Anyone using Lithium batteries? Comments?

[VA-Apraisr]

Looking at upgrading to Battleborn Lithium batteries with charger/inverter for superior boondocking. Tired of running generator/engine to recharge the 2-Optima blue AGM batteries in use now. According to Battleborn, this will be far superior than what I'm used to seeing in terms of consumption and the daily charging cycle. I use a Dish satellite for TV, lights, furnace, frig, toaster, coffee maker, etc. With their system, I could also run the microwave without using the generator.

Anyone out there have first-hand experience with Lithium?

[pianotuna]

VA-Apraisr,

Optima have about 40% less space for active plate material. About the only thing they are good at is vibration resistance. In all other cases, a more conventional design may be a better choice.

[VA-Apraisr]

I had two 12v AGM's and are Optima Blue top. Frankly, I've had nothing but trouble with Optima batteries! Has 4 redtop in my Jeep and now had 2 sets of 2 bluetops in my RV (all replaced under warranty).

Yes, my 2003 Ford has to change out the charger to handle Lithium as well as chassis charger from alternator to batteries. But, I just want less trouble watching TV on the beach and willing to pay for it. And, a 10-year warranty certainly helps as well. I don't follow current technology like you guys are talking about above....too busy working to spend the research time, but, battleborn has been around and seems to have good reviews. I'll follow up after first beach trip at the end of October!!

[pianotuna]

Hi Phil,

I think they are similar to AGM in design.

The company is shortly going to do Li Titinate. No idea of prices. This chemistry brings new meaning to "fast charging". I.E. 6 minutes from dead to fully charged. I expect they are $$$$$

[pnichols]

pianotuna wrote:
Phil,

The charge rate hardly is an issue. Yes a single Li will recharge faster. But very few of us have only 100 amp-hours.

How many inverter/chargers can do more than 127 amps of charging? I don't know of any at all.

My plans are for 400 to 600 amp-hours of SiO2. 400 may draw 100 amps of charging, and 600 would be 150 amps. So a 400 amp-hour li bank would only charge about 20% faster than SiO2.

Thanks Don, that's about what I would have guessed.

Do you happen to know if SiO2 batteries are made up of a few (3 or 6) big cells like AGM and liquid acid batteries are?

I'm really not a fan of vehicle batteries made up of a whole bunch of little cells that have to be mounted and attached together in a bundle with a bunch of inter-connections -> that you have to trust will remain intact mile after mile, year after year.

[pianotuna]

Phil,

The charge rate hardly is an issue. Yes a single Li will recharge faster. But very few of us have only 100 amp-hours.

How many inverter/chargers can do more than 127 amps of charging? I don't know of any at all.

My plans are for 400 to 600 amp-hours of SiO2. 400 may draw 100 amps of charging, and 600 would be 150 amps. So a 400 amp-hour li bank would only charge about 20% faster than SiO2.

[pnichols]

pianotuna wrote:

craz z wrote:

The SIO2's dont look much better stat wise then a agm and way more expensive.

Then find me a battery that can be charged at -40 and can also survive being discharged totally 620 times before it degrades to 80% of OEM capacity?

Cycle life cost is cheaper than AGM.

Don - excellent points!!

Studying both SiO2 battery and LiFePo4 battery performance specs, I'm not quite sure I see LiFePo4 benefits head and shoulders above SiO2.

By the way, a lot of LiFePo4 RV battery fans seem to not know that AGM batteries charge much faster (due to their low internal resistance) than good old liquid acid batteries do, too ... just like they claim for LiFePo4 batteries in an RV. For instance, Lifeline AGM batteries are advertised to accept huge charging currents - well beyond liquid acid batteries.

The purchase cost versus lifetime performance difference between the two battery technologies seems to me to be vanishingly small ... or maybe weighted in favor of SiO2 (discounting battery weight - which is not a performance issue).

[bobndot]

just RELAX on the beach

beaches, I have heard of them. :B

[bobndot]

Thank you craz z and pianotuna for the info. Much appreciated.

[ron_dittmer]

Are your current AGMs two-12V batteries, or two-6V batteries? I ask because two 6Vs perform so much better as a pair compared to two 12V batteries.

If you later learn that Lithium can't be applied for whatever the reason, try two 6V AGMs. I went from two-12V wet acid to two-6V AGMs and "WOW" what a change for the better. I had considered Lithium, but my 2007 model year whole house inverter/charger can't handle Lithium.

[VA-Apraisr]

Cold temps are not an issue here in Virginia (seldom see even +20 degree days). Yeah, pretty sure I'm going to invest the $$$ and go this route so I can just RELAX on the beach, watch TV, and STOP watching the voltage meter on my cabinet wall 🙂

[pianotuna]

craz z wrote:

The SIO2's dont look much better stat wise then a agm and way more expensive.

Then find me a battery that can be charged at -40 and can also survive being discharged totally 620 times before it degrades to 80% of OEM capacity?

Cycle life cost is cheaper than AGM.

[craz_z]

bobndot wrote:
This subject is new to me. I am missing something here ?
During cold weather, between 0-32F, it would be necessary to preheat a Lithium battery before my solar panel starts to charge it. Correct ?
Therefore, if I have my rv stored or parked in my driveway for days or weeks, I can't just forget about it like I do using my AGM batteries, correct ?
Using lithium's , I too was thinking about using an insulated battery box and install a heat pad in order for my solar to start charging it. Therefore, I really need to leave the rv plugged in to shore power in order to heat the pads.
The only real advantage for me to use lithium is for summer use when I could drop below 50% while boondocking and not worry about charging them back up on warm days.
If that's the case, using my AGM's in the winter and lithium's in the summer seems to be a better option . Either that or look into the Si02 batts as suggested. Am I correct on my thinking ?

Depends with battleborn you do nothing the bms decides if its gonna take a charge or not. If there is capacity left over from the night and you use something in the rv they will warm up on their own and start charging. lithiums generate heat charging and discharging.

for added protection heat pads make it easier and faster to start the charge process. As does throwing a temp sensor on a victron charge controller for an added layer of protection in the rare case the bms doesn't do its job.

During storage charge to 50% or more disconnect batteries and walk away nothing else to do. Better yet bring them home inside for the winter and add anderson connectors to make the process fast.

the heat pads hardly use any energy. add insulation even less.

The SIO2's dont look much better stat wise then a agm and way more expensive.

[bobndot]

This subject is new to me. I am missing something here ?
During cold weather, between 0-32F, it would be necessary to preheat a Lithium battery before my solar panel starts to charge it. Correct ?
Therefore, if I have my rv stored or parked in my driveway for days or weeks, I can't just forget about it like I do using my AGM batteries, correct ?
Using lithium's , I too was thinking about using an insulated battery box and install a heat pad in order for my solar to start charging it. Therefore, I really need to leave the rv plugged in to shore power in order to heat the pads.
The only real advantage for me to use lithium is for summer use when I could drop below 50% while boondocking and not worry about charging them back up on warm days.
If that's the case, using my AGM's in the winter and lithium's in the summer seems to be a better option . Either that or look into the Si02 batts as suggested. Am I correct on my thinking ?

[craz_z]

I've been using DIY cells for a couple years now.

I would only consider lithium at this point for the coach side of batteries.

Power is no longer an issue. Water and sewer is what brings me back to civilization.

[Second_Chance]

We have two Battle Born 100 AH batteries with 300 watts solar, automatic transfer switch and a 2,000 watt inverter. Our main intent (and the reason we don't have more batteries and solar) was to run the residential refrigerator on long travel days. The system has done very well at doing that and more. I put the thermostatically controlled heating pads on the batteries for cold weather (batteries are mounted in the enclosed but unheated front compartment/tool/battery/generator area of a fifth wheel). We have been extremely happy with the setup. I'm glad to be rid of battery maintenance and not worry about discharging the batteries all the way.

Rob