Fitting a FW to a TV

[Padlin]

Didn't want to side track the thread on Bed Rail Clearance problems but I'm trying to determine if a perspective FW will have enough bed rail clearance before I order it. The trailer is cross country so I need to do this over the phone. Would hate to fin out after driving 3000 miles that the trailer doesn't fit the truck.
I see the hitches seem to be somewhat adjustable, 16-19" for the B&W Patriot, but nothing else and I assume a tandem axle 5th should ride level. Pin weight is under 1k, payload of the truck is 2.2k.
The measurement from the ground to the base of the pin box plate on the leveled 5th should equal the truck bed height + 16"-19".
At this point I'd need the ground to bedroom floor trailer height. This measurement would need to be 6" more then the truck bed rail height.

Would appreciate it if someone could tell me if I'm figuring this correctly.

[Padlin]

Dayle1 wrote:

With leaf springs on tandem axle trailers, the center connection is an equalizer arm with both springs connected to it. It will pivot so that both springs carry an equal amount of weight. If the trailer is truly going to have leaf springs, then it really needs a sub frame rather than just blocks or longer shackles, otherwise those extensions will result in higher side forces on the trailer frame and may twist it or break welds. On the other hand, it sounds like the manufacturer is probably making a switch from torsion axles to leaf springs to raise the trailer high enough for use with 1/2 T trucks.

Understood on both points, good information. I know the idea was to have the ability to raise the trailer for today's higher 1/2T trucks as well as leave it lowered as needed for 1/4T trucks. The use of a frame as opposed to just blocks makes sense, will need to see what they have planned. I read they were going to get together with the axle manufacturer and come up with the best way to accomplish this as they are new to using leaf springs.

[john_bet]

I would think that the manufacture should know what the ground to bottom of over hang height is. They should also know what the range of vertical adjustment is on the standard pin box is. To me it should be part of the design so I would ask them point blank and make that point a part of the deal. Just me.

[Dayle1]

Padlin wrote:
Dayle, supposed to be leaf spring. What's load equalization?

With leaf springs on tandem axle trailers, the center connection is an equalizer arm with both springs connected to it. It will pivot so that both springs carry an equal amount of weight. If the trailer is truly going to have leaf springs, then it really needs a sub frame rather than just blocks or longer shackles, otherwise those extensions will result in higher side forces on the trailer frame and may twist it or break welds. On the other hand, it sounds like the manufacturer is probably making a switch from torsion axles to leaf springs to raise the trailer high enough for use with 1/2 T trucks.

[Padlin]

Dayle, supposed to be leaf spring. What's load equalization?

[Dayle1]

Padlin wrote:
Thanks all for the info, the manufacturer, Escape, is coming out with a 20' tandem axle all fiberglass trailer (think Scamp) that's supposed to fit full size trucks. Their previous single axle model was built for small 1/4 T trucks. They are using a 3-4" block when needed at the suspension. I want to make sure it's the right height before I go out and get it this summer. They have yet to complete the first unit do specs are not available but at least now I know what to check for. The bed rails on my truck are at 56" unloaded so if they come up to typical as Larry mentions, then I'll be good to go.

Well, the Escape will almost certainly have a pin weight under 700 lbs and the F150 may drop just an inch or so with that weight. And since the Escape is using rubber torsion axles, it can only be raised with a sub frame or blocks. If you are ordering it, then just tell the manufacturer the height of your F150 plus the clearance you want and make them select the right size spacer blocks. Also, with such a short trailer, being a few inches out of level will not be acceptable for camping while hooked up. Finally, rubber torsion axles don't have load equalization capability, resulting in unequal axle loading and tire wear. If Escape wants to built a unit for 1/2 T trucks, then they should do whats necessary to get it right.

[Padlin]

Close, it's the replacement for that one. These are the preliminary plans.

[mdamerell]

Escape 5.0 is this what you are looking at? I know someone else who ordered one of these. She's pretty excited about it.

Only thing missing is the toilet.

[Deckape]

If you're planning on towing a 5th wheel with a 1/2 ton Pickup, be VERY sure the truck can handle it! I ordered out a 'Heavy Half' pick up with trailer towing in mind. When I converted to a 5th wheel about 5 years later, and the pick up literally "exploded from within" within the next 2 years. Engine overhaul, Transmission overhaul, and differential replacement were necessary. I take good care of my vehicles, and do oil changes and other maintenance every 3K, so the failure wasn't from abuse. The truck simply just couldn't handle the weight/load combination.

[MFL]

Deb and Ed M wrote:
LOL!! Just did these measurements yesterday, to make sure everything will work (and that we had enough clearance for a tool box in the bed of the (long bed) truck) - and agree with the 48" from ground-to-hitch plate measurement. Our Reese 16k sliding hitch plate is only 3" below the bed sides. It looks like we'll have about 7-8" clearance at the top of the bed sides. If the truck (2011 F-350 2-wheel drive) squats a couple of inches, the trailer might actually be nose-down by an inch or so - I'm assuming that's OK?

IMO, a FW tows best, at level, to just slightly nose high. It sounds like you will be a good fit though.

Good luck,
Jerry

[Padlin]

Thanks all for the info, the manufacturer, Escape, is coming out with a 20' tandem axle all fiberglass trailer (think Scamp) that's supposed to fit full size trucks. Their previous single axle model was built for small 1/4 T trucks. They are using a 3-4" block when needed at the suspension. I want to make sure it's the right height before I go out and get it this summer. They have yet to complete the first unit do specs are not available but at least now I know what to check for. The bed rails on my truck are at 56" unloaded so if they come up to typical as Larry mentions, then I'll be good to go.

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

LOL!! Just did these measurements yesterday, to make sure everything will work (and that we had enough clearance for a tool box in the bed of the (long bed) truck) - and agree with the 48" from ground-to-hitch plate measurement. Our Reese 16k sliding hitch plate is only 3" below the bed sides. It looks like we'll have about 7-8" clearance at the top of the bed sides. If the truck (2011 F-350 2-wheel drive) squats a couple of inches, the trailer might actually be nose-down by an inch or so - I'm assuming that's OK?

[Dayle1]

Generally, when the fifth wheel is sitting level, the distance from the ground to the king pin base is around 46-48 inches. This has been a standard number for many years even though tow vehicles have gotten taller. Some fifth wheel manufacturers have even included this number in their specs, but that is rare. Distance from the ground to the underside of the trailer body is typically 60 inches with the pin box in standard mounting holes. Anyway, if you want say 6" of clearance, then the truck bed height should be 54 inches when loaded. Usually, 56 inches unloaded will just work.

If the fifth wheel is a few inches nose high, that will still be OK. Between adjustability of the hitch and pin box you should be able to get the right setup. Some fifth wheels also have adjustable spring hangers to raise the trailer a few inches.

If the trailer is an older unit, you may need to "flip the axles". However, with the light trailer you have described and the very tall Ford F150, you may need to have a sub frame added to the trailer frame to lift it higher.

Finally, some older, very light fifth wheels used a 42 inch high king pin height and 13" tires rather than the 46-48 inch number, and that will be an extreme problem for a newer F150.

[Padlin]

It is small, approx 5k gvwr so I'm guessing at under 1k pin.

[MFL]

Yes, you are figuring right. If you can measure from the ground to top of bed rail of the truck, that figure will help. If you can have someone measure the FW over hang, by pin box, with FW level, you will have a good idea.

The truck should squat 1-2 inches, to level the bed rails. If pin weight is under 1k, it will depend on the TV.

That seems like a very light pin, must be a small trailer?

Jerry