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[quentinlindsay]

New here.
Looking for a little help on a few issues.
First, I have a 2013 Ram 2500 single with cummins 6.7l and I am looking at a 38ft 5th @ 10800 dry weight. Anyone see any issues towing that combination??
Also, that trailer puts me over for the standard class 5 drivers license in my area (New Brunswick, Canada)so I would technically require a commercial class 3... however, I am hearing from many people that tow large RV's that they don't bother as enforcement of this for RV's is virtually non existent. Anyone care to weigh in on that?

[sh410]

Snip: "
I know from my work that there are "error" factors built into these ratings so that there is some room for people (like me) who push the limit. Usually it is anywhere from 25 to 50%. Rarely less than 25%. In other words, the real designed payload for 2600 rated would be 3250 to 3900lb."

So there you have it, It's official! I think the OP should remove the rating sickers from the truck and tear out those pages from the manual!

I wonder about the tire weight ratings. Oh yeah those are under rated also.:W

[Allworth]

You gotta love people who make up their mind and then post a question!

[cummins2014]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Find out what the GVWR of the RV is then take 25% that is what you should figure as your pin weight. Load your truck with bodies, fuel, hitch gear and hit the scales. Take your RAWR and subtract your actual rear axle weight. If the 25% number is less you are fine.

Personally I would not tow anything that long with a SRW.

YOU DO THE MATH.

Well that figure may work for some, if I used those numbers you gave I would have a pin weight of 3875 , not hardly, mine is 2420 fully LOADED on the scales ,not a calculator. GVWR on mine is 15500. YOU DO THE MATH !!!!!!

My advice to the OP ,get the weights off the scales, not off the internet .

[Cummins12V98]

I knew I had the wrong gears for my load when buying the truck. They said they would replace the front and rear ring and pinion for $1,500 (great price) but after towing with it I was very happy so I declined their offer. Starting on a steep grade is the only negative with my load.

I think after seeing what people like me were doing with their 3:42 geared trucks they decided that all 2500/3500 SRW trucks would be fine with the 3:42's.

[Dayle1]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

dballentine wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
...

There should be some common sense used with these ratings.

Example my truck and trailer combined max rating is only around 18K with 3:42 gears. The exact same truck with 4:10's is rated combined at 30K. In my opinion all I am doing is possibly wearing out the drivetrain. My combo weighs 28K.

To be any use at all, standards have to be objective. Keep in mind that the standards have a number of criteria; the GCWR (and thus tow rating) is based on the lowest weight at which a particular truck will pass all the criteria.

So your truck with the 3.42 might meet all the criteria at a certain weight except for one; it fails at that weight. And close doesn't count. If the criteria is "Maintain 40mph up an 11 mile 7% grade" and the truck can only maintain 39mph, it hasn't passed.

Like I said I may damage the drivetrain (don't think so). But it is just as capable of getting the load down the road safely as the one with 4:10's.

My 15 RAM will have factory rear air ride and 4:10's.

My understanding is that GCWR differences due to different axle ratios is basically a question of performance and not drivetrain/frame/brake strength. Meaning acceleration and hill climbing ability with identical weight will be less with the 3.42 compared to the 4.10 ratio. And when exceeding GCWR, that level of performance is less than the target set by the manufacturer. Maybe there is a risk of accelerated ring and pinion wear, but otherwise if the owner can live with lower performance, then there may be no other issues with being over GCWR. Just what I've heard/read, as I've never been over GCWR.

[Cummins12V98]

dballentine wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
...

There should be some common sense used with these ratings.

Example my truck and trailer combined max rating is only around 18K with 3:42 gears. The exact same truck with 4:10's is rated combined at 30K. In my opinion all I am doing is possibly wearing out the drivetrain. My combo weighs 28K.

To be any use at all, standards have to be objective. Keep in mind that the standards have a number of criteria; the GCWR (and thus tow rating) is based on the lowest weight at which a particular truck will pass all the criteria.

So your truck with the 3.42 might meet all the criteria at a certain weight except for one; it fails at that weight. And close doesn't count. If the criteria is "Maintain 40mph up an 11 mile 7% grade" and the truck can only maintain 39mph, it hasn't passed.

Like I said I may damage the drivetrain (don't think so). But it is just as capable of getting the load down the road safely as the one with 4:10's.

My 15 RAM will have factory rear air ride and 4:10's.

[dballentine]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
...

There should be some common sense used with these ratings.

Example my truck and trailer combined max rating is only around 18K with 3:42 gears. The exact same truck with 4:10's is rated combined at 30K. In my opinion all I am doing is possibly wearing out the drivetrain. My combo weighs 28K.

To be any use at all, standards have to be objective. Keep in mind that the standards have a number of criteria; the GCWR (and thus tow rating) is based on the lowest weight at which a particular truck will pass all the criteria.

So your truck with the 3.42 might meet all the criteria at a certain weight except for one; it fails at that weight. And close doesn't count. If the criteria is "Maintain 40mph up an 11 mile 7% grade" and the truck can only maintain 39mph, it hasn't passed.

[Pipeman]

I'll add my 2 cents. If you live in Ontario, Canada and your total combined weight is 11000 Kilos( 24,600lbs)then you can use a class g license. If over that combined weight you require a class A ticket. It might still be called a class AR license. I have a 1 ton dually, crew cab, 4x4, long box and a 35 ft 5th wheel. Last time I was weighed it was 23,900 lbs. That's the wife and I, the 5er fully loaded with water, 60 gallons fresh, 10 gallon water heater, 50 gallon aux fuel tank in the bed and fully packed for an extended boondocking trip and/or a 3 month trip. I'm within the class D ticket I hold and have lots of room for payload. I had a 3/4 crew cab, 4x4, short box and pulled the same 5er. I was over the GVWR, now I'm not and feel much safer. You can PULL the 5er with no problem but your braking power leaves a bit to be desired. Do a panic stop and you'll find where the trailer pushes the truck. You're going to do what you want anyway, it sounds like, so have at it and good luck to you and the family.

[Cummins12V98]

I am way the He!! over my GVWR of 12,300# with 13,960 sitting on 6 tires. But I only add 200# to the front axle when loaded and am under the rear axle rating with 8,780 sitting on the rear duals.

How much weight is sitting on the rear tires? That is the real question.

There should be some common sense used with these ratings.

Example my truck and trailer combined max rating is only around 18K with 3:42 gears. The exact same truck with 4:10's is rated combined at 30K. In my opinion all I am doing is possibly wearing out the drivetrain. My combo weighs 28K.

[Old-Biscuit]

quentinlindsay wrote:
I have the 2013 Ram 2500 Laramie Longhorn Crew Cab 4X4. It is rated @ 370 ponies @ 2800 RPM, and has 800 ft-lbs @ 1600 RPM. There is no doubt about the juice to pull. Rated for 17000 and change to pull. As for stopping, it has factory electric brake control with auto sensing adjustments as well as factory J Brake with auto sensing or manual if wanted. Also has hill assist. HD alternator and transmission cooler. This model also has auto air intake that decides if it wants to take air from the cab or the outside depending on temperature/humidity etc...
As for the weights, I am fortunate to work where there is a scale, and weighed in today. 4940lbs on front axles and 2960 on rear with me and a cup of water and a smile from ear to ear. I got a hot little wife and a 3 and 6 year old whose combined weight might equal that of my 225lbs. Throw in a bit of "junk" for the road (200lbs at most as anything else would be in trailer), and if that was split between the front and rear axles evenly then you could say that I got 8600lbs total for truck. So far, that is 700 or so payload from the 2600 the truck is rated for. That leaves me 1900.
Trailer I am looking at is a copper canyon 324fwbhs (2014), and it has a dry weight of 10800lbs and tongue of 2100lbs @ 20%. Yes, that is a little over the payload for the truck that is left, but if I load properly that can be compensated a little, and if not, then well If that truck can't handle 200lbs over then I should have left it there at the dealer (and helped you Ford and Chev guys with pushing your trucks home.. LOL). I know from my work that there are "error" factors built into these ratings so that there is some room for people (like me) who push the limit. Usually it is anywhere from 25 to 50%. Rarely less than 25%. In other words, the real designed payload for 2600 rated would be 3250 to 3900lb.s, but the lower number is the "safety net" to protect the engineers, Ram, etc...from liability for people who push the limit. After all, if they said it was good for 3900lbs because that what tests showed to be the limit, then people would be all over them like gravy for the anomalies that snapped just below the test limits.
What I am really interested in is hearing from people with similar vehicles and set ups and hear how they have fared in regards to tranny's, control, heating etc...
Again thank to all those who are trying to help - and thanks to the condescending bunch as well as you keep a smile on my face and entertain me.

You forgot some numbers
Trucks GVWR...that is only 10,000#
If truck camp ready weighs 8600# (your guesstimate) then you only have 1400# payload left.

The trailer has a GVWR of 14K....'wet' pin weight will be closer to 2800#

Now you are 1400# OVER....2X available payload.

[fly4fun]

Holy cow !!!!! The truck and trailer combo will run just fine. Don't freak the guy out. He has a pretty capable
truck. As for the police ….. F***k em , you probably will never get asked or checked. They are all too busy writing tickets to speeders to support the municipality of their choice. Go enjoy life and don't sweat the petty stuff.

[Dayle1]

quentinlindsay wrote:
So far, that is 700 or so payload from the 2600 the truck is rated for. That leaves me 1900.

Please add 200 lbs for the hitch.

quentinlindsay wrote:
Trailer I am looking at is a copper canyon 324fwbhs (2014), and it has a dry weight of 10800lbs and tongue of 2100lbs @ 20%. Yes, that is a little over the payload for the truck that is left, but if I load properly that can be compensated a little, .

On most fivers, with so much storage located so far forward plus batteries/propane and little storage behind the axles, it is difficult to "compensate", I've tried that strategy on multiple fivers. Anyway if the dry pin weight is 20%, wet always increases at a higher percentage, like 40%. So add 1500 lbs wet and 600 lbs of that is likely to show up on the pin. So adding in hitch weight and cargo you are at 2900 lbs vs. 1900 lbs available. This is more than just a little overweight. There are plenty of owners here that weigh their rigs regularly and can give you their experiences with dry vs. wet pin weights.

If you ignore the truck's GVWR and focus only on GAWR, which is probably about 6084 lbs, then you have 3100 lbs available and you will likely have a few hundred lbs margin. Again, the GAWR is tire capacity limited and your families safety is 100% tied to tire reliability. Adding a TPMS with real psi and temp readings might be wise, or upgrading to higher capacity tires. Or maybe you are fortunate with higher rated tires already (please check) and a GAWR above 6084 lbs.

With fivers, the right term is pin weight, not tongue weight.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

quentinlindsay -

If you already know the answers - why ask the question/s?

Yes - there are lots of folks who *successfully* tow heavy trailers
with SRW pickups - - WAY beyond rated capabilities.

"Officially" that's wrong, illegal, etc., etc.
Get in an accident and a sharp attorney will dig deep enough to produce the *legalities* involved .....including proper driver's license.

A friend has a 2004 Dodge CTD, SRW 3/4 ton (he did add air bags), and
has towed his Alpenlite (they're not light) 36 footer that has an unloaded weight somewhere north of 14K - thousands of miles including multiple trips to Alaska.

A Toyota has towed a Space Shuttle.

Besides "ability" to do so, does the "go" match the "whoa"?

Suggest you spend some time on the Escapees MDT and HDT forums.
Lots of folks who have "worked their way up" from LDT to MDT to HDT.
Quite a few Maple Leafers there (for licensing input) - along with lots of folks who can match your engineering skills - including a guy who manufactures the (unquestionably) best 5th hitch available anywhere.

AMF and best wishes to/for a happy and satisfactory Q & A session...:C

~

[quentinlindsay]

That is a tow guide put out by "trailer life". Not Ram. I am using the specs provided to me from the manufacturer when I purchased the truck.