Lippert frame issues

[retired2505]

I have a 2004 Neumar Kountry Star 5th wheel trailer, which I purchased used a few years ago. I have had no issues with it, however while camping last week the camper in the next site told me about major issues he had with the Lippert frame on his 2011 Cedar Creek 5th wheel. Can anyone tell me if Neumar used Lippert frames on their trailers? If so is there any thing I should look for that would indicate a problem? Thanks

[mudmaker]

Unfortunately Lippert can build a frame to whatever secs are on the design page in front of them. Length, height requirements should be easy to build into anything and within those requirements they can probably design anything at several different price points. ONE thing they can't control is what the rv manufacturer bolts to it when they get their hands on it. Where the majority of the weight is distributed and how the house sits on the frame and is bolted to the frame. They still have to cover their end of the warranty to the best of their ability.
That being said, I'm sure there are several in the plant that have absolutely no formal training either. Welding isn't hard but a good welder is hard to come by.fusing the metal together is just a small part of the process. Knowing what works best to do that and what the perfect surrounding conditions need to be to get to where the conditions are perfect is what most novice welders don't understand.

[Alley_Fox]

Northwood Manufacturing in La Grande, oregon builds their own frames. A few years back they had a facility in Virginia that built basically the same trailers but had to use Lippert frames due to some bureaucratic state mandated "safety" requirement as I recall. The only frame failures on NW products that I am aware of have been the ones manufactured in VA. Northwood closed that facility several years ago due to quality issues, IIRC mostly frame inegrity related problems. I've never heard of an Oregon manufactured trailer suffering from frame failure. I guess that's about as close to "apples to apples" as you can get. I've looked at my frame and everything looks solid... not pretty but welds look good.

[stetwood]

Popcorn time, 2 pages hijacked discussing everything about Lippert Frames but the OP posted and only buc1980 answered his question with one simple line, and that was Newmar made their own frames.

[Us_out_West]

And/or every other product.

[fordsd]

I am a fiver newbie, just traded in my Coachmen 30' TT for a 2008 Durango 335 LX. Should I be inspecting the frame and how would I know if it is a Lippert product?

Many Thanks

[tgreening]

Me Again wrote:
So the frame under the Montana and several others of similar size to our 29' Cardinal appear to be the same. Is there just one traveling frame engineer that spends one day a week at 5 different trailer manufacturers? Chris

I think much like the traveling floor plan designer. At one time Jayco, Dutchmen, and Heartland (at least) all had a floorplan designated "3950", which for all intents and purposes were identical. Yet the faces at the various rv shows will all tell you that they were designed by their in house engineers, or architects, or whatever it is they call the people that design these floorplans.


Have you ever seen those house floor plan books at places like Lowes or Home Depot? I swear I think there is an RV equivalent that all these companies go to get "their" floor plans from.


The Jayco tour leader was at least honest in admitting (flat out) that if they see a competitor design that is selling well, they will rip it off in a heart beat.

[Me_Again]

So the frame under the Montana and several others of similar size to our 29' Cardinal appear to be the same. Is there just one traveling frame engineer that spends one day a week at 5 different trailer manufacturers? Chris

[cummins2014]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

TxTiger wrote:
The biggest problem with Lippert frames is the manufacturer's specifications given to Lippert. Most frames are built by Lippert and built to manufacturer specifications. So if the manufacturers cheaps out on the specs then the frames are often too light for the various stress points. There have also been some complaints about poor workmanship such as sloppy welds. My unit has a Lippert frame and the welds and overall workmanship look great.

You are so right!

People bash Lippert, they really should be bashing their RV maker. They are the ones that spec "light and cheap".

The frame on our Mobile Suites is a Lippert, it looks great.

Obviously you don't know a good weld from a bad one, if you think the welds on lippert frames are truly quality welds, let me take you to our shop that I retired from ,and I will show you what a quality weld looks like. You will come out with a different idea of what quality welding is.

[cummins2014]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

RedAce wrote:
While it may be true that some RV manufacturers "underspec" frames made by Lippert, its not likely that they specified shoddy workmanship and poor welds.

When you ask for light weight frame say on a 36-40' frame you get a lot of flex and the result is broken welds.

Totally disagree, proper welds hold, the steel breaks, the weld should be stronger then the steel around it if done right, remember the object is to tie two together. Obviously you are not a welding expert. Flex all you want . Seen hundreds of weld tests, and if done right there are no welds breaking, but have seen lots of steel break. Have seen lots of steel posts hit by cars and the steel ripped loose ,but the welds held. Lippert frames that I have looked at, the majority are , stringy, ropy ,excessive weld splatter, welds not complete, etc, etc, just crappy welds. I have seen a lot of this kind of welding , usually done by guys that took a welding class in high school ,and raised their hand ,and say I can weld, and get hired by companies like lippert, trust me they may learn how to weld as time goes on , but they are not welders that I consider welders.

[Snowman9000]

Mile High wrote:
Rich,
Do ask the question. I'm curious what Lippert says.

In the last few years it seams like the 12" Lippert I-beam Z-frame with 6-pt levelers has homogenized itself equally across the board. I crawled under Montana, Landmark, Sanibel, Redwood, and a few others and there isn't 10 cents worth of difference in the frames between brands.

With possible the exception of the DRV box frame, specs dictating one frame as superior over another out of Lipperts door is a myth.

Here's my report on differences between Lippert-framed Jayco vs Crossroads.

[Cummins12V98]

RedAce wrote:
While it may be true that some RV manufacturers "underspec" frames made by Lippert, its not likely that they specified shoddy workmanship and poor welds.

When you ask for light weight frame say on a 36-40' frame you get a lot of flex and the result is broken welds.

[Cummins12V98]

TxTiger wrote:
The biggest problem with Lippert frames is the manufacturer's specifications given to Lippert. Most frames are built by Lippert and built to manufacturer specifications. So if the manufacturers cheaps out on the specs then the frames are often too light for the various stress points. There have also been some complaints about poor workmanship such as sloppy welds. My unit has a Lippert frame and the welds and overall workmanship look great.

You are so right!

People bash Lippert, they really should be bashing their RV maker. They are the ones that spec "light and cheap".

The frame on our Mobile Suites is a Lippert, it looks great.

[Rotton_Rob]

Just had my pin box replaced and some welding done on my 2002 Montana . Lippert would not help .

[cummins2014]

TxTiger wrote:
I just love Lippert frame threads. There are many and responses go from low info responses to really knowledgeable. Lots of good info from some posters.

With what looks like a recovery in RV sales, and therefore an increase in production, you would think a company could come along and compete in the frame building business. You would need to be robotic so you didn't have over 50 employees though.

It is surprising that there are not more frame builders . We did some robotic welding, not that big of deal , need a good programmer, and there are even lots of used robots out there. The two robots we had were used . If things are jigged up properly you can rock ,and roll with a robot. Having been in the steel fabrication business it's not that that difficult to jig up frames, and weld them. Frames are frames there is no mystery to them.