Too Heavy for E's Tires..either LRF/LRG or 17.5 tires

[wantabe351]

...On a Cat Scale my Montana axle weight is 12,655lbs with 7k axles(axle tag) but a tire limit of 6750lbs...My tires are the Goodyear Marathons 235/85-16e's....now after the third tire going bad.. last week was my third tire..tread is deformed from belt elongation...2011 Montana3400L with W/D and a Gen is heavy but not over weight(limit of 15,650lbs)..so when i get home Im going for all new tires I want a LRG tire but its hard to find a good tire,but going to a 17.5 rim/tire there a about 7 good brands to choose from..Now Herecules has a LRF and Kenda has a LRG and both are 235/85-16. the rims on the 5er are rated for 110psi so the rims i have will work.....any thoughts

[topjimmy]

Yep you are right Chris 2010 was the year Montana rims came ready for 110P.s.i ,I have the Big brother to his 3400rl I have the 3402RL and it came with Marathons ,I never had a problem in 2 years but I am on a big trip right now I did not take a chance before I left so I went To Les Schwab tire and got G rated Geostar LT G574's they gave me 70 bucks a piece for the Marathons so out the door 900 bucks and full Warranty from Les Schwab 2000+ miles and through 100 degree weather and all is good and I have piece of mind

[FastEagle]

Me Again wrote:

wantabe351 wrote:
I ordered Hercules "Power STR" ST235/85R16 (LRF) 3960lbs@95psi with a L speed rating (75mph)..4 tires with be delivered next week..I liked Hercules tires years ago so hope they do me well again...each tire will have a load increase of 500lb more/ axle safty margin of 1,000lb..speed safty margin of 10 mph more..(75mph). bought the set for 520$ delivered..After this im going for the 17.5 wheel/tire combo..Suspension still the same only the tires have been upgraded,so far

Depending on the year of your Montana the rims may not be rated beyond 80 lbs inflation. It was not until sometime in 2010 that they upgraded the rims installed OEM to ones capable of tires beyond LRE.

Chris

FastEagle

[Me_Again]

wantabe351 wrote:
I ordered Hercules "Power STR" ST235/85R16 (LRF) 3960lbs@95psi with a L speed rating (75mph)..4 tires with be delivered next week..I liked Hercules tires years ago so hope they do me well again...each tire will have a load increase of 500lb more/ axle safty margin of 1,000lb..speed safty margin of 10 mph more..(75mph). bought the set for 520$ delivered..After this im going for the 17.5 wheel/tire combo..Suspension still the same only the tires have been upgraded,so far

Depending on the year of your Montana the rims may not be rated beyond 80 lbs inflation. It was not until sometime in 2010 that they upgraded the rims installed OEM to ones capable of tires beyond LRE.

Chris

[JIMNLIN]

65 mph is a industry standard for a ST tire. Before Traveling at 75 mph speeds I would get a confirmation from a credible source such as Hercules.

[wantabe351]

I ordered Hercules "Power STR" ST235/85R16 (LRF) 3960lbs@95psi with a L speed rating (75mph)..4 tires with be delivered next week..I liked Hercules tires years ago so hope they do me well again...each tire will have a load increase of 500lb more/ axle safty margin of 1,000lb..speed safty margin of 10 mph more..(75mph). bought the set for 520$ delivered..After this im going for the 17.5 wheel/tire combo..Suspension still the same only the tires have been upgraded,so far

[wantabe351]

They choose the GAW to be 6750lb by the capacity of the tire...a 7k axle would need a 3500lb tire plus for safty...Dexter only manufactues 6k or 7k axles.. But either way when I travel state to state,on the highway I like to drive at 68mph(truck performs best at that speed 1900rpms) and then put road temps at90 to 120*..Good Year Marathons just BREAK apart...Montana 3400l should have come with F or G tires..So this week I took a chance....

[NC_Hauler]

Tireman9 wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:

Tireman9 wrote:
As we all know it is the air that carries the load. Basically the more air volume (larger tire) and higher inflation pressure the higher the load capacity.

Now as we also know it is Heat that kills tires the faster rubber is "bent" through deflection the hotter it gets. A tire of size S and Load L at inflation pressure P will run hotter if it is run at speed 75 mph i.e. more bends per minute than when run slower say at 65 mph.

Now it is possible to vary L and/or P to achieve the same temperature when a tire is run at 75 as when at 65.

I do not understand the apparent confusion about these basic engineering principles.

If a tire company wants to provide a special 'non-standard" tire for a small special part of the tire market by using a "non-standard" set of Load, Pressure and Speed then I see no reason to be confused. I would think RV owners should be glad that a tire company made an effort to provide more options to the RV owner.

You've "assumed" several things in your above post. "Now as we also know" is presuming that "we also know"..... what you know from 40 years in the business...most don't know.

Next is your statement:" I do not understand the apparent confusion about these basic engineering principles." Not everyone is an Engineer and not everyone knows, "basic TIRE Engineering principles" or formula's for said processes....My Engineering education started out in 1968 in Electrical Engineering, then US Air Force, then I changed fields in 75' to Mining Engineering, nothing about tire manufacturing processes in either of those two fields...The rest, through my life has come with more schooling and "OJT" . All that to say, I can't assume most would know "basic principles" of particular fields...Thus, the reason for ALL the many threads on tire education/misinformation/information.

I would say that most rv owners are oblivious to tire information on rv's.. until they hit a forum like this or do the research. Until I got into some tire manufacturing myself YEARS ago with my company, I wasn't aware of all the specifics or "formula's" until I was involved in the manufacturing process. Same with ABS, ESC/ESP systems and brake calipers, it all comes with education and on the job training..So if I discuss these components with someone asking questions about them, , I don't 'assume" everyone knows how they work or the R&D put into the development and manufacturing of said products...


Thus the reason for all these tire threads and any other threads asking for information on "whatever" that come up on these and other forums...

NC you are correct and I was wrong to write in the manner I did. My appologies. I've been spending too much time with the folks that read my RV Tire Blog where these concepts have been covered.

Hey, no big deal....I've done the same thing explaining ABS systems, brake calipers, even Mining certifications years and years ago...and I'd really thought some of the people I dealt with years ago would have been all over understanding those laws especially when it came to methane monitoring systems in the coal mines. I understand, I really do..:)

[Tireman9]

NC Hauler wrote:

Tireman9 wrote:
As we all know it is the air that carries the load. Basically the more air volume (larger tire) and higher inflation pressure the higher the load capacity.

Now as we also know it is Heat that kills tires the faster rubber is "bent" through deflection the hotter it gets. A tire of size S and Load L at inflation pressure P will run hotter if it is run at speed 75 mph i.e. more bends per minute than when run slower say at 65 mph.

Now it is possible to vary L and/or P to achieve the same temperature when a tire is run at 75 as when at 65.

I do not understand the apparent confusion about these basic engineering principles.

If a tire company wants to provide a special 'non-standard" tire for a small special part of the tire market by using a "non-standard" set of Load, Pressure and Speed then I see no reason to be confused. I would think RV owners should be glad that a tire company made an effort to provide more options to the RV owner.

You've "assumed" several things in your above post. "Now as we also know" is presuming that "we also know"..... what you know from 40 years in the business...most don't know.

Next is your statement:" I do not understand the apparent confusion about these basic engineering principles." Not everyone is an Engineer and not everyone knows, "basic TIRE Engineering principles" or formula's for said processes....My Engineering education started out in 1968 in Electrical Engineering, then US Air Force, then I changed fields in 75' to Mining Engineering, nothing about tire manufacturing processes in either of those two fields...The rest, through my life has come with more schooling and "OJT" . All that to say, I can't assume most would know "basic principles" of particular fields...Thus, the reason for ALL the many threads on tire education/misinformation/information.

I would say that most rv owners are oblivious to tire information on rv's.. until they hit a forum like this or do the research. Until I got into some tire manufacturing myself YEARS ago with my company, I wasn't aware of all the specifics or "formula's" until I was involved in the manufacturing process. Same with ABS, ESC/ESP systems and brake calipers, it all comes with education and on the job training..So if I discuss these components with someone asking questions about them, , I don't 'assume" everyone knows how they work or the R&D put into the development and manufacturing of said products...


Thus the reason for all these tire threads and any other threads asking for information on "whatever" that come up on these and other forums...

NC you are correct and I was wrong to write in the manner I did. My appologies. I've been spending too much time with the folks that read my RV Tire Blog where these concepts have been covered.

[FastEagle]

fj12ryder wrote:
I believe you mean "rim width of 6.5 inches". Otherwise that would be a very small tire for a 5th wheel. 🙂

FE

[fj12ryder]

I believe you mean "rim width of 6.5 inches". Otherwise that would be a very small tire for a 5th wheel. 🙂

[FastEagle]

FastEagle

[FastEagle]

wantabe351 wrote:
...On a Cat Scale my Montana axle weight is 12,655lbs with 7k axles(axle tag) but a tire limit of 6750lbs...My tires are the Goodyear Marathons 235/85-16e's....now after the third tire going bad.. last week was my third tire..tread is deformed from belt elongation...2011 Montana3400L with W/D and a Gen is heavy but not over weight(limit of 15,650lbs)..so when i get home Im going for all new tires I want a LRG tire but its hard to find a good tire,but going to a 17.5 rim/tire there a about 7 good brands to choose from..Now Herecules has a LRF and Kenda has a LRG and both are 235/85-16. the rims on the 5er are rated for 110psi so the rims i have will work.....any thoughts

FastEagle

[CapriRacer]

Me Again wrote:
....Lots of people are hanging their hats on this Nylon overlay, and we still read a lot about Tow Max(added the overlay in recent years) and Marathon failures. Both of these are more widely used on RV trailers, as they are standard fair from Tredit. http://www.tredittire.com/Radial-Tires-C8.aspx

So best of luck with them and keep us informed.

Chris

Everyone needs to be aware that using the nylon overlay (cap ply) is a step in the right direction, but it doesn't necessarily follow that it will completely correct the problem. Tire Engineering is much more complex than that.

[NC_Hauler]

Tireman9 wrote:
As we all know it is the air that carries the load. Basically the more air volume (larger tire) and higher inflation pressure the higher the load capacity.

Now as we also know it is Heat that kills tires the faster rubber is "bent" through deflection the hotter it gets. A tire of size S and Load L at inflation pressure P will run hotter if it is run at speed 75 mph i.e. more bends per minute than when run slower say at 65 mph.

Now it is possible to vary L and/or P to achieve the same temperature when a tire is run at 75 as when at 65.

I do not understand the apparent confusion about these basic engineering principles.

If a tire company wants to provide a special 'non-standard" tire for a small special part of the tire market by using a "non-standard" set of Load, Pressure and Speed then I see no reason to be confused. I would think RV owners should be glad that a tire company made an effort to provide more options to the RV owner.

You've "assumed" several things in your above post. "Now as we also know" is presuming that "we also know"..... what you know from 40 years in the business...most don't know.

Next is your statement:" I do not understand the apparent confusion about these basic engineering principles." Not everyone is an Engineer and not everyone knows, "basic TIRE Engineering principles" or formula's for said processes....My Engineering education started out in 1968 in Electrical Engineering, then US Air Force, then I changed fields in 75' to Mining Engineering, nothing about tire manufacturing processes in either of those two fields...The rest, through my life has come with more schooling and "OJT" . All that to say, I can't assume most would know "basic principles" of particular fields...Thus, the reason for ALL the many threads on tire education/misinformation/information.

I would say that most rv owners are oblivious to tire information on rv's.. until they hit a forum like this or do the research. Until I got into some tire manufacturing myself YEARS ago with my company, I wasn't aware of all the specifics or "formula's" until I was involved in the manufacturing process. Same with ABS, ESC/ESP systems and brake calipers, it all comes with education and on the job training..So if I discuss these components with someone asking questions about them, , I don't 'assume" everyone knows how they work or the R&D put into the development and manufacturing of said products...


Thus the reason for all these tire threads and any other threads asking for information on "whatever" that come up on these and other forums...