Sorry...another tow vehicle capacity thread

[Phydeauxman]

Lets just get this out of the way up front. I am a newbie to camping that made an uninformed purchase of too much 5th wheel for the truck I have. I already own the camper and the truck so no going back on those decisions...now just trying to understand what the real potential consequences are.

My truck...2014 Ford F250 CC 4x4 SWB with the 6.7 Diesel...paid for. I have an automatic sliding hitch, have added Air Lift air bags to the truck as well as a BakFlip bed cover. I recently weighed the truck with just myself and about 6 gallons of diesel...the weight was 8320 lbs., the truck has a GVWR of 10000 lbs. leaving me with a payload capacity of 1680 lbs. I would say that my wife and kids add another 430 lbs., we carry about another 50 pounds of stuff in the cab with us, and then filling the 24 gallon tank would add another 130 lbs. Subtracting all of that...we are left with a payload capacity of about 1070 lbs.

My camper...2015 Grand Design Reflection 323BHS. The GVWR is 13995 lbs., the dry weight is 10780 lbs., and the hitch weight is 1980 lbs.

Based on my calculations for my truck...it appears we are over the GVWR of the truck by 910 lbs. When looking at other 5th wheels offered by Grand Design...my truck could not tow any of them and be within the GVWR of the truck. I am not sure if any manufacturer makes a 5th wheel with a hitch weight that will fit into the 1070 lb. capacity I have left.

When I bought the truck, I had no idea I would be going the camper route. I bought it to tow my aluminum car trailer and classic Mustang. A year later...the wife wants to start going camping...and the 5th wheel was my idea of roughing it. Being an impulse buyer that I am (I know how bad this is so no need to rub it in), we went and looked at a few models and bought the one that met our needs/desires. Of course, the dealer said towing it with the truck I had was going to be no problem. And it has not been any problem at all. We have not gone real far mind you but it tows like a dream and with the air bags pumped up to 65 lbs...truck sits perfectly level.

I know I am not alone out there as far as towing more 5ver than the truck is rated for...I think the most popular combo I see on the road is SRW truck with 5ver behind. And even if some of those are 350s/3500s...the GVWR capacity of those trucks isn't different from the 250s/2500s.

Since I can't un-buy the truck or the camper (especially the camper)...I am trying to find out what the real potential consequences are from continuing to tow with the truck I have. I know it is not the limitations of the engine/transmission because they put the same engine/transmission in the 350s and 450s. Is it the brakes not being able to appropriately stop the vehicle? To make matters worse...I had plan to replace the stock/original fuel tank with a tank that basically doubles the capacity...so I don't have to stop every 250 miles for fuel. Doing this would add another 180 lbs. on top of the weight I detailed above.

[kzspree320]

Put your zip code in LINK HERE to see where one is in your area. Only cost about $10 and easy to do. You can read on how to pull onto scales.

[Dave_H_M]

I would go with it but you have to feel comfortable while at it.

[ramgunner]

Phydeauxman wrote:
I am trying to find out what the real potential consequences are from continuing to tow with the truck I have.

Wear and tear on components that were not designed to take it.

If you get into an accident, especially an injury accident, then LE and your insurance company, the other parties insurance company, and their attorneys may and will look at everything. If you are over your rated weights, then it could lead to civil and/or criminal charges involving the term "negligence". That means that someone knew better and did something anyway that endangered, injured, or killed someone or caused damage. Civilly it can mean a loss of a lot of money. Criminally it can mean a loss of a lot of money and/or freedom.

[Phydeauxman]

Thanks for all of the great replies. The truck came with the 20" wheels on it. The tires are Michelin LT275/65R20 with a max load (single) of 3750 lbs. The door jamb sticker says the GAWR for the rear is 6100lbs. with those tires.

As far as weighing the truck/trailer together...where can I do that at? I got the truck weight when I took a load of brush to the dump.

[kzspree320]

Your fiver is pretty close to the weights of my fiver that I tow with a 2008 Ram 2500 CTD quad cab. In round numbers, my fiver has a dry weight of 10,600#, a GCWR of 14,000#, and a CAT scaled ready to camp weight of slightly less than 12,000#. I pack pretty light.

My CAT scaled rear axle weight ready to camp is about 5,600#, which is about 500# less than my RAWR. My advice to you is load the truck and trailer ready to camp and go weigh it at the CAT scales. Are you under your RAWR? I will say my payload sticker in drivers door jamb says my payload is 2,523#. I am over my GVWR almost 800#, but I am 500# or more under both my RAWR and my FAWR.

Truck tows my fiver well and I certainly don't feel unsafe, even though some might feel otherwise being over GVWR. Good luck.

[goducks10]

Use the RAWR and you'll be fine. Make sure your tires are good for the load. I upgraded my tires on my 2500 from 245/70/17 rated 3000lbs each at 80psi to
275/65/18 rated at 3415lbs at 80 psi. It doesn't change the door sticker, but it sure provides a bigger cushion if I ever run with a heavier pin. You truck is a de-rated F350 for the most part. In fact you can even get an F350 with the 10,000 GVWR. I'm sure there's a part or two that aren't the same between the 250-350 but it's the same drive line. It's not about the payload because that's the de-rated part. The tow rating goes up with gear changes. That right there says the truck is capable of heavier loads.

JMHO but it is what it is. Go camping and have fun.

[Wildwilly101]

I tried the same thing with my 08 Ram 2500 long bed. Installed firestone ride rites, Helwig stabilizer, upgraded tires to 3,750lb rated, and hitched up the new 5er (upgraded from a 28ft bumper pull) 2,700lb pin weight, yes I was over the weight limits. Towed it from PA to FL and back. When I got home I immediately traded in the truck for a Ram 3500 Dually. The truck simply wasn’t adequate to handle the weight. Yes, it sat level and looked fine, but the suspension was too soft to handle the load without see-sawing. I drove 65 the whole way, hit a well hidden dip in the road that threw us into the left lane, began see-sawing and rocking side to side. Thank God there was no one in the left lane. I’ve been towing bumper pulls for close to 30 years, I should have known better.

[jmtandem]

Since I can't un-buy the truck or the camper (especially the camper)...I am trying to find out what the real potential consequences are from continuing to tow with the truck I have. I know it is not the limitations of the engine/transmission because they put the same engine/transmission in the 350s and 450s. Is it the brakes not being able to appropriately stop the vehicle? To make matters worse...I had plan to replace the stock/original fuel tank with a tank that basically doubles the capacity...so I don't have to stop every 250 miles for fuel. Doing this would add another 180 lbs. on top of the weight I detailed above.

Load the fifth wheel up for camping, water, propane, batteries, etc. Then go to the scales. That will give you a realistic number including pin weight and hitch weight. Then take it from there. Being a little over gross for the truck is an issue; but being over the tire, wheel or axle ratings is a big deal. Sometimes there are things that you can do to carry the weight better like larger diameter tires and rims, more springs in the pack, etc. It won't make your gross weight number any better but it can carry the load better. Or, you can always look for a good used one ton, perhaps dually, and sleep perfectly well each night knowing you are under every possible rating and gross weight. When the wife wants a bigger fifth wheel the truck will be ready for it, too.

[Golden_HVAC]

My plan for a retirement fifth wheel was to buy a F-450 cab and chassis truck and it comes with a aft of axle 40 gallon tank, and optional mid tank that is only 19 gallons. My plan was to replace that tank with a 53 gallon aftermarket tank, and have something like 90 gallons so that I could get 9 MPG and still tow 800 miles before needing to park the trailer, and get fuel while leaving the trailer parked in a campground!

The F-450 cab and chassis has a 16,000 GVWR, while your truck will not. I would not recommend the larger tank while you are already over the GVWR. You will have to look for fuel every 200 miles or so.

Fred.

[donn0128]

Lots of questions all centered around weights? Biggest problems I see being overloaded are, miserable towing experience. BTDT and it is not fun! Potiential warrenty issues if manufacturer ever suspects or finds out your towing overloaded. Eventual broken parts. Potiential legal issues if you ever get in an accident while towing. And depending where you tow, being pulled over and scaled. BC Canada for example does have laws on the books concerning towing overloaded.

[lawrosa]

If you want real payload #'s weigh the truck and post axle weights front and rear. Then compare that with the axle weights on the door tag.

Post those #'s here.

Also post your tires max psi and weight they can carry noted on the sidewall.

Air bags are not the best option IMO. You should really add different overload stops as they do with truck campers... These will get you a better ride.

As far as being overweight?? Bad things can happen possibly. Things wear out faster, bearings, mounting points may break, leafs... etc...


You may be better then you think once you get actual axle weights....

[Golden_HVAC]

Hi,

The engine, transmission, brakes and probably the rims are the same as a 2014 F-350. The SRW F-350 came with a 11,400 GVWR, and 18" rims rated for slightly more weight than the factory standard 17" rims on a F-250.

That said, you might have the upgraded 18" rims already, or might have some 20" or other silly size rims. Changing to the 18" rims will not increase your GVWR any, but if your rear axle or tires are overloaded when towing, it might help prevent tire failure.

You really need to go back to the scale with full tank of fuel and the fifth wheel. Check the front and rear axle weights. You might be surprised that the fifth wheel is a lot more weight that you expected. Many times the 'estimated pin' weight is just that, a lie. So you might be anywhere from 700 - 1,500 pounds over the GVWR.

That said, I know someone who did the same thing back in 1983 and bought a LTD wagon thinking of towing a camping trailer, only to get home with the car and find out it's tow rating was only 1,000 pounds. Then he bought a F-150 still thinking of towing a travel trailer, and did not like any of those layouts, bought a 24' Wilderness fifth wheel, and towed that home. I have no clue how much weight was on his truck, or it's rating with the 175 HP 351" engine. Eventually he traded up for a dually F-350 with 460" engine rated around 225 HP.

So it is not nearly as unsafe as you might expect it to be when you state 'I am overloaded by 1,000 pounds'.

You should be well under your rear axle weight rating, and probably are under the tire weight ratings too.

Good luck,

Fred.