Andersen Aluminum Ultimate Hitch Redesigned

[jerem0621]

I follow Andersen hitches on Facebook and they have announced a redesign of their Aluminum Ultimate Fifth Wheel Hitch...here are some screen shots of the Facebook post.





Thanks!

Jeremiah

[Sport45]

jerem0621 wrote:
I have always understood Cummins argument to be that there is no way to put an actual padlock on the locking handle... This is a valid concern... even if its a 99.9999% never a problem... the wonderer with mischievous intent and a little knowledge could easily un twist the handle while someone is stopped.

I don't think it would take much.. literally pennies in manufacturing... to allow the lock handle to have a tab that matched up to the body of the twist lock so that the owner could simply install a padlock for some peace of mind.


Thanks!

Jeremiah

I agree. And it could be set up to accept something bigger than a dime store padlock. With a little thought, it looks like they could put a lock cylinder in the handle that would allow it to free spin on the shaft when you want it secured.

[Sport45]

laknox wrote:
Personally, I'd like to see them test-to-destruction 4 hitches, with forces applied fore/aft and left/right. Maybe 8 hitches with forces applied at a 45 on each corner, too... I think they would be a =lot= more real-world than a crush test. My first thought after watching the video was, "nice, but how does that apply to actual towing?"

Lyle

I'd like to see that too. But But it would be meaningless without the results of similar testing on other 5th wheel hitches provided for comparison.

[jerem0621]

IdaD wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

laknox wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

N-Trouble wrote:
What does locking the RV to the hitch accomplish?

It will keep someone from pulling the handle and have the possibility of the RV disconnecting from the hitch. Yes it can and has happened.

Don't see how that could happen with a ball hitch, unless it's unlatched and you hit a =massive= bump or pot hole, enough to lift the entire rig off the roadway. You don't back into an Andersen like a FW, you drop the pin box ON the ball, just as you do with a GN trailer.

Lyle

I fully understand how the Andersen system works and I also understand there are conditions on Americas highways that the RV could easily pop off the Andersen.

Example we were traveling on I-15 and took a exit the asphalt was gouged down for re paving. My RV hit the dip so hard the RV and truck was airborne. Our KitchenAid mixmaster always sat on the kitchen slide and is very heavy it went from it's place to the island made a mark on the Corian and then proceeded to end up on the dining table. So I guarantee if I had a Andersen and someone pulled the handle the RV would have become dislodged!

IMHO a BIG shortcoming of the Andersen is the inability to be able to lock the rV to the hitch.

You keep bringing this up and it's apparent that you've never been around an Andersen hitch. When you push the lever in to lock the pin that holds the adapter to the ball, and then twist it firmly, it won't disconnect even if you drop it off a cliff. It certainly doesn't loosen and then disengage on it's own.

I have always understood Cummins argument to be that there is no way to put an actual padlock on the locking handle... This is a valid concern... even if its a 99.9999% never a problem... the wonderer with mischievous intent and a little knowledge could easily un twist the handle while someone is stopped.

I don't think it would take much.. literally pennies in manufacturing... to allow the lock handle to have a tab that matched up to the body of the twist lock so that the owner could simply install a padlock for some peace of mind.


Thanks!

Jeremiah

[IdaD]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

laknox wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

N-Trouble wrote:
What does locking the RV to the hitch accomplish?

It will keep someone from pulling the handle and have the possibility of the RV disconnecting from the hitch. Yes it can and has happened.

Don't see how that could happen with a ball hitch, unless it's unlatched and you hit a =massive= bump or pot hole, enough to lift the entire rig off the roadway. You don't back into an Andersen like a FW, you drop the pin box ON the ball, just as you do with a GN trailer.

Lyle

I fully understand how the Andersen system works and I also understand there are conditions on Americas highways that the RV could easily pop off the Andersen.

Example we were traveling on I-15 and took a exit the asphalt was gouged down for re paving. My RV hit the dip so hard the RV and truck was airborne. Our KitchenAid mixmaster always sat on the kitchen slide and is very heavy it went from it's place to the island made a mark on the Corian and then proceeded to end up on the dining table. So I guarantee if I had a Andersen and someone pulled the handle the RV would have become dislodged!

IMHO a BIG shortcoming of the Andersen is the inability to be able to lock the rV to the hitch.

You keep bringing this up and it's apparent that you've never been around an Andersen hitch. When you push the lever in to lock the pin that holds the adapter to the ball, and then twist it firmly, it won't disconnect even if you drop it off a cliff. It certainly doesn't loosen and then disengage on it's own.

[fj12ryder]

minnow wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:
...

As far as the guy now using the upgraded design, I believe he was given that one by Anderson. I don't think he went out and bought it. He had purchased the aluminum one after using the steel one and then it was damaged. Anderson replaced the damaged unit with the new design. Whether he would have bought another Anderson is moot at this point.

If the person whose hitch was damaged is now still using the Andersen, it's far from a moot point.

The point was that he is using an Anderson hitch that was given to him by Anderson, not one that he purchased to replace the one that was damaged. So whether he would have bought another one is debatable, i.e. a moot point.

[MFL]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Imagine the bed of the truck is not there for a minute. With the RV hooked up what does the hitch do???? It would move forward when braking and backward when accelerating. and both directions when hitting a bridge. The FACT is the BED of the truck is supporting the weight that is applied to the Andersen hitch!

Yes, this is the reason why I mentioned earlier in the thread, that if I used the Andersen hitch, I would want the rail version. I do think that most would agree, that a puck version would be a big advantage. I would think Andersen would have this in the works right now.

Jerry

[Cummins12V98]

Imagine the bed of the truck is not there for a minute. With the RV hooked up what does the hitch do???? It would move forward when braking and backward when accelerating. and both directions when hitting a bridge. The FACT is the BED of the truck is supporting the weight that is applied to the Andersen hitch!

[minnow]

fj12ryder wrote:
...

As far as the guy now using the upgraded design, I believe he was given that one by Anderson. I don't think he went out and bought it. He had purchased the aluminum one after using the steel one and then it was damaged. Anderson replaced the damaged unit with the new design. Whether he would have bought another Anderson is moot at this point.

If the person whose hitch was damaged is now still using the Andersen, it's far from a moot point.

[Cummins12V98]

laknox wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

N-Trouble wrote:
What does locking the RV to the hitch accomplish?

It will keep someone from pulling the handle and have the possibility of the RV disconnecting from the hitch. Yes it can and has happened.

Don't see how that could happen with a ball hitch, unless it's unlatched and you hit a =massive= bump or pot hole, enough to lift the entire rig off the roadway. You don't back into an Andersen like a FW, you drop the pin box ON the ball, just as you do with a GN trailer.

Lyle

I fully understand how the Andersen system works and I also understand there are conditions on Americas highways that the RV could easily pop off the Andersen.

Example we were traveling on I-15 and took a exit the asphalt was gouged down for re paving. My RV hit the dip so hard the RV and truck was airborne. Our KitchenAid mixmaster always sat on the kitchen slide and is very heavy it went from it's place to the island made a mark on the Corian and then proceeded to end up on the dining table. So I guarantee if I had a Andersen and someone pulled the handle the RV would have become dislodged!

IMHO a BIG shortcoming of the Andersen is the inability to be able to lock the rV to the hitch.

[laknox]

WTP-GC wrote:
The detractors talk about the "crush test" being a non-real world demonstration. I would heartily disagree with such a notion. The structural support is derived from 4 legs that travel from the center point (of the load) to each corner in an angled orientation. When the hydraulic ram compresses the center point, it initially places all 4 legs in a combination of compression, tension and sheer. Once any single leg fails, it begins to deform, which immediately places the other 3 legs in more tension and sheer. Because this pressure is directly downward, the applied forces are greater.

If the legs were straight horizontal or vertical, then the crush test would be completely useless.

Transfer that thinking to a real-world application. In a fore-aft force situation, 2 legs will be placed in tension and the opposite 2 legs will be placed in compression. Where one set of legs of pushing, the other set is pulling. The sheer force is more limited in this scenario. With the crimped end design of the legs, this could mean the hitch may take more fore-aft pressure than what the crush test shows. Also, since the legs are angled, they're getting less variation in forces with fore-aft movement present.

A test of fore-aft pressures might not yield the same results of the crush test. Since no one knows the answer, nor are we privied to any calculations, we're just as well to consider that it may take more force just as easily as we should consider it to take less force. But I contend that the limiting factor in such a scenario will be the rail system or the gooseneck ball, or other sheer connections. My hitch clearly states a 24,000# limit and 4,500# tongue limit. If the engineers of this hitch are wrong, then Andersen stands the chance of being sued into oblivion.

Yes, Andersen has redesigned their hitches (typical product improvement), and they've yet to recall any previous generations nor issue any revised limitations. I'm inclined to listen to them more than internet forum contributions. Yes, some products will inherently break, fail, or otherwise be unsatisfactory. But no other hitch manufacturer (B & W, Reese, PullRite, etc.) can ever make the claim that 100% of their products are free of defect.

Personally, I'd like to see them test-to-destruction 4 hitches, with forces applied fore/aft and left/right. Maybe 8 hitches with forces applied at a 45 on each corner, too... I think they would be a =lot= more real-world than a crush test. My first thought after watching the video was, "nice, but how does that apply to actual towing?"

Lyle

[WTP-GC]

fj12ryder wrote:

Seems to me that that if what you're thinking were applicable, then it should have shown there would be problems with a panic stop and lots of weight shift to the hitch. That should have resulted in a design change before now perhaps.

Just because a problem resulted from one case of a panic stop on a truck/trailer combination that none of us are familiar with, a hitch installed in a manner that none of us can confirm to be correct...its not enough to discredit an entire product line.

I've also read the Amazon reviews, and only remember seeing 1 complaint about the hitch bending. Again, its impossible for us to know if the hitch was installed properly or what the scenario was.

[fj12ryder]

"Until someone from Andersen comments or an engineer hops on here and performs calcs, I don't believe its fair to insinuate that the crush test is only a test of pin weight. With all the moment stresses at play and with the design of the legs, a crush test can apply similar forces that would be experienced in a panic stop."

Seems to me that that if what you're thinking were applicable, then it should have shown there would be problems with a panic stop and lots of weight shift to the hitch. That should have resulted in a design change before now perhaps.

As far as the guy now using the upgraded design, I believe he was given that one by Anderson. I don't think he went out and bought it. He had purchased the aluminum one after using the steel one and then it was damaged. Anderson replaced the damaged unit with the new design. Whether he would have bought another Anderson is moot at this point.

[WTP-GC]

ramgunner wrote:

I agree about the crush test. It shows that it can hold the pin weight, but does not show how well it can handle front/back stresses that will come up in a real-world situation like a panic stop.

Until someone from Andersen comments or an engineer hops on here and performs calcs, I don't believe its fair to insinuate that the crush test is only a test of pin weight. With all the moment stresses at play and with the design of the legs, a crush test can apply similar forces that would be experienced in a panic stop.

For the person who's unit was damaged, it appears that the damage was done in the shaft and coupler. One upper section of the leg bent as well, but there's no way of knowing which occurred first. I can easily see this occurring if the coupler isn't fully tightened against the ball, or if the body coupler sleeve isn't tightened against the frame. Both items are very clearly explained by the instructions and do not add any more complexity to the system. It should also be noted that the person was a repeat Andersen Ultimate customer, and is now using the upgraded version, so their confidence was not lost.

I am in no way an Andersen kool-aid drinker. In my old TV I have a Reese Hitch (single jaw style) that performs flawlessly, despite being several years old. But with my TV and having a flat bed, I could find no other option except for the Andersen. I did an exhaustive search through the dark reaches of the internet, but the Andersen was the only thing that would work for my application. So yes, I have one and I like it...but not that I can do anything about it besides modifying the truck.

edit:
While I was typing, "rhagfo" chimed in with a similar comment about the movement of the damaged unit. I kinda wonder if the GN ball in the truck is designed too loosely. I've been looking for a fixed-mount GN ball hitch as well, but no luck.

[rhagfo]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"In a fore-aft force situation, 2 legs will be placed in tension and the opposite 2 legs will be placed in compression."

I would agree if the 4 legs were on a solid platform and could not move but the fact is the Ultimate hitch does move fore and aft.

I am wondering if all they did was use the crush test to determine how they rated their hitch???

I do like that I have gone from being a "BASHER" to a "DETRACTOR" :B

Well they are not designed to move forward and backward.

The picture of the bent one, did move forward about an inch to maybe an inch and a half.
I think the engineers should look at how high they are applying force to the GN ball in the TV. The coupling looks to be between 10' to 12" tall. The need to have it much shorter, and attached to the base frame not the upper ball mount. While the new, new design with the side gussets might prevent bending in the same situation, but not 100 percent sure.

[laknox]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

N-Trouble wrote:
What does locking the RV to the hitch accomplish?

It will keep someone from pulling the handle and have the possibility of the RV disconnecting from the hitch. Yes it can and has happened.

Don't see how that could happen with a ball hitch, unless it's unlatched and you hit a =massive= bump or pot hole, enough to lift the entire rig off the roadway. You don't back into an Andersen like a FW, you drop the pin box ON the ball, just as you do with a GN trailer.

Lyle