Recommended Dry-Camping Mods to a Small TT

[granlobo]

Thanks everyone for their thoughtful and informative posts on the site...I've enjoyed and benefited from them immensely!

I'd greatly appreciate your thoughts regarding the following:

We're looking to graduate up from tent camping to a small TT. Personal preferences and allegiances aside, the best overall choice for us (factoring in cost, features, tow vehicle appropriateness, sleeping capacity, etc) is an r-pod.

>75% of our anticipated use will be in a "dry camping" capacity in designated DCNR sites...we're definitely not "campground" folk. Most of our trips initially will be of the 2-3 day variety, with a desire to complete several 3-week-long "loops" across the country down the road.

I'd much rather roll certain "upgrades" into the initial loan/purchase of the r-pod instead of being confronted with deficiencies during our first full summer/fall of use next year.

A few things I thought of:

A) The 20 lb LP tank on front...recommended to upgrade to a 2-tank bracket configuration? Overkill for only 3 days when running only the water heater, fridge, and cooking stove for meals?

B) The unit comes "stock" with only one 12V deep-cycle battery. Seems like a good candidate for an upgrade. Will they sit 2 of them side-by-side in parallel? Have a 2nd one alone to "swap out" while the other is charged? Etc.

C) Any special wiring (significant enough that you'd want it installed at the dealership) to "trickle charge" 1-2 batteries with a solar panel?

D) Success/recommendations on which type of panel? I like the "mats" that drape over the contours of the r-pod itself...but a toughie if you're under a shade canopy. Stand-alone that can be moved and connected via a cord to a nearby, sunnier location?

E) I'm not overly excited about buying a generator...cost-wise OR the fact that state/national parks may not permit them around here. A good idea to purchase one of those 26-30 amp-hour "recharging stations" for any portable devices we have with us? And to dump into the deep-cycle battery in a pinch?

Anything else that I'm forgetting? I'd really like to get any bread & butter (expected) upgrades rolled into the initial loan/purchase so that we can focus on enjoying the unit and be confident in our ability to go off-grid for 2-3 days.

Thanks!

[SteveAE]

beemerphile1 wrote:
You are getting good advice but----
Virtually any RV can dry camp/boondock for 2-3 days just as it comes from the factory.

I would suggest that you simply buy it and go camping. Over time you will figure out what you need to change. There is no point in spending money now on things that won't benefit you at all. The one exception might be a second battery.

X2
With the addition of changing the light bulbs to LED's. Real easy to do and should be cheaper if you do it rather than the dealer.

Steve

[Deadheadmatt]

granlobo wrote:
I'd much rather roll certain "upgrades" into the initial loan/purchase of the r-pod instead of being confronted with deficiencies during our first full summer/fall of use next year.

If they are throwing some of these items to make the deal, then its not a bad idea. However, "rolling" these add-ons into the loan might not be the best approach. I know it means you don't have to pay for them right now, but the overall cost of financing these add-ons over time might not make sense financially.

It is important to understand that the minute your trailer rolls off the lot, it will lose significant value. The add-ons will never "add" the same amount of value to your camper for resale that you will pay over time financing it.

From what you describe from your intended travels (and based on my own experience starting small and then going big), I think you might realize down the road in a year or two that a bigger trailer will be in order. Its very easy to find yourself upside down (unless you are making a big down payment and I missed that somewhere).

It sounds like you have some fun trips planned. What tow vehicle are you using?

Matt

[beemerphile1]

You are getting good advice but----
Virtually any RV can dry camp/boondock for 2-3 days just as it comes from the factory.

I would suggest that you simply buy it and go camping. Over time you will figure out what you need to change. There is no point in spending money now on things that won't benefit you at all. The one exception might be a second battery.

[atreis]

granlobo wrote:
Thanks for all of the great info!

Regarding the 6V batteries...a lot of people seem to like that.
The r-pod has an on-board battery monitoring system (not that you can't check it yourself with a multi-meter, but I don't want to start out by invalidating that system), which means I'd need to put two 6V in SERIES to get back to 12V. No biggie.

Yes, put the 2 6V in series to get back to 12V. The common standard size most people use for the 6V batteries is GC2 (gulf cart batteries). If you see people refer to T-105, that's the Trojan model number for the same thing.

Given that we have concerns with kids & wasted battery...I think I'd still want to go with a 2nd battery, which in this case, would mean a 2nd pair of 6V batteries.

2 "sixes" in series to make 12V. A second set of "sixes" in series to make 12V. Probably neatly arranged in readily-available battery trays/boxes. Instead of trying to put the 1st pair in parallel with the 2nd pair (getting into a lot of wires on the tongue of the vehicle at that point), I'd probably be inclined to leave the 2nd set off and swap out the batteries set-for-set when the first pair hit 50%. Sound OK?

Rather than carry another 2nd pair of 6V, you could just carry the original 12V that came with the trailer and switch to it if the two 6V go dead. I did that for a while, until I realized I was never actually needing to switch. 🙂

IMO, you definitely wouldn't want to put 4 6V on your tongue - they're quite heavy, which would likely add too much to the tongue weight.

Regarding your 115W panels...do you find that these functionally prolong your battery life while camping? I've heard it said that they DO...and also heard it said that they're more for maintenance and re-charging when not in use. Depends on the output wattage?

It prolongs my battery life significantly. How much depends on how big the panel is (output wattage) and how much you consume. For us, if we're not running the furnace and camping in the open the 115W panel is more than enough - before the end of the day the batteries are fully charged. If we're in trees (panel is shaded part of the day) it extends how long we can go without needing to recharge the batteries in some other way to around 8-10 days (about twice what we could do without solar). If we're running the furnace every night while camping in a somewhat shady site, 4-5 days (again, about twice as long).

At the time I bought my trailer smallish panels like mine were still quite expensive, so putting more wattage on was out of the picture. These days the cost has come down quite a lot so there's really no reason to not have 200 or so watts.

Things that (IMO) aren't practical while using solar: AC, any kind of electric powered cooker (including coffee pot - we use a pore-over filter for coffee and heat the water on the stove), electric powered refrigerator, cooler, or freezer (the RV fridge runs primarily off propane when not hooked to shore power, only using 12V for the control circuitry), electric powered heater, hair dryer or curling iron.

It's possible to still run 120V AC devices while using solar - with an inverter (device that converts DC to AC). For such things I have a small 300W pure sine wave inverter. How to very roughly figure the 12V DC amps used by something that runs off of 120V AC: Take the wattage of the device and divide by 12 (if using a true sine wave inverter) or 10 (if using a modified sine wave inverter - most things run less efficiently on them).

E.g. If a household fan says it consumes 60 Watts, it will pull roughly 5 amps using a pure sine wave inverter, or 6 amps using a modified sine wave inverter. (Over the course of 24 hours, it would need 120 - 144 amp hours.)

How that figures into solar: Assume a panel sitting in the open will produce 100% it's rated output for 5 hours a day (reality is that it will produce less than that for longer - it's a ballpark number). Take the rated wattage of the panel and divide by 12 to get amps: e.g. 115W panel will produce 9.6 amps. Multiply by 5 (5 hours) to get the total amp-hours produced: 48 amp hours. So, running the above example fan, the batteries would still go dead - the panel is producing less than the fan is consuming in a day (so don't leave the fan on 🙂 ).

Also keep in mind if camping in the woods: I get roughly 1/4 the output when in partial shade, and about a tenth in dense tree cover. Cloudy days affect things too, but less so than heavy shade.

[profdant139]

granlobo, you asked about our battery setup -- I think you can definitely fit two on the tongue in plastic boxes. I reinforced the tongue with heavy steel bars running crosswise under the boxes, and the boxes are bolted to the bars. Probably overkill, but why not?

And yes, we do use one battery at a time and then swap 'em when the first one reaches 12.1 volts or 50 % state of charge. Lots of people say 6 volt is better, and using two batteries at once is better, and they are probably right on both counts. But big 12 volt batteries are cheaper and easily available. And not using both at once means that you don't end up with both discharged at once -- after swapping them out, I recharge the drawn-down battery.

I am sure that solar will be helpful, although I do not yet have it. But my best advice is not to try to get your rig in perfect condition all at once. Do some camping and then see what needs upgrading or fixing.

[JiminDenver]

You don't change out the fixture, just the incandescent bulb in side. I saw someone picked up a 10 pack for $23 off of amazon a few days ago.

How big is the air conditioner? That will decide how big of a generator you need. The least expensive reputable quieter set up would be a pair of Champion 2000w inverter generators that can be paralleled together for a grand or less. There are other options with a single inverter generator but they can be near as loud as my 3500/4000 open frame. It works for us because we rarely need AC at high altitude, rarely camp around others and with the solar doing the charging, it truly is the quietest around since it never runs.

Our last trip had a few cold and rainy days. We didn't conserve even though the panel was putting out minimal power, in fact we used more than usual. Luckily the sun came out the third day or I would have been thinking of a alternate means of charging. This year we have upgraded the solar to 490w, will use our full bank of 345 ah and with a 3000w inverter can use the microwave, a hair dryer and a satellite system for the TV too.

[JiminDenver]

Only you can determine your power draws. There are calculators that can help but for me in use is the best way.

115w may cover you on a daily basis but get a few cloudy days and it will have a heck of a time charging up two 6v that are discharged. There is a formula that suggest 1-1.5 watts per AH of battery capacity. With two 6v, you are looking at 200w or more.

With your described uses, a pair of 6v and enough solar, I don't see you needing a second set of 6v at all. Add in that discharging a battery and letting it sit like that is a horrible thing to do.

We used a 230w panel and a 95 ah battery to power the trailer last year. The way we went through the power you would think there was a cord coming out of the woods some where. We use the furnace nightly and sometimes in the day too, light the rig from end to end, watch TV/DVD, have music, run the fans, etc. without a thought. We take a generator for air conditioning and as a back up but haven't needed it since we got the solar. The 230w system we used can be put together for around $400 roughly.

[granlobo]

JiminDenver wrote:
I can understand getting the up grades at the beginning, just be careful about what they are charging you and what you get.

A solar trickle charger is meant to maintain your battery while in storage not recharge it while you camp. Ask the dealer to instal a trickle charger or maintainer and you may get a 15w panel when you may really need 10 times as much.

Another consideration is how much extra you may pay to get it rolled into the loan. What a dealer charges for a extra battery, propane tank or solar can be well above what you would pay for it yourself. This is especially true for solar.

You mentioned the solar strips and the only ones I know of are Uni-solar strips. The smallest is 65w and 9 feet long. You could drape one or two on the trailer when you are parked in the sun or roll them out on the ground when the trailer is in the shade. 65w isn't a lot of power so I would think two are in order.

We have two 20 pound propane tanks that we fill once a season. It's cold at night where we go, so lots of furnace use.

Replacing the incandescent lights with LED not for the horrendous price the dealer will want but rather a few bucks each off of ebay will save your battery like nothing else. We did it and instead of using a light or two, we light up the trailer at night like we do the house and never even think of it.

On the extra battery, don't let the dealer put two grp 24 batteries in. They will work but a pair of 6v will serve you much better and hold more capacity as well.

So now you will have two propane tanks, two batteries, some solar and LEDs. Unless you will need the air conditioning, I can't see you needing a generator for the short trips. It would be a prudent back up on the longer trips but you can always get away with turning the truck around, hooking up a set of heavy jumper cables and running it for a hour or so if the batteries get too low.

The one thing you didn't mention is fresh water and holding tanks. How big are the tanks on the R-pod? Honey and I can stretch 60 gallons to two weeks including showers and washing real dishes daily. Teaching kids how to not waste water is harder, do have plans for carrying extra?

Realistically, when we have a rainy day, we're going to have lights on, the water pump on and people using the lavatory, kids who grow tired after several hours of our attempts to promote traditional board games and want to run/charge electrical devices, etc.

If our goal was not to "trickle", but to actually extend observably the life of the 12V configuration on the unit...what's the minimum solar output wattage that you'd recommend? (Please bear in mind that we're buying an r-pod and not a Windstream...price is somewhat of an option...haha).

Regarding LEDs...we do our own wiring for basic things at home. Would this be analogous to switching out an outdated overhead light fixture in favor of a new one? Disconnect...black to black, white to white, ground to the fixture, and reconnect? Would we be looking specifically for "RV" LED light fixtures...specifically 12V...or just any space-appropriate, smallish LED light fixture?

We're going to need to look into a generator for A/C purposes. Anything you'd recommend that's reasonable noise-wise and would make for a reasonably economical choice? We can't get into a $2000 expenditure...but I also don't want to roll in with a "budget" model that's inappropriately loud.

Thanks for all the great info!

[granlobo]

pnichols wrote:
Regarding drycamping in general, if you want to kindof "be ready for anything at any time" when out and about with your TT you can't have too much capacity in anything - just more than you can afford or fit.

I've seen comments in many drycamping threads regarding grey water tank capacity. Remember that if your TT has a black water tank (as opposed to a casette toilet), then you can extend your grey water storage capacity camping time merely by off-loading your grey water into your black water tank. We do this all the time in our Class C motorhome. We dump grey water down our toilet to free up room in our grey water tank.

Two batteries are always good. More propane is especially good because it's a bit of a nuisance to refill on trips. In case of inclement weather, why go home due to dead batteries when a small quiet generator could keep you out of trouble. Carry as much fresh water as possible aboard at all times. If you want some solar capacity for sunny days, make it portable solar that can be placed away from your TT in the sun while the TT is in the shade.

Another factor many with small TTs may not be aware of: Consider putting tires on the TT that are larger diameter than what most likely came on it. Larger diameter tires wear better and are more blowout proof because they generate less internal heat (less revolutions per mile) when going down the road with any given weight TT - this is especially important when traveling in hot weather. I know from (a bad) experience on this.

Good luck - keep us posted as/if you modify your rig for better drycamping!

Thanks for the "tire" suggestion...the r-pod has a "lift" as a (pretty affordable) option that we'll likely go with! Great insight, given that we aspire to take some longer cross-country "loops" in the summertime!

[granlobo]

atreis wrote:
Figure out how much electric you really need... To conserve, switch to LED lights, and be careful with what you turn on. You'll also need to conserve water - for us this is usually the limiting factor.

2 6V batteries work much more nicely than the standard 12V.

Mount solar panels on the roof (I have a single 115W, which serves us okay - but you'll have to figure out if you need more).

If you don't want to install a double propane tank holder, you can always just carry a second tank and change it out when the first goes empty.

Thanks for all of the great info!

Regarding the 6V batteries...a lot of people seem to like that.
The r-pod has an on-board battery monitoring system (not that you can't check it yourself with a multi-meter, but I don't want to start out by invalidating that system), which means I'd need to put two 6V in SERIES to get back to 12V. No biggie.

Given that we have concerns with kids & wasted battery...I think I'd still want to go with a 2nd battery, which in this case, would mean a 2nd pair of 6V batteries.

2 "sixes" in series to make 12V. A second set of "sixes" in series to make 12V. Probably neatly arranged in readily-available battery trays/boxes. Instead of trying to put the 1st pair in parallel with the 2nd pair (getting into a lot of wires on the tongue of the vehicle at that point), I'd probably be inclined to leave the 2nd set off and swap out the batteries set-for-set when the first pair hit 50%. Sound OK?

Regarding your 115W panels...do you find that these functionally prolong your battery life while camping? I've heard it said that they DO...and also heard it said that they're more for maintenance and re-charging when not in use. Depends on the output wattage?

Thanks again! 🙂

[granlobo]

profdant139 wrote:
I didn't know that DCNR allowed dispersed camping -- gotta check it out when we go back East! Very cool.

An R-Pod is a fine choice for what you intend to do. My only problem with them was the headroom in the kitchen area -- I am 6'3", and I am the cook, and the roof curves down. Very well built trailer, and pretty good mileage due to the shape. Maybe consider an axle flip for more ground clearance?

For three days, you do not need a second tank. We do a lot of cold weather camping and have never had to use our second tank.

Two batteries mounted side by side on the tongue is a great idea -- the bigger, the better. We have two 110 amp hour Group 31s. One will last us three or four days in cold weather. We use one and then swap out the spare. Be sure to learn proper battery maintenance tricks and tips -- I ruined a few batteries before I figured it out.

With the hot water, as soon as shower time is over, turn it off. No reason to have it cycle on during the night, waking you up with the roar of the burner.

You may need to bring extra water in jerry cans. The limiting factor will be gray water storage.

If you have some free time, click on my "about the trailer" link in my signature -- then type "modifications" into the search bar. Some of my supposed modifications are very ordinary, others are too complicated, but a few might actually be useful, since we boondock a lot. (Sadly, I am too lazy to go back and edit the blog so that only the good stuff remains.)

Old PA is getting downright "with the times!". Dispersed camping is now permitted in (select) locations via permit...info under camping/motorized camping/dispersed camping on the DCNR site. Dogs permitted in (select) cabin rentals within the state system. Even adult beverage sales in (select) convenience/grocery stores! 🙂

From your post, it seems like you leave the one 12V connected, with the second battery in storage? And then swap them out 1-for-1 when the original hits 50%?

The r-pod has a spot on the tongue for the battery(ies). Do you see any problem with putting two 12V side-by-side (in parallel), probably in protective battery boxes, to begin with? Since it's still 12V, just of higher capacity, I'm hopeful that it wouldn't compromise the on-board battery monitoring system.

Thanks again for all the great info - much appreciated!

[JiminDenver]

I can understand getting the up grades at the beginning, just be careful about what they are charging you and what you get.

A solar trickle charger is meant to maintain your battery while in storage not recharge it while you camp. Ask the dealer to instal a trickle charger or maintainer and you may get a 15w panel when you may really need 10 times as much.

Another consideration is how much extra you may pay to get it rolled into the loan. What a dealer charges for a extra battery, propane tank or solar can be well above what you would pay for it yourself. This is especially true for solar.

You mentioned the solar strips and the only ones I know of are Uni-solar strips. The smallest is 65w and 9 feet long. You could drape one or two on the trailer when you are parked in the sun or roll them out on the ground when the trailer is in the shade. 65w isn't a lot of power so I would think two are in order.

We have two 20 pound propane tanks that we fill once a season. It's cold at night where we go, so lots of furnace use.

Replacing the incandescent lights with LED not for the horrendous price the dealer will want but rather a few bucks each off of ebay will save your battery like nothing else. We did it and instead of using a light or two, we light up the trailer at night like we do the house and never even think of it.

On the extra battery, don't let the dealer put two grp 24 batteries in. They will work but a pair of 6v will serve you much better and hold more capacity as well.

So now you will have two propane tanks, two batteries, some solar and LEDs. Unless you will need the air conditioning, I can't see you needing a generator for the short trips. It would be a prudent back up on the longer trips but you can always get away with turning the truck around, hooking up a set of heavy jumper cables and running it for a hour or so if the batteries get too low.

The one thing you didn't mention is fresh water and holding tanks. How big are the tanks on the R-pod? Honey and I can stretch 60 gallons to two weeks including showers and washing real dishes daily. Teaching kids how to not waste water is harder, do have plans for carrying extra?

[pnichols]

Regarding drycamping in general, if you want to kindof "be ready for anything at any time" when out and about with your TT you can't have too much capacity in anything - just more than you can afford or fit.

I've seen comments in many drycamping threads regarding grey water tank capacity. Remember that if your TT has a black water tank (as opposed to a casette toilet), then you can extend your grey water storage capacity camping time merely by off-loading your grey water into your black water tank. We do this all the time in our Class C motorhome. We dump grey water down our toilet to free up room in our grey water tank.

Two batteries are always good. More propane is especially good because it's a bit of a nuisance to refill on trips. In case of inclement weather, why go home due to dead batteries when a small quiet generator could keep you out of trouble. Carry as much fresh water as possible aboard at all times. If you want some solar capacity for sunny days, make it portable solar that can be placed away from your TT in the sun while the TT is in the shade.

Another factor many with small TTs may not be aware of: Consider putting tires on the TT that are larger diameter than what most likely came on it. Larger diameter tires wear better and are more blowout proof because they generate less internal heat (less revolutions per mile) when going down the road with any given weight TT - this is especially important when traveling in hot weather. I know from (a bad) experience on this.

Good luck - keep us posted as/if you modify your rig for better drycamping!

[atreis]

Figure out how much electric you really need... To conserve, switch to LED lights, and be careful with what you turn on. You'll also need to conserve water - for us this is usually the limiting factor.

2 6V batteries work much more nicely than the standard 12V.

Mount solar panels on the roof (I have a single 115W, which serves us okay - but you'll have to figure out if you need more).

If you don't want to install a double propane tank holder, you can always just carry a second tank and change it out when the first goes empty.

[profdant139]

I didn't know that DCNR allowed dispersed camping -- gotta check it out when we go back East! Very cool.

An R-Pod is a fine choice for what you intend to do. My only problem with them was the headroom in the kitchen area -- I am 6'3", and I am the cook, and the roof curves down. Very well built trailer, and pretty good mileage due to the shape. Maybe consider an axle flip for more ground clearance?

For three days, you do not need a second tank. We do a lot of cold weather camping and have never had to use our second tank.

Two batteries mounted side by side on the tongue is a great idea -- the bigger, the better. We have two 110 amp hour Group 31s. One will last us three or four days in cold weather. We use one and then swap out the spare. Be sure to learn proper battery maintenance tricks and tips -- I ruined a few batteries before I figured it out.

With the hot water, as soon as shower time is over, turn it off. No reason to have it cycle on during the night, waking you up with the roar of the burner.

You may need to bring extra water in jerry cans. The limiting factor will be gray water storage.

If you have some free time, click on my "about the trailer" link in my signature -- then type "modifications" into the search bar. Some of my supposed modifications are very ordinary, others are too complicated, but a few might actually be useful, since we boondock a lot. (Sadly, I am too lazy to go back and edit the blog so that only the good stuff remains.)