Towing Heavy 5er with SRW Truck

[travisgsf]

I personally don't as my unit is 11k dry. I see a lot of SRW diesel trucks (newer models which I know handle more than older ones) towing huge 5th wheels or toy haulers.

Any of you have a setup like this? I'm talking 14,000+lbs of dry weight. From what I see the newer 250/2500 trucks pull around 16,000-17,000 at their max.

I was curious to know how these things actually tow with that much weight. Do you feel in control? Tow weight and truck is always a huge topic on every forum. I know almost everyone says go dually but not many people do.

[cummins2014]

Me Again wrote:

afishinado wrote:
Thanks guys for the heads up... Somewhere I read the 6.4 was best they made of the International engines, and it was tone one to get... Just looked deeper into the 6.4 Ford.. Can't justify a 2011 or newer truck any more than I can justify $80k for my 1st trailer...
Looks like it'll be a Duramax or a Cummins

Go find a 2006 or 2007 Chassic GM D/A with the LBZ engine and 6 speed Allison. Best there was!

Chris

Do you have some stats to back that up, I could make the same claim about the 7.3

[Me_Again]

afishinado wrote:
Thanks guys for the heads up... Somewhere I read the 6.4 was best they made of the International engines, and it was tone one to get... Just looked deeper into the 6.4 Ford.. Can't justify a 2011 or newer truck any more than I can justify $80k for my 1st trailer...
Looks like it'll be a Duramax or a Cummins

Go find a 2006 or 2007 Chassic GM D/A with the LBZ engine and 6 speed Allison. Best there was!

Chris

[gitane59]

afishinado wrote:
Thanks guys for the heads up... Somewhere I read the 6.4 was best they made of the International engines, and it was tone one to get... Just looked deeper into the 6.4 Ford.. Can't justify a 2011 or newer truck any more than I can justify $80k for my 1st trailer...
Looks like it'll be a Duramax or a Cummins

Nothing wrong with the 2010 Ford 6.4L engine. We have had zero problems with our 2010 6.4L engine. It is strong and quiet.
Fuel economy is nothing to write home about but now with 65K miles it is runnning pefectly and has never been touched.
I do agree though I would probably stay away from the 08 and 09 as they seems to not be as reliable. With radiator and turbo hose issues.

[Shepherd]

Our dually fits just fine in our garage.:C

[afishinado]

Thanks guys for the heads up... Somewhere I read the 6.4 was best they made of the International engines, and it was tone one to get... Just looked deeper into the 6.4 Ford.. Can't justify a 2011 or newer truck any more than I can justify $80k for my 1st trailer...
Looks like it'll be a Duramax or a Cummins

[Me_Again]

psford wrote:

Me Again wrote:

afishinado wrote:
Trying to do my due diligence on the tow vehicle selection. Looking at towing 5th wheel toy hauler... The pin weight is high on them when empty, but with two Harleys on the tail I think it'll be well within SRW territory which is what I really want. Now I need to investigate this 19.5" wheel thing you guys are talking about.

Edit: You guys mentioned 'late model' trucks being better at this than they were.. Would 08-10 be considered late enough model? Looking for one in that year range as I like the GM & Ford diesels they used at that time.

You probably do not want a 08-09 Ford 6.4 diesel. The 2010 was the first year of the 6.7. To me it would be anyone after the 7.3 however!

Chris

You may want to check your facts, the 6.7 Power Stroke was first introduced in model year 2011, 2010 was still the 6.4 2008-2010

OK, sorry! He should not get a 2010 Ford either! Chris

[psford]

Me Again wrote:

afishinado wrote:
Trying to do my due diligence on the tow vehicle selection. Looking at towing 5th wheel toy hauler... The pin weight is high on them when empty, but with two Harleys on the tail I think it'll be well within SRW territory which is what I really want. Now I need to investigate this 19.5" wheel thing you guys are talking about.

Edit: You guys mentioned 'late model' trucks being better at this than they were.. Would 08-10 be considered late enough model? Looking for one in that year range as I like the GM & Ford diesels they used at that time.

You probably do not want a 08-09 Ford 6.4 diesel. The 2010 was the first year of the 6.7. To me it would be anyone after the 7.3 however!

Chris

You may want to check your facts, the 6.7 Power Stroke was first introduced in model year 2011, 2010 was still the 6.4 2008-2010

[Cummins12V98]

NC Hauler wrote:
BUT...what happens if the connection between the truck and 5er comes unplugged or malfunctions?? I agree with both of you about disk brakes on the RV, BUT, I'm talking about having enough truck towing a very heavy 5er and one loses the braking ability of the 5er...it doesn't matter what kind of brakes you have on the 5er "IF" you lose the ability to make the brakes on the 5er work....THAT's when the EB, the T/H mode using the tranny to help slow one down, THEN the brakes that are on the TV itself...That's what I was getting at. It happened to me, bad thing, it was on a 7% grade downhill.....

My truck and the dinky electric brakes work like a charm, have never had an issue, they work flawlessly........until the cable from the 5er to the truck became disconnected...now, no brakes on the 5er...doesn't matter if they're disk brakes or not....if no connection, your truck now has to stop all this weight..THAT is what I was talking about.....

Agree, one has to have enough truck to stop all that weight, just in case something happens to someone while towing.....like it did to me.

I had the same problem coming off the freeway in Redding going to the Elks to spend the night. It was with my 98 Ram with so so brakes and thankfully an exhaust brake. If no EB I would have went thru the light.

With this combo I have now at 8K more weight I am sure I will stop much better than the 98 did on that off ramp.

[Cummins12V98]

kakampers wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

j2catfish wrote:
One thing that always causes me pause is this idea that the truck has to be big enough to stop the 5er. That would be a good built-in safety factor but shouldn't the trailer brakes be good enough to stop the trailer? I know that might be a challenge for the electrical brakes commonly used but more and more rigs are using electric over hydraulic disk brakes and really have a greater stopping ability. Not to start the war over, but what do you think?
Catfish

My truck and DRV stop seamlessly because of the MaxBrake and the disk brakes on the RV. Sounds like a chichi but there is no delay you just feel the truck stop like driving solo. Before this combo I never thought that was possible.

What is important is having enough truck to handle the length and weight of what you are hauling in any conditions.

Although we seldom agree...I DO agree wholeheartedly on this subject!!

Our 2011 Chevy with tow/haul and exhaust brake and Landmark WITH disc brakes feels the same way...and we never dreamed it was possible to stop so seemlessly! Having "enough" truck for the load AND great trailer brakes makes all the difference!!

Awesome, that put a smile on my face!

[fj12ryder]

afishinado wrote:
Trying to do my due diligence on the tow vehicle selection. Looking at towing 5th wheel toy hauler... The pin weight is high on them when empty, but with two Harleys on the tail I think it'll be well within SRW territory which is what I really want. Now I need to investigate this 19.5" wheel thing you guys are talking about.

Edit: You guys mentioned 'late model' trucks being better at this than they were.. Would 08-10 be considered late enough model? Looking for one in that year range as I like the GM & Ford diesels they used at that time.

The weight in the back won't change the pin weight as much as you think it might. When I load our bikes, which weigh about 1200 lbs., it only changes the pin weight 40 lbs. So it just depends on the geometry of your particular toyhauler.

[Me_Again]

afishinado wrote:
Trying to do my due diligence on the tow vehicle selection. Looking at towing 5th wheel toy hauler... The pin weight is high on them when empty, but with two Harleys on the tail I think it'll be well within SRW territory which is what I really want. Now I need to investigate this 19.5" wheel thing you guys are talking about.

Edit: You guys mentioned 'late model' trucks being better at this than they were.. Would 08-10 be considered late enough model? Looking for one in that year range as I like the GM & Ford diesels they used at that time.

You probably do not want a 08-10 Ford 6.4 diesel. The 2011 was the first year of the 6.7. To me it would be anyone after the 7.3 however!

Chris

[Winged_One]

MTPockets1 wrote:
I towed my 5vr the first year with SRW. Pin weight was 3400 lbs. With added weight of in bed tool box, hitch, people, I was 600 lbs over my door label limit. The truck towed just fine, stopped fine, but I was over and chose to get the DRW which I am more comfortable with. Fact is, the SRW was overloaded, DRW is not. If your SRW is overloaded it's not enough truck for the payload. Will you get away with it? Probably, but doesn't change the fact. It's physics. Over is over. Over

Exactly my story. Amazing how similar.

Only thing I would add was the SRW was just a bit more squirely in corners. Not much, just a bit.

Edit: You guys mentioned 'late model' trucks being better at this than they were.. Would 08-10 be considered late enough model? Looking for one in that year range as I like the GM & Ford diesels they used at that time.


My 08 SRW was overweight. A 13 SRW would not have been (but not by much). However, for $500 more I could get a DRW. I got the DRW which has payload to spare.

[Me_Again]

bad99ram wrote:
I would think that since a transporter is commercial they have to stop at weigh stations. If they were not within limits they would be in trouble.

Study the federal bridge weight laws! It is very difficult for a pickup to exceed them! This is what the LEO in the chicken coops go by. Look at page 4.3!
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/nr/rdonlyres/ee2d33c7-e6a0-4c58-9bd9-ae05c003b327/0/vehicleguide.pdf

Here is what it says for Washington State, all states and provinces are basically the same.

Legal Weights
Gross vehicle weight (GVW) for a vehicle or a vehicle combination is determined by an overlapping set of three criteria: tire size, axle weight, and the weight table (Appendix 3).

The lesser of any one of the criteria will govern the weight of any axle or axle group.

For help in determining the legal gross vehicle weight, call the Commercial Vehicle Services Office at 360-704-6340.

Legal Weight Maximums
Gross Vehicle Weight 105,500 pounds
Single Axle 20,000 pounds
Tandem Axle 34,000 pounds
Two Tire Axle 500 pounds per inch width,* except**
Steer Axle 600 pounds per inch width

*As marked by the manufacturer on the sidewall. Metric conversion to inches: divide metric size by 25.4 (i.e., 285 ÷ 25.4 = 11.22 inches).

**Fixed steer axles, driver operated, equipped with single tires are limited to 600 pounds per inch width. Other than the steer axle, axles carrying more than 10,000 pounds and equipped with single tires are limited to 500 pounds per inch width. For other exceptions, refer to RCW 46.44.042 Maximum Gross Weights – Axle and Tire Factors.

So based on this with my LT265's I can have 12520 on the front axle and 10433 on the rear axle. I dually with LT235 can have 11102 on the front axle and 20K on the rear axle.

But wait, it says the lessers of the three. So does a pickup default to its "axle weight"! Is that the manufacturers GAWR or the rating of the physical axle? Guess I will have to call the number above today!

You do not see GAWR, GVWR, or GCWR anywhere in this formula!

These are the weight laws that are in place to protect the highways and bridges.

On Edit: I just called the number referenced above and her answer was this applies to commerical vehicles. I asked if she thought a pickup could exceed the weight laws, and she said "you are allowed 20K on a single axle and 34K on a set of tandem axles, so no!" Then she talked about tire width and the formula for steer axles and axles with just two tires, like I posted above! I said I find nothing in the state code about GVWR, and she agreed that it is not there.

So, the weight police exist on forums like this, but not in the world of hauling loads for non-commercial.

Chris

[afishinado]

Trying to do my due diligence on the tow vehicle selection. Looking at towing 5th wheel toy hauler... The pin weight is high on them when empty, but with two Harleys on the tail I think it'll be well within SRW territory which is what I really want. Now I need to investigate this 19.5" wheel thing you guys are talking about.

Edit: You guys mentioned 'late model' trucks being better at this than they were.. Would 08-10 be considered late enough model? Looking for one in that year range as I like the GM & Ford diesels they used at that time.

[bad99ram]

I would think that since a transporter is commercial they have to stop at weigh stations. If they were not within limits they would be in trouble.