Real towing experiencing with SRW

[norm]

Okay "Fivers", I've been around this forum a few years now and have on occasion shared my opinion based on my experiences. Hopefully someone has found at least one of my experienced based opinions to be helpful. Over the years I have owned a number of TT's, motorhome, and cab overs. Basically, I apparently have adult ADD so my mode of RV'ing interest changes with the wind . I have full timed for a year (2002), traveling the US, pulling a 30' TT with a half ton SRW. Many "experts" on this forum said it couldn't be done safely and would destroy the truck. Yeah, sure pal! Well, it must have been dumb luck. Because not only did I put 20,000 incident free miles on that rig, in one year (like I said...ADD, gotta keep moving!..LOL)but I sold it for top $. So, my point is....while theory and prognostication can be insightful and entertaining, they don't replace "real world" experience. With that said, I am currently considering selling my cab over and trying out a 5th. My tow vehicle is an 04 Cummins 2500 quad (mildly chipped) SB, SRW, with 19.5 tires/wheels and airbags. I would appreciate hearing from "fivers" towing with a similar rig. Specifically, what "fiver" are you towing and what is/are your opinion/s, good and bad?

[larry_barnhart]

We had a new 2500 dodge and a new 32 ft fifthwheel. It was a good match for both but I already new if we traded for the 35 ft alpenlite it was not going to be good. I was thinking the 32 ft was the limit for 2 rear wheels. Things have changed but so did we.
chevman

[Cummins12V98]

gpshemi wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I will ask again what is your rear TV axle weight?

I can answer that, but honestly why would I? So you can continue to banter?

You've already decided that I'm overloaded, unsafe, hard headed, an uneducated gun toting redneck terrorist that's a complete danger to society...or something to that degree. I see this setup all the time in Michigan. So just as a forwarning to you, stay in another state or fear for your life I guess.

Additionally, I've already stated your mileage will vary from mine. It is what it is. He asked. I told. So what's the point? I'm not bantering with the weight police. Call me or it what you wish. I hate to break everyones heart, but I just don't really care much What you personally think. It works fine in every case I've used it in.

Do you want me to conceed that a DRW might perform better as a tow rig with additional safety margin? Is that what you're looking for? Done. I totally agree. I'd also add, so would a class 8 with twin rear DRW's over a 3500 DRW We just draw our lines different is all.

I was honestly curious what your rear axle weighs. I am not going to change what you do for sure. With the load you are stating at 20% pin weight you have to be over your tires capacity. But if you want to evade the question it is up to you.

I am not the weight police, I just know when something is way out of spec. I know the Cummins/Ram can do way more than what the factory says but there is a safe limit and I think you already know that.

I am more to the right than most people that you will ever meet. But when people are doing things that may effect OTHERS I will voice my opinion and hopefully help someone see the light.

I have personal experience with being overloaded. The trailer I was towing was too big for the truck and I was going thru Portland's S curves of death and the trailer startyed to sway and it went out of control and passed me on it's side and spun the truck around and rolled it over. Luckily I was not severely injured.

As they say "it tows just fine" until it rolled over! Bought a GMC one ton Dually and all was good after that.

[gpshemi]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
I will ask again what is your rear TV axle weight?

I can answer that, but honestly why would I? So you can continue to banter?

You've already decided that I'm overloaded, unsafe, hard headed, an uneducated gun toting redneck terrorist that's a complete danger to society...or something to that degree. I see this setup all the time in Michigan. So just as a forwarning to you, stay in another state or fear for your life I guess.

Additionally, I've already stated your mileage will vary from mine. It is what it is. He asked. I told. So what's the point? I'm not bantering with the weight police. Call me or it what you wish. I hate to break everyones heart, but I just don't really care much What you personally think. It works fine in every case I've used it in.

Do you want me to conceed that a DRW might perform better as a tow rig with additional safety margin? Is that what you're looking for? Done. I totally agree. I'd also add, so would a class 8 with twin rear DRW's over a 3500 DRW. We just draw our lines different is all.

[motorcycle_jack]

I ahve been in many discussions about SRW vs. DRW and it always comes down to this - what is your rear axle weight rating and how much are you carrying? Or how much will your rear ties carry? I can almost guarantee you if you will weigh your truck and trailer at a CAT scale answer these questions, you will have your answer. Overloaded - and the time to ask is it OK is not when going down the highway with the rig on back and you run over a piece of steel tread that a big rig has blown. You will in that instant think why did I not go with another rear tire back there when that one goes.

[Gemstone]

"To label those that disagree with your opinion as "hard heads"....

my connotation of hard head was certainly not someone who disagrees with me, it is someone who after a purchase of some good or service, coming to the conclusion they have made a mistake, but will never admit to the mistake regardless of how much evidence there is to the contrary...for fear that it will somehow diminish their worthiness/credibility. We've all seen 'em in life, those who know everything, refuse to believe there is another way of doing something, other than their own. Some of us have probably worn that label at sometime during our life....I know I have.

But back to the issue of SRW and real life experiences towing a heavy rig, and having once owned a DRW farm truck, I never once thought I needed or wished for a DRW when towing my 5th wheel. There are trade off's for sure, my SRW, while retired from pulling our home, still serves as a commute vehicle, still serves us off road and in places that a DRW would be out of place...like the desert, a forest road or in a downtown parking garage. Life is all about choices, we just gotta make 'em for the right reasons.

Regards
Gemstone

[Cummins12V98]

gpshemi wrote:
I never said it was for everyone. Comfort level is a subjective thing. I said it works for me just fine and YMMV. I stick to that.

The ratings are just number on a door made between engineers and bean counters analyzed for warranty claims. It has less to do with "safety" than you realize. I'm an engineer there...I've seen this stuff first hand. That how you explain the increase in payloads and GCWR's year to year with basically the same truck.

I will ask again what is your rear TV axle weight?

[Cummins12V98]

jerem0621 wrote:
Folks,

I think we are getting lost a bit here by DRW vs SRW... What it really comes down to is this..

Is the truck appropriate for the job at hand?

If the answer is YES then it doesn't matter if its SWR or DWR.

SWR encompasses a LOT of vehicles... From S10's to SRW 3500 series trucks.

If you are pulling with an older truck similar to mine you had to get a dually to get the payload rating up to the 3000-4500 lb rating... now we are seeing 2500's in the 3000 lb payload range and 3500 in the 3000 plus range.

The questions that has to be asked is can the truck safely and comfortably handle the load YOU intend to put on it? If the answer is yes then get what you want. If not, then you need to move up a class of trucks to get the rating you NEED...

Me personally, I love the dually for towing. I have towed with SRW and feel that it gives me superior handling of the load. I don't think that anyone can dispute that adding two more tires to the back increases the load carrying ability of the truck.

Lets take emotion out of this and look at it for what it is.

SWR, DWR, Diesel, Gas, Crew Cab, etc etc etc are all tools designed to meet needs. If it meets your need than great!. If not... well get the appropriate tool for the job.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

YUP!

[gpshemi]

I never said it was for everyone. Comfort level is a subjective thing. I said it works for me just fine and YMMV. I stick to that.

The ratings are just number on a door made between engineers and bean counters analyzed for warranty claims. It has less to do with "safety" than you realize. I'm an engineer there...I've seen this stuff first hand. That how you explain the increase in payloads and GCWR's year to year with basically the same truck.

[jerem0621]

Folks,

I think we are getting lost a bit here by DRW vs SRW... What it really comes down to is this..

Is the truck appropriate for the job at hand?

If the answer is YES then it doesn't matter if its SWR or DWR.

SWR encompasses a LOT of vehicles... From S10's to SRW 3500 series trucks.

If you are pulling with an older truck similar to mine you had to get a dually to get the payload rating up to the 3000-4500 lb rating... now we are seeing 2500's in the 3000 lb payload range and 3500 in the 3000 plus range.

The questions that has to be asked is can the truck safely and comfortably handle the load YOU intend to put on it? If the answer is yes then get what you want. If not, then you need to move up a class of trucks to get the rating you NEED...

Me personally, I love the dually for towing. I have towed with SRW and feel that it gives me superior handling of the load. I don't think that anyone can dispute that adding two more tires to the back increases the load carrying ability of the truck.

Lets take emotion out of this and look at it for what it is.

SWR, DWR, Diesel, Gas, Crew Cab, etc etc etc are all tools designed to meet needs. If it meets your need than great!. If not... well get the appropriate tool for the job.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[norm]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

norm wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Gemstone wrote:
"Thanks for your honest story!

I think too many people know they really should be towing with a Dually but make every excuse in the book to justify what they have"....

I hope that is not a slam against the rest of us who did not reply with a similar story....which are no doubt just as honest as the one referenced. Is it because the story fit your own preference for a DRW truck ? Did it help justify your personal decision ? I'm just curious as to why you seemed to weight this story more than the others ?

Understandably, there are people who should not be towing a particular rig with a particular truck, like new RV'ers who don't know any different, or as you allude to, hard headed RV'ers who won't accept the fact that they made a mistake. Not that I am looking for one, but I believe everyone who replied honestly about their real world experiences should be thanked for their input to the OP's question....
Threads like this will help new RV'ers make the right decision, and we know it won't do a thing for the hard headed population.

Regards
Gemstone

I appreciate people that realize what they have is not adequate for the job at hand and do something about it!

I could have beefed up my 98 2500 4X4 12V Ram with air bags and 19.5 tires and wheels and been like so many other people that put bandaids on their rigs and pretended it was fine. My Mobile Suites is very heavy so I stepped up and bought a 1 ton Dually to safely handle my new RV.

No slam as you put it but you are right the hard heads won't get it!

I must respectfully challenge your conclusions. To label those that disagree with your opinion as "hard heads" denotes a posture of superiority. Perhaps that is not your intention? Perhaps you can provide factual evidence to support your position? I must also respectfully point out that there is a significant performance difference between your 98 Ram and todays Rams. For that matter, there is a significant difference between a 98 Ram and my HO 04 Cummins. The intent of my post was not to provide a platform for arguing the personal opinions of the merits of DRW versus SRW. Just as I do not engage in posts that promote brand wars. I happen to like DRW's as much as SRW's. If you prefer one over the other because of personal like or dislike, fine, let your personal preference be known. But please do not marginalize another persons choice of equipment based upon unsupported claims of inferiority. Hopefully we are all beyond the "my toy is better than your's" phase of our childhoods by a comfortable and ego secure margin....:B

I am not the one that came up with the hard heads comment I just agreed with him.

The 98 is a different animal but it has the power to pull my MS and with 19.5 tires, air bags rear disk kit built trans and so on but it still would not be safe in my opinion.

The 98 has 300rwhp and 750tq on the Dyno.

The type of person that thinks everything is fine like the guy with the mega cab with 28K combined load are irresponsible in my opinion and should have a Dually.

No brand war here just know there are many people that know they should step but make every excuse in the world not to, like it wont fit in the garage or drive thru, hard to park the list goes on.

It is all about being responsible.

My experience with towing 3 different 5ers with single rear wheeled trucks and now a Dually with a much larger 5er there is no comparison even with 8K less weight with a single rear wheeled truck.

I agree completely with you, "responsibility" is of critical importance. In fact, it is so important that the legal system has even given it a definition with respect to punitive damages. It is called "deliberate indifference". Did you, or should you have known, that the results of your deliberate action would or could result in death, injury or property damage?(this is my very loose laymans paraphrase). And with that knowledge, did you elect to intentionally proceed with the action with indifference to the outcome? How, you may ask, is your action determined to be "irresponsible"? By the testimony of industry "experts" and/or verifiable evidence.

So, since there are a lot of smart folks on this forum who know a lot more about engineering, vehicle dynamics and the law of relativity, than I do....How about weighing in on this question? Based on the science of the question, given two identically equipped trucks, driven by the same individual and all other factors identical, save for the fact that one is an SRW and the other is a DRW, why is the DRW "scientifically" superior AND.....why would the SRW choice not only be inferior, but "irresponsible" as well? Bottom line....opinions are like....(well, you know what I mean) so either BACK with FACT, or join the "Mutual Admiration Society"..:B

[Cummins12V98]

thomasmnile wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

gpshemi wrote:
06 3500 SRW Megacab w/ 285's / 3.73, towing Cyclone 3612 Toyhualer
Hitch: 3200lbs
Dry: 13,800lbs
CAT Scaled: ~28,000lbs with gear.

Runs good. Tows good. Been through two (unfortunately) emergency maneuver with it. Personally, still wouldn't want a DRW. Just my $0.02.

YMMV for sure and that's what really matters.

What does your TV rear axle weigh?

I just hope for your and others sake you don't blow a TV tire.

Dunno what his rear axle rating is, but I have the same truck ('05 3500 SRW, no big change in '06 that I know of) with 265 70R 17 tires (Load Range E, 3195lbs) on it and the rear axle weight rating is like 6300 lbs. When I had my fifth wheel, I (2450 loaded pin wt) very close to, but within the axle weight rating, and total combined gross weight was 20345 lbs.

The reason I ask is that I know what the tires are rated for and with 28k combined load I suspect he is over the rear tires carrying capacity. He mentioned weights at Cat scales but did not include rear axle weight.

[kbaum]

I must respectfully challenge your conclusions. To label those that disagree with your opinion as "hard heads" denotes a posture of superiority. Perhaps that is not your intention? Perhaps you can provide factual evidence to support your position? I must also respectfully point out that there is a significant performance difference between your 98 Ram and todays Rams. For that matter, there is a significant difference between a 98 Ram and my HO 04 Cummins. The intent of my post was not to provide a platform for arguing the personal opinions of the merits of DRW versus SRW. Just as I do not engage in posts that promote brand wars. I happen to like DRW's as much as SRW's. If you prefer one over the other because of personal like or dislike, fine, let your personal preference be known. But please do not marginalize another persons choice of equipment based upon unsupported claims of inferiority. Hopefully we are all beyond the "my toy is better than your's" phase of our childhoods by a comfortable and ego secure margin.... ""


I could not agree more!! To assume that purchasing a DRW truck is a "step-up from a SRW"?? Additionally, the believe that one is irresponsible for driving a SRW truck when they believe it is not the tool they would used to tow or carry a certain weight. Perhaps driving a DRW in a snow storm is irresponsible. Pulling through a drive-up or driving down a narrow dirt road in the mountains, taking up two or three parking spaces at the supermarket responsible?

I agree some people are irresponsible and do not think through their decisions and are terrible drivers some drive SRW's and some DRW's.

Regarding the OP's original question. I have been pulling 5th wheels for the last 20 years using SRW one ton long-bed trucks. My previous 5th wheel was a NUWA Discover America 33 feet long GRWC of 14,500 probably around 13K most of the time I pulled it for ten years. Currently own a 2013 Jayco Pinnacle 36REQS close to 40 feet long max GWRC of 15,900 probably at 14K pulls great with a grade or with wind(live in Wyoming). Currently, putting 19.5 Rickson wheels and Toyo 245 tires on it, my son needs my old tires and wheels.

[Buckeye_Chuck]

Check this out. Super Singles on a F350

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c23/Abrannan19/Trey%20SS/DSC00370.jpg

[thomasmnile]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

gpshemi wrote:
06 3500 SRW Megacab w/ 285's / 3.73, towing Cyclone 3612 Toyhualer
Hitch: 3200lbs
Dry: 13,800lbs
CAT Scaled: ~28,000lbs with gear.

Runs good. Tows good. Been through two (unfortunately) emergency maneuver with it. Personally, still wouldn't want a DRW. Just my $0.02.

YMMV for sure and that's what really matters.

What does your TV rear axle weigh?

I just hope for your and others sake you don't blow a TV tire.

Dunno what his rear axle rating is, but I have the same truck ('05 3500 SRW, no big change in '06 that I know of) with 265 70R 17 tires (Load Range E, 3195lbs) on it and the rear axle weight rating is like 6300 lbs. When I had my fifth wheel, I (2450 loaded pin wt) very close to, but within the axle weight rating, and total combined gross weight was 20345 lbs.

[gpshemi]

norm wrote:


You have sparked my curiosity?....A couple of questions for you? Do you know what your 5er wet weight is? Do you have an auto? E brake?...You can PM me if you would prefer. I REALLY appreciate your post!

Auto. No jake brake (yet). Been through the Smokies. Truck is ~8,600lbs with hitch.
By wet I assume you mean loaded with stuff. I don't carry water. The limo golf cart I think is like 1200lbs. Then your gear ect. You can figure he mah I'm sure.