2014 Coachmen Freelander 21QB review

[adayjk]

My wife and I just bought a 2014 Coachmen Freelander 21QB. It is our second class C MH, and our previous was a 1992 Coachmen Catalina (about 23’).
We decided to buy a new RV after we found reoccurring water damage in our last MH. We bought our old MH dirt cheap because of the water damage, and enjoyed it for 3 years. It was the test we needed to determine if a class C MH was for us.
The 21QB has almost the exact same layout as the Catalina from decades earlier. There is a queen bed in the back (wider), a real bathroom door (no accordion door), and a U shaped dinette. We looked at a few slide out models in the 21 to 24’ class C range and discovered that, in our opinion, the slide out didn't offer enough increase in floor space to warrant the weight, complexity, and cost.
Our 21QB is built on the newer Chevy Express 4500 chassis. I did some research on the engine and transmission. Despite the fact that I am really more of a Ford guy, the Chevy seems like a good platform. We tow a 3500# (loaded) enclosed trailer on most trips.
This is my review after 5 days and about 600 miles in the new RV.
Pros:
• The 4500 Chevy chassis really worked well. The ride was reasonable, if bouncy. The power was great, much better than the 454 in the Catalina. The transmission’s 6 speeds and tow haul features were also an asset. The engine braking feature really makes full stops from speed more relaxing. And almost 10 MPG (9.8) with first trip with a trailer.
• The floor plan really feels more spacious even if it isn't truly bigger. Fits with our two kids and a dog reasonably well.
• The décor is nice, and the stock van seats are much better than the puffy blue conversion ones in the Catalina.
• The full height toilet is much better for all the obvious reasons.
• The basement storage is great. I’ll bet I didn't have 2 cubic feet of outside storage on the Catalina.
• Lots and lots of storage inside and out.
• Lots of bright lights.
Cons:
• I didn't think I would miss the extra sink well, but the single sink well is much harder to deal with. I’m accepting with a little extra rinse water use that I can adapt. I had a good system going in the Catalina, and I used both sides of the sink.
• The lights are too bright and the two bulb ones do not allow single or dual illumination. This makes the bunk and bed lights useless because you have an epic light in your face whenever it is on. LEDs and fixture changes will happen in the future. The Catalina was better in this respect.
• Wiring the brake controller was, er, … let’s just call it … expletively difficult (forum rules). No one has the proper wiring diagrams for a 2014 yet, and there are changes from 2013. The BCM sends the only usable brake signal. There was no B+ wire for the trailer breakaway battery either. Many of the Fords come with an integrated controller. Chevy may offer one, but it was not on any of the units I saw. A buddy that works at a GM dealer helped me find the brown BCM plug and I tested each wire until I found the CHMSL wire.
• No keyless entry. The Ford I toured had it, my Chevy based RV did not.
• No spare? Don’t get me started on that. I stole the spare from the Catalina. Fits perfect, problem solved.
• The full height toilet squeaks like cheap plastic anytime a person is seated.
• No swivel seat. I know most class Cs don’t have them, but I saw a 2013 E350 with a passenger side one.
• Exactly one 12v socket in the whole house (and two in the cab). The ones in the cab go dead when the key is off. I’m adding a few, the Catalina had a handful.
• Upswing instead of side swing overhead cabinets. Guillotines on hinges!
• No TV for the kids from the belted seats that can see the TV while in motion. There is a lockout on the TV and DVD player power when the key is in the on position.
• Only front speakers.
Defects and problems:
• The dealer claimed to have run the Onan 4000 gen set for an hour before the PDI. At home we exercised it for 30 minutes and it quit. It showed 0.75 on the hour meter! Fuel pump was dead. The dealer refused to make an appointment, because they could not perform the warranty work. According to them only Cummins can honor the warranty. They also refused to order a pump for me unless I paid up front. I begrudgingly fixed it myself, with a pump I bought out of pocket. It could have quit at 7 minutes or 7 hours, but in this case if General RV (Wixom, MI) had done what they said to my face it would have broke before I bought it. I’m sure it was an honest mistake, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating.
• Someone at the factory kicked a hole in the end of the dinette, and then patched with a blob of flooring glue (pictures on request). DW spotted it in the parking lot after the PDI. The dealer supposedly ordered new wood, but now that I see how it is put together I may just create some tall base molding to cover it up. Plus I don’t think they will ever call to tell me the wood is in anyway.
• I noticed a crooked steering wheel on straight mostly flat roads. On arrival at our camping spot I also noticed tire wear on the front tires. A short investigation with a tape measure indicated that it was set at over 3/8” toed out! The new Chevy chassis uses inner and outer tie rods like a front drive car, so the DW and I performed a campsite alignment aiming for zero toe. I also adjusted for the crooked wheel at the same time. Done for now. I would ask the dealer for a free alignment, but I’m sure I’ll just feel disappointed when they either tell me it’s not a warranty item, or it’s off to a Chevy dealer. No additional tire wear on the rest of the trip.
• An uncut zip tie was rubbing on the LH DRWs and pulled a harness down. I spotted it and fixed it before any real damage occurred.
• The in dash radio will only play with the key on. That runs the chassis battery dead and turns off the TV and DVD player. I’m calling it a defect especially since I found the bare ends of the rear speaker wires in an unsecured mess in the dash when I decided to fix this problem. The wires were already hitting the metal support bracket. In short order the speaker output channels would have died.
• A cool screw though a wire, a leaking water valve, and some scary looking screw points in various places were the rest of the defects. They were all easily fixed.

Conclusions:
There are a pretty good list of cons and defects. It really highlights the wrong message. I am happy with my new Freelander. Don’t get me wrong, about 6 or 7 hours into fixing up my new RV I was feeling pretty taken.
Now that we have addressed most of the defects and problems, I think I am over the hump of initial problems. All the big stuff, the engine, the trans, the exterior body, the main shell, and the roof seem to be good. The fridge, AC, and now the gen set are doing well. I suspect that I will be able to enjoy many great times on trips with the new RV. The DW and I decided on this purchase because our kids are in the “past a toddler, not old enough to drive” age where we can really enjoy some good times with them camping.

[mlts22]

Just curious, what is the roof like on that rig? I worry about roofs that are not fiberglass because only a thin string of caulk separates your rig's value from turning into rotted scrap. I've heard that some motorhomes have a decent rubber roof with very few seams.

[j-d]

Congratulations, and glad you like your new coach! Sounds like your dealer came through for you pretty well. Seems it would have been just as easy, no more expensive, and better, to just do what's needed in the first place, though.

[BiscuitEater]

Great review and info, "adayjk"!
I'm looking at that exact model -- and I can see how a relatively low-volume factory could have the kinds of quality issues that you encountered.

I'm afraid I would not have the all of the patience that you have displayed. Certainly have never aligned my front end with a tape measure. 🙂

I'm glad to hear that you like the vehicle and appreciate the "heads-up" info.

[rearnold]

adayjk Wrote:

I found a thermostat adjustment write up online and performed it.

Could you post the link to the thermostat adjustment write up?

Thank

Bob

[adayjk]

Update:

The original point of the post was to talk about the 21QB. I'm digging this back up because I mentioned the selling dealer, and their roll in my adventure in this thread.

I'm always careful when discussing my transactions with businesses online. That is particularly true when I discuss negative things. I try to stick to the facts, and not post much about emotions.

General RV sent me a survey. I filled it out and I carefully told then about some of the problems, and briefly about how I felt. They called to ask if they could help, and the same day they called to tell me my parts were in. Obviously someone had suddenly gotten the ball rolling since it had been many months with no news.

After a long but constructive phone call about my experience, I have an appointment in a month to have the dinette fixed. They offered to winterize the unit for free, and to take the unit to have a proper alignment performed. I accepted. They also offered to pay me for the brake controller install they agreed to perform. I declined since my out of pocket expenses were very low, and it didn't seem fair to charge General RV for something they would have done for me for free if I was willing to wait.

Since the thread was really about the 21QB unit, I'll update my experiences. The RV has worked well on a 15 day trip, and a weekend trip. MPG has stayed in the high 9 MPG range (no surprise). I bypassed the silly lockouts on the radio and TV/DVD so they work when I turn them on. The relay box for the TV/DVD plug is behind the microwave. The new version of the 6.0 l is very peppy, and it has been handy a time or two during those "someone's lane is about to end" situations where it is just safest to get out of the way. The AC refused to get cold and stay cold on a few hot days. Initially I assumed it was related to freeze up protection, or just as good as it could do. I found a thermostat adjustment write up online and performed it. I can adjust to "meat locker" now if I prefer. I added the heat strip at the same time, and it works good. Dog farts set off the propane/CO detector at 2am. The generator socket in the electrical cord room has gotten loose enough the plug falls out. Its on my maintenance list for the winter. Despite a pretty good list of up front problems things are settling in and the unit seems like it will be good long term.

[adayjk]

dougsrv4mx wrote:
We looked at the same unit, nice roomy layout without a slide. Not a fan of the corner bed though. Picking up a Freelander 28DS on Monday with the same Chevy chassis. It has a walk around rear bed. Have you checked the MPG without a trailer?

Congrads on your new RV! I allegedly got 9.8 mpg on the ride home without my trailer. I'd take it with a grain of salt though. That was still on the gas left in the tank, based on a the dash based MPG reading. I prefer to do the math by hand since the dash based numbers often seem off.

The privacy of the 28DS seems good, with the walk through bath. Check your hot water bypass valve. Mine leaked, and the tech said that it wasn't the first new one he had seen leakng. I think they put too much pressure on them during assembly because of the tiny lines at the tees they connect it to. It was missed by the dealer, and I noticed the stain on the wood during the PDI.

[adayjk]

West Beachhouse wrote:
OMG...my statement regarding your ordeal, what would I do if I was the owner and I do not have the mechanical/handyman experience to fix all the issues you identified?

I suppose that is why so often I've read that a delivery should include an overnight stay and an almost epic checkout.

I hate to admit this, but I already knew how poorly these things are made. As sad as it is that "street price" of most small class Cs of this size is $50k it really still is a cheap RV. I wasn't really prepared for the gen set fuel pump, or the alignment to be so far off to cause visually noticeable wear in a few hundred miles, or a 10 hour ordeal (research and physical work) to get the trailer 7 way fully working. Those things caused me the most stress, and while in some perfect world the dealer could have been more helpful, those three things were not their fault. Two were workmanship issues at Forest River and one was the luck of the draw with Onan.

Your comment makes sense though. Most people that buy these things don't want to do dozens of hours of work to get them to function properly, if they can even do the work. It really limits the market to DIY types to have a happy customer right after the sale. So really Forest River got lucky with this one. I'm a happy customer despite the annoyances, but am I really the norm? I can imagine a similar unit turning into a three page horror story if the people and the circumstances changed a bit.

[Snowman9000]

My 2004-based Chevy only ran the radio in the IGN position too. I don't know if they have changed the factory wiring, but there was a four wire harness from the chassis, behind my radio. (The MH maker installed the radio.) The four colors were brown, red/white, black, and white. They hooked up the main radio power to the brown, which was an IGN circuit. The red/white is hot all the time. I don't recall the functioning of the black and white, but they didn't come into play. So I installed a SPDT switch on the dash:

-- Red/white
-- To radio power
-- Brown

Now I can power the radio for camping by flipping the switch to the red/white wire. Obviously I have to remember to turn the switch back to the IGN side when not using the radio while stopped.

[dougsrv4mx]

We looked at the same unit, nice roomy layout without a slide. Not a fan of the corner bed though. Picking up a Freelander 28DS on Monday with the same Chevy chassis. It has a walk around rear bed. Have you checked the MPG without a trailer?

[West_Beachhouse]

OMG...my statement regarding your ordeal, what would I do if I was the owner and I do not have the mechanical/handyman experience to fix all the issues you identified?