Keystone Cougar Warranty DENIAL!

[jetjocka7]

18 hours after hookup, after water had been hot using electric only, the water got cold; used propane rest of 3-day camp. Took to Camping World (CW) for warranty service; technician reported thermostat failure caused heating element to overheat which melted wiring, insulation, and plastic between thermostat and element. (heating element still works when powered but without plastic around connectors, it is unsafe for further use) CW called for warranty approval to Keystone; hours later was informed that warranty was denied. I called the owner's help line and pleaded my case; Craig said he would ask "KING COUGAR" (the name they call the Cougar warranty boss) again but he came back with the same denial. According to Craig, KING COUGAR said that the failure was caused by the element leaking internally which was not covered by warranty?? Everyone in the entire chain was dumbfounded by KING COUGAR's ability to diagnosis the element as the cause since it had not even been removed at this point. Craig did the only thing he was authorized to do and issued me a check for 1/2 the amount I was told it would cost to repair at CW.
Service manager Shawn at CW also did all he could for me. BUT the fact remains that KING COUGAR had the final say and I was left with paying the entire repair at $125 per hour labor cost (1 1/2 hrs) and two parts marked up 200+ percent on a repair which to everyone at CW was a clear cut warranty item on a 8 MONTH OLD 5th WHEEL! KING COUGAR not only ignored what the authorized repair dealer's technician diagnosed, but also dreamed up another failure scenario which he says was NOT covered under warranty.
From my perspective, that means that there is NO warranty on Keystone Cougar 5th Wheels! I got sympathetic help from one person at Keystone and one person at CW but they are middle men. The man who Keystone has in charge of warranty claims appears to have as his sworn duty, to Dream Up Denials to warranty claims!
I informed the sales department at CW and they are going to investigate WHO KING COUGAR IS so they can help get him removed as he is their enemy in the RV business, Ultimately, if there is a person in the chain who is denying legitimate warranty claims for trailer in the first year of use, it will hurt sales .... a denial of a #258 warranty claim could potentially cost the companies involved in RV sales hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales! This has been a prime example of Keystone "shooting themselves in the foot" and THE most frustrating case of warranty issues I have ever; A $258 warranty repair on a $33,000 trailer??!! Words cannot express my fury and resolve to NEVER GIVE KEYSTONE ANOTHER PENNY OF MY BUSINESS if this is the way they have evolved to treat customers! I am a retired Navy Pilot, not the idiot that KING COUGAR assumes I am. I have the parts that were removed and every blog, forum, Good Sam magazine, etc, is going to get this story and pictures of those parts which show that the element is NOT corroded! I have never been so insulted as I was yesterday by "KING COUGAR".

[Sammie1]

I was talking to a friend of mine just yesterday who has a fusion made by Keystone and he said don't buy a keystone whatever you do. He has had several issues and said it was in the shop so much the first year that he hardly got to use it. Leaning toward a Redwood.

[laknox]

jetjocka7 wrote:
Update # 2
Got $104 from Airxcel yesterday so my total repair was covered finally! Interesting letter was attached .... they regretted that they could not pay all the billed amount because the warranty claim procedures were not followed; IE they were not call up front. Here is where I fault the service department at Camping World ... they only called Keystone; not once did anyone call Airxcel the maker of the water heater or did they even mention their name or that they were the ones that actually warrant the problem; instead the service agent just reported to me that Keystone denied the claim and presented me with the bill.
I am just now fully understanding the motivation behind what happened ... Camping World would have gotten less than half the money IF they had processed the warranty claim with the proper company Airxcel; they know that, and that is why they only called Keystone who I am told does not warrant items on their trailers that they don't manufacture. PURE GREED on the part of a service department that clearly knows what they should have done but handed me the bill anyway!
I hope that other owners can benefit from my learning experience .... don't trust camping world to process a warranty claim properly .... their "directives" must be to get the most $ they can out of a repair even if it means misleading a customer into believing that there is NO WARRANTY on a 8 month old water heater. I will look for a company that will actually help me with warranty repairs when I am shopping for my next trailer.
Again, thanks to all those who have helped direct me in the right direction for this warranty claim.

Oh, Marcus! Are you listening?!

Lyle

[Old-Biscuit]

'jetjocka7'

Thanks for the updates. Glad to hear that you didn't let it drop and FINALLY got your monies spent reimbursed.

Yes during the first year of warranty KEYSTONE should have handled the claim and PAID for repairs. KING COUGAR sounds like he has his own little fiefdom.....you know the big fish in little pond syndrome. I hope you have sent a letter to upper management.

CW should have handled the warranty claim better....they aren't noobies to the sales/service issues. BUT I have never been satisfied with much of anything CW does......sales/service/customer service. As a result I do NO business with them.

Glad to see Aixcel step up and cover some of the costs. I'm discouraged that they didn't cover ALL costs as you were NOT the one that fouled up the 'claim procedures'.

Anyway..glad to see the update and results.
But more importantly....glad to see you hung in regardless of the flack.
I call that 'grit'

On by the way........WELCOME HOME! fellow NAVY guy.

[jetjocka7]

Update # 2
Got $104 from Airxcel yesterday so my total repair was covered finally! Interesting letter was attached .... they regretted that they could not pay all the billed amount because the warranty claim procedures were not followed; IE they were not call up front. Here is where I fault the service department at Camping World ... they only called Keystone; not once did anyone call Airxcel the maker of the water heater or did they even mention their name or that they were the ones that actually warrant the problem; instead the service agent just reported to me that Keystone denied the claim and presented me with the bill.
I am just now fully understanding the motivation behind what happened ... Camping World would have gotten less than half the money IF they had processed the warranty claim with the proper company Airxcel; they know that, and that is why they only called Keystone who I am told does not warrant items on their trailers that they don't manufacture. PURE GREED on the part of a service department that clearly knows what they should have done but handed me the bill anyway!
I hope that other owners can benefit from my learning experience .... don't trust camping world to process a warranty claim properly .... their "directives" must be to get the most $ they can out of a repair even if it means misleading a customer into believing that there is NO WARRANTY on a 8 month old water heater. I will look for a company that will actually help me with warranty repairs when I am shopping for my next trailer.
Again, thanks to all those who have helped direct me in the right direction for this warranty claim.

[K_sKamper]

I really think it is time we contacted the Attorney General's office in every state.

[diazr2]

Vulcaneer wrote:
Op Wrote: "Everyone in the entire chain was dumbfounded by KING COUGAR's ability to diagnosis the element as the cause since it had not even been removed at this point. "

Keystone's Cougar should be ashamed. As should Camping World. Especially CW. They are your problem.

This whole "We must apply for warranty approval from the Manufacturer is just BS." You bought the trailer from CW. They need to stand behind you. If the Manufacturer does not approve the warranty, then CW certainly should support their customer. They had no problem taking your money for the new trailer, did they? They helped you a little bit...true. But they still charged full (ridiculously high) labor rate, and socked you full retail mark up on the parts. Should you feel good about Cougar? NO! But should also not feel too good about CW.

After all...they diagnosed the problem, and described to to Cougar. For approval purposes. Appears they messed that up too. And their poor description of the problem might be the reason King Cougar shot down the approval.

I don't think you need to believe everything that CW is telling you.

JMHO

Agree 100% I have found you have to watch CW those guys are in it for the money for sure. Not much customer service goes on with CW as far as I can see

[jetjocka7]

UPDATE 2-8-14 ... got $129 from Keystone RV today; that covered 58% of what I paid Camping World to fix water heater. 🙂

[tbred]

If Camping World were to pick up the tab for all warranty service denied by the manufacturers of the products they sell, they would be out of business. Would be interesting to know if this is a common practice for Keystone.

[wildweasel7648]

I would say find a new dealership to work with - I certainly would steer clear after the warranty period. Like JMHO says, they may be telling you what you want to hear, and making themselves look self-sacrificing at the same time. Sounds like they even made a profit off you too for warranty work! Dealers don't normally like warranty work - not as much money in it as a straight up, no warranty repair..YOU pays your money and takes your chances!

[jmtandem]

WOW there really are all kinds of people that contribute to this forum. Still I appreciate it for the ones who have really helped.
I will, of course report the outcome of my attempts to recover the bill that CW presented me with to get a new thermo, a new element, and 2 new 6" wires ($225). I'm real happy that the rest of my trailer wiring was not effected and I my water heater is back to dual function.

Sounds like it is coming together for you. We are happy for that. Seems like you got your 'initiation' here at RV.net forums, huh? And the best part......you never had to step up on the platform in front of your RV.net peers and ring the quitters bell. That is great!

Now send on some trip reports with pictures. If you ever get to northern Nevada there is a beer with your name on it waiting for you.

[jetjocka7]

WOW there really are all kinds of people that contribute to this forum. Still I appreciate it for the ones who have really helped.
I will, of course report the outcome of my attempts to recover the bill that CW presented me with to get a new thermo, a new element, and 2 new 6" wires ($225). I'm real happy that the rest of my trailer wiring was not effected and I my water heater is back to dual function. I sent off the element and paperwork to Airxcel (Suburban)in hopes that they will find what I found, that the element is still good and my claim warrants approval. I actually learned a lot while I was in CW; their tech showed me all the procedures for "Blowing" out the water lines (previously I could not find how to get to the back of the water heater to turn the bypass valve); a much easier way to protect against freeze damage.
Unfortunately, I also learned, the hard way, that my local CW is not the kind of company who will do anything for a customer who has a warranty issue, even in the first year of ownership. I'm glad that some of you have dealerships that have taking care of you, but this one does not. However, there is an alternative RV company here and I will talk with some of their customers and find out if I might do better with them. HAPPY TRAILS!

[Me_Again]

jetjocka7, the righteous Eagle above you flies high and mighty. It is not to late to contact the water heater manufacturer directly and explain what happen. They will most likely make you whole again, as Keystone as a warranty agent pooped on your parade.

Write a nice letter to their CS dept with a copy of all our paperwork from CW.

Let us know what happens.

Surprisingly mobile repair guys handle these warranty issues correctly day in and day out without a problem.

Chris

[jetjocka7]

I took your advice and read the Keystone manual; I believe that Keystone should have done more than simply denying my warranty claim as seen in their writing:
"For the appliance and component manufacturers providing warranties, Keystone does, however, administer those
warranties during the term of this one year Limited Warranty except for tires, batteries, generators and washer, dryer.
All warranty service claims on components must therefore be directed during the one year of this Limited Warranty
to Keystone. After the one year period, all appliance and component warranty claims must be directed to the
respective appliance and component manufacturers."
Since I was inside the one year Keystone warranty, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect more than "your claim is denied" from them?
I admit that I should have made phone calls first; but what exactly would I have said? I removed the cover that protects the element hookups from water and saw burned plastic, insulation, and the black wire burned completely through! I was worried sick that the melted insultation would be seen all the way back to the CB panel? I didn't know the extent of the damage without taking it to an authorized dealer.
Luckily the only melted/damage was confined to the wiring between the thermo and the element and half the plastic that surrounds the connectors on the element. NOW I know that I could have repaired the whole mess for about $40 by just buying a new thermo and new element, building 2 6" wires with connectors and installing these myself, easy!
But not knowing if the rest of the wiring in the trailer might be damaged is really what drove me to CW. where the FUN began! I hope to avoid having to go back to them for service, and by seeking advice here and in other forums, maybe I won't.

[FastEagle]

Most often it’s best to address those that make the decisions before jumping into the middle of a chain of events that should take place before the jump.

The Keystone Owner’s Manual has clear instructions for those seeking warranty coverage. Doing things after the fact can always backfire into your lap just like this situation seems to have done.

Just maybe the CW doing the talking wasn’t the right place to go first. The reference outlines the procedure for such problems. Reading it first might have been more beneficial to the OP than bypassing it and going to CW and getting repairs done without approval.

Keystone Ref

FastEagle