Possible frame weld broken on new Montana

[nremtp143]

Hi guys. Our new Montana was delivered in April and last week while unhitching the unit at home, I noticed the side- nose wall of the camper had broken the silicon bead at the bottom. Once I put the weight back on the truck, you could see the gap at the bottom trim move. The dealer says nothing he can do about it and I've emailed my factory rep, Montana Customer Service and Lippert. I've heard from Montana's Owner Relations only so far. I was asked a hundred questions as to how this occurred(like I know) and everything from what kind of hitch I use and what kind of truck I tow it with. I know they are just doing their job and patiently waiting to see what can/will be done. I have some trips coming up very soon that have been paid for for over a year and worried about making them. I've sent them the video I have below as well as several more pics from every angle. Just waiting to see where to go and what to do next. I have friends that work at an RV plant in Indiana and says possible weld or a wall-frame mount has come loose. Have any of you ever seen one do this?
Gap at bottom widens

[ChuckV1]

We bought a Kz 5th wheel an are pretty happy with such, Kz is a small RV manufacturer an is outside the main steam builders in Indiana but was bought by Thor as of a few years back. While at the factory we ask did Thor change anything when the bought them out, the answer was yes, some of the paperwork an a few minor things in regards to operation but nothing in the build quality of their units was changed ...

Like any other brand there is problems in some but not all units, again while visiting the factory this part August they admitted they are not perfect an do make mistakes. But they try very hard to keep them to a minimum by inspecting units as they are assembled, as I saw markings showing different problems marked in a black felt pen on a couple of units being built ...

I have to say I was impressed with how clean each unit being built was, no saw dust on unit floors, wiring was neat an cleanly routed, shop floor was pretty clean as well. Since we have a 5th wheel we were in the building that they were building 5th wheel in, they had about a dozen, starting with just a frame all the way up to the almost completed unit ...

I looked very closely at the LCI frames and the welds, they were pretty well done, no chicken scratching on any of the frames I saw. The aluminum framing was well attached an welds clear crossed each section, seen no short cut on welds at all, grabbed a frame to see if it was solid an sure enough it didn't move one bit.

Now I have to say this was the 2500 series Kz 5th wheel line I was taken thought with five others, I can not speak for the Travel Trailer line which 7 or 8 people were taken thought in another building, but asked they seem to have the option that there seem to be no short cuts that they saw. Can there be, I'm sure there are, can there be missed items in a build, I'm sure there are, but as I saw at out rally they stood 150 percent behind their product an even helped owners that were there out of warranty with parts and advice ...

So in my case I saw that Thor didn't have much of an effect on the building part, even thought it was peace work an not hourly, but again I only saw a snap shot of what is the overall picture. Also I ask a couple of the upper end managers if they were scared of a down turn in trailer sales, they said they were an thus kept product down somewhat so they could keep their work force busy... They like MorRyde an LCI were screaming for workers, the stated that they unemployment rate in the area was under 2 percent ...

Safe travels

[hvac]

They are beautiful, but still using inferior components. At a minimum for that money an all metal floor.

[Bigg_Al]

laknox wrote:

minnow wrote:
I guess airstream was a bad example but it does seem that in general, those manufactures that are outside the Indiana black hole do seem to build a better unit.

Latest Trailer Life magazine has an article about 1/2 ton towable TTs. Top of the list was a 7700 GVW Airstream. BASE MSRP, meaning no options, is $88,000+. Now, that is just stuipd and you're paying $45-50,000 just for a trailer that says "Airstream", and nothing else. Quality might be a =bit= better than average, but not =that= much better.

Lyle

I agree with you, Lyle.

[laknox]

minnow wrote:
I guess airstream was a bad example but it does seem that in general, those manufactures that are outside the Indiana black hole do seem to build a better unit.

Latest Trailer Life magazine has an article about 1/2 ton towable TTs. Top of the list was a 7700 GVW Airstream. BASE MSRP, meaning no options, is $88,000+. Now, that is just stuipd and you're paying $45-50,000 just for a trailer that says "Airstream", and nothing else. Quality might be a =bit= better than average, but not =that= much better.

Lyle

[minnow]

I guess airstream was a bad example but it does seem that in general, those manufactures that are outside the Indiana black hole do seem to build a better unit.

[hvac]

Airstream has huge issues with soft OSB f!oors trapped in wet insulation. Corrosion and clearcoat pee!ing.

Thor is the issue!

[Ralph_Cramden]

Airstream is Thor but I get your drift. I believe it has more to do with the scale of production. Artic Fox builds and sells how many units per year? Same with Airstream who Thor keeps seperate from other divisions. Most other Thor brands, and more so Forest River who are pushing junk out of Indiana, operate solely on the ride the roller coaster while its still running business model, which is push them out the door as fast as possible until it jumps the track.

[minnow]

laknox wrote:
The people who most criticize Greg's article are those IN the industry, and whose oxen are being gored. The louder they're squalling simply means that Greg's statements are hitting close to home.

If the RV industry were =serious= about quality, they're release warranty claim numbers in both # of units needing warranty service and $$ spent on warranty claims. I've never seen even ONE mfr release these numbers. Even if you do a forensic accounting analysis of their financials, you'd be hard-put to dig those numbers out, if at all. IMO, this is one of RV mfrs most closely guarded secrets, on the order of the original Coke recipe.

The fact that not one RV mfr requires their dealers to service any of the brands they sell on a first-come basis, the fact that mfrs have no dealer-to-dealer network that allows dealers to cross-sell inventory, the fact that dealers consistently dump warranty work off onto component manufacturers and the fact that RV mfrs refuse to get off the pay-by-piece salary structure which leads to shoddy build quality, are just 4 of the most common and egregious flaws in the RV industry as a whole.

Lyle

100% on target Lyle!

Anyone else notice that those RV manufacturers not building their rigs in RV centric Indiana and under the watchful eye of the RV Mafia (Forest River, Thor and others) generally build a higher quality unit. Artic Fox and Airstream are two that comes to mind.

[BarneyS]

I was just cleaning up posts with unnecessary quotes. Some members are just too lazy it seems to do it themselves. :R There is no reason to read the same thing over and over on the same page and have to scroll down through quote after quote after quote.
Barney

[Ralph_Cramden]

laknox wrote:

The people who most criticize Greg's article are those IN the industry, and whose oxen are being gored. The louder they're squalling simply means that Greg's statements are hitting close to home.

If the RV industry were =serious= about quality, they're release warranty claim numbers in both # of units needing warranty service and $$ spent on warranty claims. I've never seen even ONE mfr release these numbers. Even if you do a forensic accounting analysis of their financials, you'd be hard-put to dig those numbers out, if at all. IMO, this is one of RV mfrs most closely guarded secrets, on the order of the original Coke recipe.

The fact that not one RV mfr requires their dealers to service any of the brands they sell on a first-come basis, the fact that mfrs have no dealer-to-dealer network that allows dealers to cross-sell inventory, the fact that dealers consistently dump warranty work off onto component manufacturers and the fact that RV mfrs refuse to get off the pay-by-piece salary structure which leads to shoddy build quality, are just 4 of the most common and egregious flaws in the RV industry as a whole.

Lyle

Yes sir, he is not well liked among the Elkhart / Goshen in crowd, because the truth must really get their panties all knotted up. When he mentioned the number of recalls sent out by Forest River awhile ago, they had their legal department instantly start harassing him and the publication. If they spent as much time worrying about their build quality and quality control as they do trying to maintain their farce of an image, they may not have had that amount of recalls to begin with.

Thats always been the nice feature of RV daily report, they were not afraid to throw it out there no matter what it is. Unlike that other site RVBusiness.com, which paints this rosey picture on everything and caters to the Manufacturers and suppliers, along with the RVIA and RVDA, to the point you want to heave your breakfast.

[Wild_Card]

Amen

[laknox]

The people who most criticize Greg's article are those IN the industry, and whose oxen are being gored. The louder they're squalling simply means that Greg's statements are hitting close to home.

If the RV industry were =serious= about quality, they're release warranty claim numbers in both # of units needing warranty service and $$ spent on warranty claims. I've never seen even ONE mfr release these numbers. Even if you do a forensic accounting analysis of their financials, you'd be hard-put to dig those numbers out, if at all. IMO, this is one of RV mfrs most closely guarded secrets, on the order of the original Coke recipe.

The fact that not one RV mfr requires their dealers to service any of the brands they sell on a first-come basis, the fact that mfrs have no dealer-to-dealer network that allows dealers to cross-sell inventory, the fact that dealers consistently dump warranty work off onto component manufacturers and the fact that RV mfrs refuse to get off the pay-by-piece salary structure which leads to shoddy build quality, are just 4 of the most common and egregious flaws in the RV industry as a whole.

Lyle

[Ralph_Cramden]

They sure do love to throw those numbers out there. The Industry in general and RVIA, throw them out like they are setting all these sales records, when in fact they're not. The only records they are breaking is yearly numbers. Look at it over time.

In the 8 years From 2007 through 2016, Recession/post recession, The RV Industry shipped @ 2,428,800 units.

In the 8 years prior, 2001 through 2008, they shipped @ 2,624,000 units. The economy took a fairly good hit during the beginning of this time period also.

It does not look like any records are being set to me other than yearly numbers, and backs up Greg Gerber's claims in his RV death spiral article that despite reported records being broken there are still only 9,000,000 registered RV's in the US, and that number has remained constant for years.

The RV Industry is about as cyclic as they come. Just wait for the next uptick in oil prices and watch what happens.

[NJRVer]

Irelands child wrote:
That article by Greg Gerber of the RV Daily Report has been shot down in billowing smoke and flames on several different forums and by folks that are well tuned in to the RV industry. Read it if you must but keep an open (very) mind

RVIA has a monthly summary of new units shipped by type and percntage. Through June 2017, the RV industry has shipped 256,430 NEW units, a 13.3% increase over 2016, and 18.3% over June 2016. http://www.rvia.org/?ESID=currentmonth

What he is 100% correct in saying is that there are major quality problems as the OP of this thread and a few other respondents have experienced over all brands

Those sales numbers are somewhat misleading.
Don't they calculate a "sale" when the unit is "sold" to a dealer?
The unit isn't really sold until a buyer actually takes possesion