm? Clothes there/water inside.

I have this picture in my mind of the water being kept outdoors at night and the snowshoes brought inside.

I've found that rotating jerry cans doesn't work unless you have a major source of heat. Once you have a 6-gallon block of ice, it's very slow going to get it liquid again.

[garyhaupt]

Dan..I'd be inclined to keep that one jug inside at night and stop fretting about the rest. By the time you'll need the others thawed, the days sun will have done that, especially if you have a black tarp over them to get the suns warmth. KISS


Gary Haupt

[profdant139]

We tried putting the jerry cans into the back of the truck -- they froze there, too. And we had a cooler in the back of the truck -- we took all the food out of it but left water bottles inside. They froze.

I like the idea of bringing in one jerry can and leaving it just inside the doorway -- that is all we would have room for. No way we can put a can in the shower -- there is no room. In our trailer, the shower is the toilet, too!

A couple of years ago, I enclosed the area that froze (the low point of the tank, where the outflow tube is attached), and that area is wrapped in reflectix. That method was adequate when the temp was around 20 degrees, but not at 10 degrees.

I am thinking about creating a fully enclosed air space around the tubing, with an LED panel inside that space. The "dead air" zone around the tube would be small. The LED would give off just enough heat, I think, to warm the trapped air just a little, enough to get us through the night without freezing. (I could easily monitor the temp with my remote thermometer, which I now use to monitor my backyard smoker!)

I would power the LED by tapping into my 12 volt system, with a switch. It would not draw much power -- maybe 300 milliamps. The only trick would be to remember to shut it off in the morning!!

[pianotuna]

Cover the cans with a black tarp. Double up on the covering at night. Pack the cans tightly so they touch each other.

[Searching_Ut]

Over the years I've spent a lot of time winter camping, snowshoe tent or snow cave type stuff mostly in my younger years, and RV of some sort later on in life.

Unfortunately, in my experience finding or maintaining water in a liquid form was not something I found easy to do, with the only option I found most of the time involved utilizing some sort of heat source (Fuel) to provide water. Sometimes you can find a spring that is flowing, or get under the ice to find water. Seems you either have to keep it in a heated space taking up room you want to use for something else, or take the time, and burn the fuel to take it from frozen to flowing.

Are there any options for enclosing and heating the area with your water lines so that you can continue to use your tanks in colder weather?

[greenrvgreen]

I use the ice chest method, with car. As an added twist, I no longer use the big 6-gal hard plastic cans--mostly. Rather, I use Nalgene 3L soft-sided water bladders like this:

http://www.rei.com/product/626195/nalgene-wide-mouth-cantene-96-fl-oz

Yes, they're expensive, but they'll pack well into a cooler. Also on Amazon there is a 10L Chinee Cheepee version that hasn't leaked yet and is almost free.

In the morning when the sun hits the windshield I'll lay some out on the dash and warm them up. If you have a microwave you can stick them in and get them started. Unscrew the cap and lay them in a shallow tupperware.

With these smaller soft-sided water bladders it's easier to find small spots in your TT to store them. This is the best method, of course.

I've stored jerry cans in the shower, as others have suggested. I've also attached holder cups in the shower for a clothes hanger bar like you see in closets. I remove the bar when I take a shower and the rest of the time I have a lot more storage room available. Not only can I hang wet clothes to dry, but I can hang duffel bags full of random junk that would otherwise be in the way.

[RoyB]

We are always camping off-road back in the woods somewhere in the winter months. The only way for us was to keep the bon-fire going all night and I round up all of my fresh water totes and keep closer to the fire...

Fresh water is always something we look for when going in on the back OFF-ROAD places so we can go back when it gets daylight again and re-fill our cans... Most of the time there is a bath house of some sort near the main entrance of the Natl Forest areas... ALot of times they close up too due to freezing temperatures.

For us thats part of the survival skills when camping on your own somewhere...

Sounds like you had a fun trip..

I am getting anxious to get back into the late season outings here once again -

Roy Ken

[SteveAE]

Great job on getting a early start to the winter camping season. We are still waiting for winter to arrive in the PNW....though it might be happening right now.

I tend to agree with putting them inside. But, in an effort to come up with a different solution, you could try; in the back of your truck, inside an ice chest, that is wrapped up in blankets. You could even toss a couple heat packs in the ice chest if you wanted to be sure....but I think you would be OK without them for just overnight.

But now that you know the weak spot in your plumbing (where it freezes), I would be inclined to solve that and not worry about separate containers of water (until you go somewhere it is colder). Adding insulation in that area perhaps? Or box it in and pump some cabin air down there? Or recirculate the water so the pump cycles occasionally? Or, maybe a really low power heat tape that you can turn on only occasionally and is covered by a good layer of insulation. Whatever you do, I really doubt it will take much.

[Padlin]

I know I'd be unable to use the toilet in mine if I put a 6 gallon water jug in the "shower", looks like yours is the same. I'd put them just inside the door when you come in for the night, move them back outside when it warms up a bit in the am. Don't know that I'd do more then 1 or 2 though, they aren't all that light. Could always get something more manageable like 3 gallon. Might be easier to store somewhat out of the way in the trailer, and get out of the truck bed.

http://www.rei.com/product/605745/reliance-desert-patrol-3-gal

[Golden_HVAC]

Put them in the shower when it is that cold outside. It is sort of out of the way, and a place to keep them inside.

If your plan is to refill the fresh water tank from the jerry cans, you might want to add hot water to them before draining it all into the tanks, or fill the jerry can with 130+ hot water from your hot water tank to heat the fresh water tank a little bit. If you only have 20 gallons of fresh water in the tank, and pump 6 of that into the hot water heater, and those 6 gallons back into the tank, and let those 6 hot gallons back into the fresh tank, it will warm it from say 45F to around 60F - 70F.

In this way, you can have a warmer shower, and reduce the risk of freezing the fresh water tank as well.

Good luck!

Glad that you had a great time camping!

Fred.

[old_guy]

we kept ours in the shower and they never freeze in there.