Non 5'er----yet

[Bobandshawn]

I am fairly new to the RV scene. I have a 2008 Keystone pull behind but am looking at getting a newer and larger 5th wheel unit. I have a Ram 2500 Mega Cab 6'4" bed 4X4 with the 6.4 Hemi. It is rated to pull 15,200 lbs. We will be looking for something in the 9K-11K lightweight trailer and try and keep the max weight below 13K or so. It is just me and the wife traveling 95% of the time, but there is the occasional grandkid tagging along at times.

We are totally confused what to get. I think we've actually looked at too many RV's and there are a bunch out there.

I am trying to get some real world evaluations from real people who use RV's quite a bit.

I fully understand the majority of units regardless of who built them use the same components and such. But so far I am of a thought that the actual construction of the trailer plays a much larger role in the reliability of the unit than pretty furniture and size of the fridge.

Any recommendations on units that are reliably build but meet my weight limitations?

Thanks for any offered help. Bob

[bid_time]

Bobandshawn wrote:

JIMNLIN wrote:

As far as hauling and towing I think you can haul a much larger load than what the factory says you can. Limitation is tires, but legally you could be in a world of hurt. If you cause a death or injury to someone in an accident you could even be criminally liable even if the weight of the rig had nothing to do with the accident. Lawyers are like that ya know!

Respectfully this comes under......Internet myth.
Every LDT truck in commercial service on the road pulling heavy trailers is carrying weight above the tire placard payload rating or a GVWR number payload rating and in that industry your scenario is a non issue so why is it just RV websites where this myth is constantly spread.

I worked in criminal law, now retired. There was a couple times load and capacity came into play in cases I worked on. I do agree it's a hard thing to prosecute criminally, but these civil attorneys can make mince meat of your insurance company come law suit time. Very well may not be that way in other states, but in California you can't throw a rock without hitting a lawyer----and he'll sue you for it.

The CHP, state police, also will get ya on it. In the majority of cases they merely give you a warning. But here is where it's something very obvious like a 1970 Datsun towing a 3 axle gooseneck with 250 bales of hay on it. Back in 1983-1984 I was pulled over by a CHP in my 1974 Dodge 3/4 ton club cab. I was carrying a load of sod and I'm sure it was way more than what the GVW was on the truck. Lucky for me this was in a mountainous area and about the time he was negotiating whether I'd accept a lesser citation or take my changes running across a scale he got called out to an accident or something so I ended up with a warning.

Bottom line is, if you are overloaded (and its apparent) you could get nabbed.


BTW, I ran my pickup across the scales on our ranch when I got home, 11,200lbs. The GVW was something like 8,600 on that old Dodge.

Buy a Travel Trailer, you can tow a lot bigger TT with the same truck then you can a 5er.

[Cummins12V98]

laknox wrote:

Bobandshawn wrote:
I am looking at a trailer with a hitch weight under 2000 lbs and preferable closer to 1850. And a total weight of 10K or so. Both figures are for the light weight.
I have been looking at hitches. I am thinking of the BD3 hitch on the truck and the Reese sidewinder as I have a short bed. Any thoughts?

I'm a B&W "fanboy", according to some, so I'll go ahead and give my recommendation for the Companion, of any flavor.

Lyle

Ditto

[laknox]

Bobandshawn wrote:
I am looking at a trailer with a hitch weight under 2000 lbs and preferable closer to 1850. And a total weight of 10K or so. Both figures are for the light weight.
I have been looking at hitches. I am thinking of the BD3 hitch on the truck and the Reese sidewinder as I have a short bed. Any thoughts?

I'm a B&W "fanboy", according to some, so I'll go ahead and give my recommendation for the Companion, of any flavor.

Lyle

[Bobandshawn]

I am looking at a trailer with a hitch weight under 2000 lbs and preferable closer to 1850. And a total weight of 10K or so. Both figures are for the light weight.
I have been looking at hitches. I am thinking of the BD3 hitch on the truck and the Reese sidewinder as I have a short bed. Any thoughts?

[Bobandshawn]

IdaD wrote:
The weight police when it comes to RVs are almost entirely online. Strap a 5er to a Jetta and yeah it could be problematic. Stay short of that and you're probably not going to encounter any issues. You almost certainly (cause nothing is 100%) will not run into any issues at all running a 3/4 ton as long as you stay within your individual and combined axle ratings.

Correct. I've never heard of anyone around here getting pulled over. I am sure a lot of cops see a 2008 Ram 2500 pulling a 3 axle toy hauler with the butt dragging and know that the truck was not built for this task. But I have seen cases in court where expert witnesses are brought in to show negligence of the defendant in an injury/death accident (there are no accidents!) which can be very damning information to the jury. Of course in every one of these cases alcohol or drugs were in play. I can't recall ever seeing anyone as a defendant battling any of the above charges.

Now, back on task----what 5'er in a 10,000-11,000 gross weight looks nice to ya'll! LOL

[IdaD]

The weight police when it comes to RVs are almost entirely online. Strap a 5er to a Jetta and yeah it could be problematic. Stay short of that and you're probably not going to encounter any issues. You almost certainly (cause nothing is 100%) will not run into any issues at all running a 3/4 ton as long as you stay within your individual and combined axle ratings.

[JIMNLIN]

The CHP, state police, also will get ya on it.

Not for being over the tire placard payload number or a mfg GVWR numbers.
This snipped email from a RV.net member he received from a California state troop commander which has been posted several times; He could have got 'ya on three violations.
(snipped)
Q: “Many of the owners travel over their tow vehicle GVWR and /or
GCWR. Are there any state laws against this? Or does the owner just
take the risk if they wish?”

A: The California Vehicle Code (CVC) does not contain a law that
specifically limits the amount of weight a vehicle may tow based on the
towing vehicle GVWR or GCWR. There are, however, laws that limit the
amount a vehicle may tow based on other criteria.

..1. Section 21715(b) CVC prohibits a motor vehicle under 4,000 pounds
unladen from towing any vehicle weighing 6,000 pounds or more gross
weight. This section would apply to smaller pickups and Sport Utility
Vehicles attempting to tow large trailers.

..2. Section 1085(d) of Title 13 California Code of Regulations prohibits
the loading of tires above the maximum load rating marked on the tire,
or if unmarked the maximum load rating as specified in the applicable
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard, or in a publication furnished to
the public by the tire manufacturer. This would most likely happen in
the case of a pickup truck towing a large fifth wheel travel trailer, as
those types of trailers tend to transfer a larger portion of their
weight to the last axle of the towing unit causing that axle to exceed
the tire load limits.

..3.Section 24002(a) CVC prohibits a vehicle or combination of vehicles
which is in an unsafe condition or which is not safely loaded and which
presents an immediate safety hazard from operating on the highway. This
section provides officers the authority to stop a vehicle or combination
of vehicles that is, in the officer’s opinion, unsafe to operate on
the highway. This section could be used to prohibit a driver from
continuing until the unsafe condition is fixed.
(snipped)
I trust this has adequately answered your questions. Should you desire
any further information, please contact Officer Ron Leimer, of my staff,
at (916) 445-1865.
Sincerely,
S. B. DOWLING, Captain
Commander
Commercial Vehicle Section"......

This partial email is from the '09 era so names may have retired but the codes probably haven't changed.
Its a long email but if your interested I can PM it to you in two parts.....Jim

[Bobandshawn]

JIMNLIN wrote:

As far as hauling and towing I think you can haul a much larger load than what the factory says you can. Limitation is tires, but legally you could be in a world of hurt. If you cause a death or injury to someone in an accident you could even be criminally liable even if the weight of the rig had nothing to do with the accident. Lawyers are like that ya know!

Respectfully this comes under......Internet myth.
Every LDT truck in commercial service on the road pulling heavy trailers is carrying weight above the tire placard payload rating or a GVWR number payload rating and in that industry your scenario is a non issue so why is it just RV websites where this myth is constantly spread.

I worked in criminal law, now retired. There was a couple times load and capacity came into play in cases I worked on. I do agree it's a hard thing to prosecute criminally, but these civil attorneys can make mince meat of your insurance company come law suit time. Very well may not be that way in other states, but in California you can't throw a rock without hitting a lawyer----and he'll sue you for it.

The CHP, state police, also will get ya on it. In the majority of cases they merely give you a warning. But here is where it's something very obvious like a 1970 Datsun towing a 3 axle gooseneck with 250 bales of hay on it. Back in 1983-1984 I was pulled over by a CHP in my 1974 Dodge 3/4 ton club cab. I was carrying a load of sod and I'm sure it was way more than what the GVW was on the truck. Lucky for me this was in a mountainous area and about the time he was negotiating whether I'd accept a lesser citation or take my changes running across a scale he got called out to an accident or something so I ended up with a warning.

Bottom line is, if you are overloaded (and its apparent) you could get nabbed.


BTW, I ran my pickup across the scales on our ranch when I got home, 11,200lbs. The GVW was something like 8,600 on that old Dodge.

[JIMNLIN]

As far as hauling and towing I think you can haul a much larger load than what the factory says you can. Limitation is tires, but legally you could be in a world of hurt. If you cause a death or injury to someone in an accident you could even be criminally liable even if the weight of the rig had nothing to do with the accident. Lawyers are like that ya know!

Respectfully this comes under......Internet myth.
Every LDT truck in commercial service on the road pulling heavy trailers is carrying weight above the tire placard payload rating or a GVWR number payload rating and in that industry your scenario is a non issue so why is it just RV websites where this myth pops up from time to time.

I'm a long time OOIDA member and a forum member.
Over there the advise given by their lawyers and life time OTR/LTL owners and operators is do not exceed steer/drive or the trailers axle/tire load rating numbers or a gross or gross combined operating weight. If those weights are exceeded and the vehicle(s) was responsible for a accident then the truck operator can face a civil suit/vehicle and load impounded/loss of CDL/jail time/etc.

[Bobandshawn]

Mile High wrote:
Just be conservative in your calculations. I tried to get by with a SRW 1 ton because the numbers worked, but I couldn't haul water and I was within 200 lbs of the tire maximum on the truck. I pretty much decided I had to go to the DRW.

Truck tows great, but I sure hate it. Wish now I would have just gone to a Class A and a toad and not went down this path. The truck is a PIA to use as a vehicle once you are there (I like to get back in the woods), PIA to park, and us just a waste as a daily driver if you work downtown. It sits in the garage and only gets taken out when it's going to tow, so to me it's just a 2 piece motorhome.

In retrospect - I was better off personally with the smaller trailer and my short bed SRW 1-ton daily driver.

And those DRW jobs can't go through most cars washes. We have also thought about the Class A gas units but I'm 6'6" and I haven't found one yet that is easy to get in and out of the drivers seat. I do have a nice Toad in my '06 Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited. And it's that price thing. Every so often you can find a nice used very low mile one for about $100,000 or so. I figure I would have a truck anyway as I've had a truck since 1968 or so I can say at $45K this 2500 is about $8-$10K more expensive to me. Most trailers we have looked at new run between a low of $30K up to $45K.
My preference would be a Class A as well.

[Mile_High]

Just be conservative in your calculations. I tried to get by with a SRW 1 ton because the numbers worked, but I couldn't haul water and I was within 200 lbs of the tire maximum on the truck. I pretty much decided I had to go to the DRW.

Truck tows great, but I sure hate it. Wish now I would have just gone to a Class A and a toad and not went down this path. The truck is a PIA to use as a vehicle once you are there (I like to get back in the woods), PIA to park, and us just a waste as a daily driver if you work downtown. It sits in the garage and only gets taken out when it's going to tow, so to me it's just a 2 piece motorhome.

In retrospect - I was better off personally with the smaller trailer and my short bed SRW 1-ton daily driver.

[IdaD]

Bobandshawn wrote:

IdaD wrote:

The Hemi and the Cummins can have the same RAWR numbers. The Cummins adds all the weight to the trucks front axle with little to non weight to the trucks rear axle so both will have similar payloads we use out here in the real world.
Those payloads on your trucks tire placard are a GVWR based payload which isn't used for any legal weight issues.

Also the tire sticker numbers are not on all trucks prior to the '05-'06 era...but on all trucks after I believe the '06 era.

Example only; ... the 2500 Ram 6.4 Hemi or 6.7 Cummins truck may have a 6500 RAWR and have a rear axle weight in the 3000 range which leaves around 3500 lb for a payload. RAWR includes tires/wheels/brakes and rear suspension.

Agreed, but living in California with all these lawyers if a problem ever arises with an accident while towing and it's determined the tow rig was over it's factory listed GVW, in this case 10,000 lbs, then you have a liability. The GVW on a 6.4 and a CTD are the same but the CTD weighs about a grand more due to engine weight regardless of the individual axle weights. Hence I can carry two 500 lb women more in my back seat than in a CTD.
As far as hauling and towing I think you can haul a much larger load than what the factory says you can. Limitation is tires, but legally you could be in a world of hurt. If you cause a death or injury to someone in an accident you could even be criminally liable even if the weight of the rig had nothing to do with the accident. Lawyers are like that ya know!

As long as you aren't way out of bounds, you are exceedingly unlikely to ever run into any civil or criminal liability issues simply for being over your GVWR (barring other issues such as impaired driving or the like). I'm a lawyer and I used to practice insurance defense so I've been around auto liability cases quite a bit (no more, thankfully). You certainly aren't going to face criminal or civil liability for being overweight if it didn't cause or contribute to the accident - just being over in and over itself isn't enough.

Lastly, your legal weight going down the road typically has nothing at all to do with the manufacturer's vehicle ratings, but rather is based on your vehicle registration.

[Bobandshawn]

IdaD wrote:

The Hemi and the Cummins can have the same RAWR numbers. The Cummins adds all the weight to the trucks front axle with little to non weight to the trucks rear axle so both will have similar payloads we use out here in the real world.
Those payloads on your trucks tire placard are a GVWR based payload which isn't used for any legal weight issues.

Also the tire sticker numbers are not on all trucks prior to the '05-'06 era...but on all trucks after I believe the '06 era.

Example only; ... the 2500 Ram 6.4 Hemi or 6.7 Cummins truck may have a 6500 RAWR and have a rear axle weight in the 3000 range which leaves around 3500 lb for a payload. RAWR includes tires/wheels/brakes and rear suspension.

Agreed, but living in California with all these lawyers if a problem ever arises with an accident while towing and it's determined the tow rig was over it's factory listed GVW, in this case 10,000 lbs, then you have a liability. The GVW on a 6.4 and a CTD are the same but the CTD weighs about a grand more due to engine weight regardless of the individual axle weights. Hence I can carry two 500 lb women more in my back seat than in a CTD.
As far as hauling and towing I think you can haul a much larger load than what the factory says you can. Limitation is tires, but legally you could be in a world of hurt. If you cause a death or injury to someone in an accident you could even be criminally liable even if the weight of the rig had nothing to do with the accident. Lawyers are like that ya know!

[IdaD]

JIMNLIN wrote:

op wrote:
BTW, the Hemi 6.4 will suck down fuel a lot heavier than the CTD engine, but between the 6-7K more $$$ and the cost of diesel and DEF I couldn't see getting one in a 2500. If the CTD rig came with as much or more load capacity I may of looked at them closer. Probably if you towed a huge amount of miles the CTD would be a better choice.

The Hemi and the Cummins can have the same RAWR numbers. The Cummins adds all the weight to the trucks front axle with little to non weight to the trucks rear axle so both will have similar payloads we use out here in the real world.
Those payloads on your trucks tire placard are a GVWR based payload which isn't used for any legal weight issues.

Also the tire sticker numbers are not on all trucks prior to the '05-'06 era...but on all trucks after I believe the '06 era.

Example only; ... the 2500 Ram 6.4 Hemi or 6.7 Cummins truck may have a 6500 RAWR and have a rear axle weight in the 3000 range which leaves around 3500 lb for a payload. RAWR includes tires/wheels/brakes and rear suspension.

This.

[JIMNLIN]

op wrote:
BTW, the Hemi 6.4 will suck down fuel a lot heavier than the CTD engine, but between the 6-7K more $$$ and the cost of diesel and DEF I couldn't see getting one in a 2500. If the CTD rig came with as much or more load capacity I may of looked at them closer. Probably if you towed a huge amount of miles the CTD would be a better choice.

The Hemi and the Cummins can have the same RAWR numbers. The Cummins adds all the weight to the trucks front axle with little to non weight to the trucks rear axle so both will have similar payloads we use out here in the real world.
Those payloads on your trucks tire placard are a GVWR based payload which isn't used for any legal weight issues.

Also the tire sticker numbers are not on all trucks prior to the '05-'06 era...but on all trucks after I believe the '06 era.

Example only; ... the 2500 Ram 6.4 Hemi or 6.7 Cummins truck may have a 6500 RAWR and have a rear axle weight in the 3000 range which leaves around 3500 lb for a payload. RAWR includes tires/wheels/brakes and rear suspension.