30 amp is really 20amp

[debbiep63]

Am I the only one who pays for 30amp service only to get a 30 amp socket with 20amp or less power?? This has happened several times in the past five weeks of travel. I don't think it's nice to try and fool an RV'er.

[ScottG]

Old-Biscuit wrote:
For the very first time I have to agree with 'westernrvparkowner'

The world is surely going to end..............:E

I refuse to do it under ANY circumstances..


Debbie, you have a voltage drop someplace. One of the easiest things to do is simply touch the plug and breakers while this is happening. If you feel heat then that's where your problem is.

Good luck and please keep posting. There's always a few goof balls on any forum - don't pay any attention to them.
The rest of us don't! 😉

Scott

[pianotuna]

Hi Western,

I'd expect nothing less from a camp owner like you. You don't "low ball" anything for your guests. I hope they appreciate it.

I forgot about the two legs. That makes a 200 amp "look" like 400 amps (200 per leg) from the RV end.

I run my 30 amp rv all electric most of the time--but I've "cheated" by adding two auxiliary shore power cords (wired to code), one for the converter (20 amp) and one for the water heater (15 amp). I used a system of male and female plugs so I can switch back to OEM configuration in seconds.

I'll never be in the market for a "big rig", and mostly I boondock.

[westernrvparkow]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi WesternRVparkowner,

That's a nice factoid on the 7 fifty amp circuits on a 200 amp breaker. Thanks for sharing it.

Of course even large RV's with twin 15000 btu air conditioners going "flat out" are only drawing about 3000 watts (~25 amps). So 25 X 7 is still only about 175 amps of that 200.

Does anyone complain of voltage drop?

Never have voltage problems. I spent the money and have rock solid electrical systems and I service the connections regularly. You haven't been to many RV parks and looked at the big rigs lately, have you? The trend now is all electric coaches, three and 4 air conditioners and all the trimmings. But that is the reasoning behind the NEC. All four air conditioners are usually not running at the same time, and they surely aren't all starting at the same time. Then all 7 rigs aren't running their vaccum cleaners and microwave ovens and electric cooktops, while blow drying their hair at the same time as everyone else. The loads will spike at one rig and valley at another. In the end, neither of the 200 amp legs will ever exceed 200 amps at any given moment, even though the pedestals give a potential of 350 amps per leg. Hence why the NEC calculates loads instead of just adding up potential.

[pianotuna]

Hi WesternRVparkowner,

That's a nice factoid on the 7 fifty amp circuits on a 200 amp breaker. Thanks for sharing it.

Of course even large RV's with twin 15000 btu air conditioners going "flat out" are only drawing about 3000 watts (~25 amps). So 25 X 7 is still only about 175 amps of that 200.

Does anyone complain of voltage drop?

[westernrvparkow]

Harvey51 wrote:

WesternRVparkowner wrote:
You find the same thing if you go to your electrical panel in your house and add up the all the breakers. Their value will far exceed the 200 amps your service is called

It works okay in a house because you never use all the outlets at the same time. But on a hot day in an RV park everyone will want the full 30A. A loop of ten sites will need a 300A breaker or perhaps two lines of 150A.

It may make logical sense, but it is not true. The national electrical code has a demand calculation that allows for the sum of the potential services to exceed the breaker rating and still be in code. I don't have the formulas for the 30 amp services since we do not have 30 amp services, but it absolutely in code to have seven 50 amp services served from a 200 amp main. We do it and even when we are completely full with big rigs on the hottest of days, we have never had a main trip.

[Harvey51]

WesternRVparkowner wrote:
You find the same thing if you go to your electrical panel in your house and add up the all the breakers. Their value will far exceed the 200 amps your service is called

It works okay in a house because you never use all the outlets at the same time. But on a hot day in an RV park everyone will want the full 30A. A loop of ten sites will need a 300A breaker or perhaps two lines of 150A.

[westernrvparkow]

ken07734 wrote:
hmmm, I can say that I have to ask for a 50 amp site because the moment I turn on my AC the circuit breaker on the pedestal trips on every CG I have stayed at so far since buying my 2013 TT in April of 2013 and I have had it in for warranty work and had that checked and will again in September as with ONLY the AC on and NO other appliances it trips "Unless" I have it plugged into the 50 amp via the adaptor. I have been wanting as I do have a degree in Electronics although many moons ago to measure the actual amperage being used or drawn just before the 30 amp trips and what is powered up at the time and then run that same test connected to the 50 amp to see what the actual draw is for all items powered. It would very devious for CG owner to have only 20 amp service supplied by a 30 amp receptacle although it can be done and would save the CG owner money I am not sure if the legallities and or the customer complaints would be worth the trouble.

Don't know what money you think a campground could save having a 20 amp breaker serving a 30 amp plug. The electricity saved would be in the pennies. My guess is you have a hard starting AC unit and the startup amps are exceeding 30. Pretty easy to test with a clamp meter, which you can buy at Harbor Freight for less than $30.00. You will need to have a way to separate out the three wires so you can clamp around the hot wire. Best way is to have a short 30 amp extension cord and split the outside insulation so the three wires are exposed. They should be white, black and green. The black will be the hot wire. Turn the meter to amperage and set the side button to "hold" plug in your rig and wait till the breaker trips. The reading on the meter will be the maximum amperage drawn by your rig during that time. That will give you your answer.

[j-d]

The 30A part of campground pedestals (breaker and receptacle) really get abused. RVers plug in and out with a load applied and that scorched the receptacle. They turn the breaker on with a load on it and much of the time the load is right at max. Also, at last by my understanding, the average breaker isn't meant to also be used as a switch. Far as I know the pedestals use those breakers, not the more expensive switch-capable ones.
Remember, when you plug into one side of 50A, you're plugged into 50A NOT 25A. You're also using more robust receptacle and plug. Problem when I do that is the Adapter-to-RV Shore Tie connection gets hot.

[ken07734]

hmmm, I can say that I have to ask for a 50 amp site because the moment I turn on my AC the circuit breaker on the pedestal trips on every CG I have stayed at so far since buying my 2013 TT in April of 2013 and I have had it in for warranty work and had that checked and will again in September as with ONLY the AC on and NO other appliances it trips "Unless" I have it plugged into the 50 amp via the adaptor. I have been wanting as I do have a degree in Electronics although many moons ago to measure the actual amperage being used or drawn just before the 30 amp trips and what is powered up at the time and then run that same test connected to the 50 amp to see what the actual draw is for all items powered. It would very devious for CG owner to have only 20 amp service supplied by a 30 amp receptacle although it can be done and would save the CG owner money I am not sure if the legallities and or the customer complaints would be worth the trouble.

[crawford]

I know for sure if I plugged up and only got 20 amps my system would pop breaker in a heart break. Running electric hot water rod,2AC,frig.TV's Electric grill out side. Never had a problem except running both AC's at once LOL.

[Big_Katuna]

You might want to check/tighten the lug screws on your breakers. And 30A plugs are notorious for being worn out and over heated. Feel yours next time when the AC, etc is on and if it feels warm, replace it. ALso look at it to see if it is discolored or the rubber looks melted.

[westernrvparkow]

j-d wrote:
The way the park maintenance man described it to me, the "loop" of 10 sites was served by one loop of cable, wired to 30A pedestal outlets, and served by one 100-amp fuse. I asked, Fuse, not Breaker? Yep, Fuse. The kind that looks like a big firecracker with a thick copper blade sticking out of each end? Yep. Park was probably built by the CCC in the 1930's. Doubt it had electricity at all at first, but sounded like the power could have been 1960's vintage...

Yes, probably really old wiring with worn and loose connections, those are the kind of things that cause a lot of voltage drop, and my guess is the service at the main isn't the best of the best. However, unless that 100 amp fuse is blowing all the time, or has been replaced by a copper penny (like we did in the good ole days), the circuit isn't being overloaded with those ten 30 amp connections. If it was the main would trip, or in this case, the main fuse would blow.

[j-d]

The way the park maintenance man described it to me, the "loop" of 10 sites was served by one loop of cable, wired to 30A pedestal outlets, and served by one 100-amp fuse. I asked, Fuse, not Breaker? Yep, Fuse. The kind that looks like a big firecracker with a thick copper blade sticking out of each end? Yep. Park was probably built by the CCC in the 1930's. Doubt it had electricity at all at first, but sounded like the power could have been 1960's vintage...

[time2roll]

debbiep63 wrote:
Just turning on the tv drops the volts from 118 intoI the red at 109

Ah ha! We can help with that 😉

With the tv on I would start by taking measurements at the pedestal and compare with the tv outlet to discover if the issue in the RV or at the pedestal.

Low voltage can be hard on some things so lets get this fixed.

If you are back home... give it a test there. If good at home then your first post was probably correct in that the campground supply was marginal. Reasonably common in older parks.

Many connect their RV with a power protection device that will cut power if voltage is out of spec, reverse polarity, bad ground and protects against minor power surges.