Buying a Former Rental Class C. How many of us out there?

[IAMICHABOD]

While researching these pages for my next Motor Home I saw a few threads discussing Rentals, most were Pros and Cons but very few posts from people who had purchased one.

I thought it may be a good resource and helpful to hear from these people. The good, the bad, what they liked and what they didn’t. Also if they had any problems, things they changed, if they would recommend this to others or do it again.

Here is my story: I am not a novice, having owned a Class A for more than 15 years and doing the camping thing with my wife and two daughters, I can say “been there done that” But life changes, and I sold everything so I have been away from this for several years. Starting over I lurked here for a while and got a lot of good insight then went looking.

My criteria was: A Class C within by budget, less than 30 feet so I can keep it at home, saving storage $, a rear bed, and a lot of storage space.

What fit that was Winnebago, Fleetwood and a few others, what I found mostly was Jamboree / Tioga 26Q. In the year models 2002 thru 2006. I did my home work looking at NADA and other sites to find the fair prices for the models that I was looking for.

After several months of searching the internet, Craigslist, private ads and Dealerships for a Class C that suited my budget and needs, this is what I found. Of the dozen or so I inquired about.Most were upsidedown in their payments, owing more than they were worth. All were on Ford Chassis, 7 needed tires, all had the original 7 to 10 year old tires, and they all needed repair of the awning and most needed some work inside or out and the maintenance records were sketchy, but most had low mileage. The Dealerships offerings were better but they had a profit margin to maintain so I got older models within my budget or huge up sales that didn’t work for me.

My next step was looking at the rental market for sales. In my area there are 2 large companies that have rental sales, Cruise America and El Monte RV,who also sell Class A RVs.

First up was El Monte RV Their units are production RVs that are made by major manufactures, with TV antennas and hookups inside and out, Ducted A/C and heat, 2 house batteries, a rear ladder and parts are readily available from those manufacture’s. I looked at their web site and it detailed their warranty and what was checked and serviced by their factory trained technicians. The unit I looked at was like new inside, the upholstery on all the seats was new as was the floor mat in the driver’s area, it had a new mattress, still in plastic and a new bedspread. All of the curtains were new also. Newer (2010 mfg date) tires with 98% rubber and the mileage was ninety thousand (90,000).

Then there was Cruise America: Their units that I looked at seemed to be Spartan,no TV antenna or hookups for one,non-ducted A/C,small counter space and only one battery, no rear ladder for inspection and maintenance of roof and built just for them, they were all “refreshed” their words not mine. They offered extended warranties at a huge cost. All had high mileage, one hundred and thirty thousand (130,000) or more and the price range seemed a little high. The sales staff had a take it or leave it attitude and were not very forthcoming when asked about maintenance records and service,they claim to have proprietary info in those records,It doesn't seem to be a problem for El Monte RV.

At El Monte RV I took a test ride; This Unit was a 2006 Tioga 26Q on a Chevrolet Chassis it rode
Drove and handled much better than the Fords that I had driven. It also had more leg room and was quieter. We got back and I asked about the service and maintenance on it, the salesman, Joey, handed me a 28 page single spaced document asked if I wanted some coffee or something to drink and said “read this and if you have any questions I will answer them”.

It detailed everything that was done before and after each rental, the mileage, generator hours and hours billed. Each time it was washed and detailed inside and outside, all fluids were checked and replenished if needed, the holding tanks were washed, LP system was checked for leaks, all torque on wheel lugs were checked, brakes front and rear checked for wear and cracks, pressure in tires, all appliances, generator oil, lights inside and outside, the list goes on and on.

It also listed all oil changes,coolant change,trans service,fuel injector service and cleaning,fuel filters,air filter, new brakes, all repairs and replacements all with date, mileage and time spent in complete detail from day one to when it was pulled from the rental fleet and was refurbished. I have a complete service record on this vehicle.Also the service records on the Onan Generator,all oil changes,air filter and spark plug replacement with hours and date. I negotiated a good deal with them and am very happy with my purchase.

It came with a 1 yr. 12000 mile power train warranty and 30 day on all appliances. It also came with a 28 page maintenance record that detailed everything. Also the original sales packet from Fleetwood with the manual and serial numbers on all appliances,refrigerator, microwave,furnace, AC, water heater, etc. and the manual for the Chassis. I have had no problems with it so far.

(ON EDIT) 5 Years and close to 14000 miles.Just Scheduled Maintenance and new tires,old ones were at the 5 year mark and I wanted new Michelin LTX M/S2s.

There were a few things that it didn’t have as it was a rental and the ones from private parties did have.
• Power steps, outside Stereo/CD don’t need or want them.
• An Awning, this I wanted and had installed. A Swivel Seat and a new Window in The Door that I installed.
• Wheel Simulators, I like the looks so I had them installed and at the same time had Tire Man valve stem kit put on.
• Replaced the Chinese WFCO with a US Made converter/charger
• It came with mini blinds and not the day/night that most have, these are more practical and have a lot less failure.

• It also came with Stainless Steel sinks,easier to maintain than the cheap plastic ones that come in the noncommercial units.
  

I am very happy with my Rig, it suites my needs and it was in my Budget range, I think I got a good deal.

So if you bought a rental please share your experience here for others to use as a resource.
Or if there are any other questions that have not been covered in these pages, just ask, there are many helpful people on this thread.

[MtnBikeMarty]

(Somewhat) Cheap Hack for Patio Light conversion to bug light:

I was in my local RV store and saw this replacement patio light with a clear and amber lens, under $15, but definitely different size/shape, which would require drilling new hole(s) and resealing.


But I took the lens off mine,




Found this $10 can of transluscent yellow spray paint at my local autoparts store, and spray painted the inside and outside of the lens. And looks like this:

No drilling, no resealing the base of the light fixture. Only thing is, it might peel off or wear off with the heat, but I'll just repaint it again since there's plenty left in the can. If my LED's ever burn out, I'd replace it with the other brand, drill new holes, and seal up, but until then, this worked fine.

Took it camping in Northern AZ last week, probably reduced 90% of the bugs coming around light at night.
Happy Trails,
MtnBikeMarty

[IAMICHABOD]

ybconway:

Thanks for coming over to the Rental Thread and sharing your experience with your purchase from Canadream.I am sure it will be helpful to others that are looking to purchase a Former Rental,as I said before,it is really nice to hear from another Canadian on this thread.

I will put you on the list of Former Rental RV Owners you will be #126

Have fun with that RV and come on back and share anything else after a few trips.

Have a Great camping season.

[IAMICHABOD]

bcrunk:

Welcome back,good to hear that you Picked up that 19G.I will put you on the list of Former Rental RV Owners..You will be #125

Thanks for coming back with a great write-up on the purchase I am sure that it will help others. I am looking forward to any updates.

I hope you can get out with all the fires up there,I know that it is really smoky down here too. Be safe and have a great time in that 19G.

[ybconway]

We just picked up a 2017/18 Forester Sunseeker 24C from Canadream. It was a bit of a mess. The MH was suppose to be delivered from Montreal to Toronto but the day we showed up it wasn't there and nobody seemed to know much about it. A couple of calls to the sales department and they gave us a 2019 model on the same 450 chassis. The layout is different on this one with two slides instead of the single and about another foot of length.
I have to say for the most part I liked the layout of the newer rig but their are some differences in the quality. The older one has better hinges and finishes on the cabinetry except they share the same cheap pantry shelving and the older has less kitchen space.
The big plus on our unit is it came with Firestone airbags which I wasn't expecting.
Now we haven't put any miles on our unit compared to the one they loaned us but ours feels much lighter and more responsive to the throttle.
So from the input here I have already order bushings to change the castor, and a new Dometic 320 toilet.
I crawled under the unit and was surprised at the amount of free space under the floor and have been searching for a floor locker.

[bcrunk]

bcrunk wrote:
Hello! I'm Bill, I just put down a deposit for a CA Majestic 19G. 2017 with 118k miles on the clock. Other than an 83.5 Vanagon to dry camp in years ago, this will be our first real RV. I too have read/skimmed all 115 pages of this thread - I'll have 4 to 5 weeks of wait time for the refurbish process to re-read them.
What I don't remember reading is what to expect when I pick it up? What was included? Drain hose? Water hose? Gas? Propane? Shore line? ??
Other words, what do I need to pick up for a 2 day road trip home? Thanks to all who have contributed to this and other threads, it really makes a difference!

Hello again!
Well, the wait is finally over! We rode the train to Seattle on Friday where we was picked up by Manny, an extremely friendly and knowledgeable cab driver who is contracted with CA to pick up rental and purchase customers. We got to Everett an hour and a half before our scheduled appointment time; however, Ron -our salesman- was very welcoming to us. We talked a bit in the office then headed out to our new to us 19g!
First impression was that the unit was very clean. No visible body damage, the newly sprayed gel coat looked good. Tires were new, including the spare!
Going in the side door, the screen was in perfect shape. Replaced? The inside of the door did have what appeared to be a small hole with a patch. The step covering is new. The wood flooring was in great shape, the walls clean and in good order. The seat cushions are newly recovered in the same color as the new looking curtains. The fridge was clean, a couple small rust spots on 1 rack. It was getting cold (very cold when we left in the AM- I put ice packs the freezer that were solid), Ron had opened it up earlier in the day but it was still a bit stuffy on a lightly smokey Seattle area afternoon. We turned the AC on and in no time, it cooled down inside. Wouldn't want to run the AC for long though as it is very loud! The kitchen area is in great working order. The trim and counter top are nice. Probably a new stove cover as it had no burn marks on it! The bathroom is in nice working order.

It is used, but it all looks and works good!

The upper bunk needs some cleaning, they missed some spots on the walls. It was clean under the vinyl mattress. No sign of water damage/mold/yuck.

The generator fired up easily - 380 hrs on the monitor. The AC and microwave worked on the generator. The hot water heater works great! Water gets very hot! All the monitor lights appeared to function.
The cab is used, some scratches here in and there, the cloth seats are clean but stained. I did get a set of new covers for both seats included. All the dash lights worked, the dash AC blows cold! The heat works nice as well. All vents work as they should!
The test drive was un-eventful. The rig went straight down the road, even when I braked with no hands on the wheel. Plenty of power! All fluids appeared to be full and had the right color/smell.
The gas tank was full as was the LP. A lightly used fresh water hose and black tank hose was also included. A water pressure regulator would have been a nice inclusion; however a big box discount store was just down the street.

The drive home was about 300 miles of smiles. All of it down I-5 back home to Oregon. With most of Western Oregon on fire right now, we just came straight home after spending the night in a park in Everett.

We identified a couple small things wrong when we got home,nothing that has discouraged us from buying an ex-rental, with the deal we received from CA, or with Ron. I've communicated these items to Ron and I'm sure we'll get a resolution. I'll be sure to come back with an update on this.

From my first conversation over the phone with Ron until we said thanks and drove away took just over 2 months. Overall, we are happy, very excited and looking forward to exploring.... when the fires are out.

[fadumpt]

4 years for the coach is just under $2,000
5 years or 100k miles for the engine, transmission and rear axle is just under $1,800

Use your 3 month warranty to its fullest though. They will ship you or provide for repairs for anything you found wrong.
So buy when you can do several trips and get as much as possible fixed.

[Floridastorm]

Cruise America gives a 3 month warranty (used to be 1 year)on their rental units for sale. They also have an optional power train warranty and an optional appliances warranty. Does anyone know for how long and how much these two optional warranties are? For those that have purchased these warranties have you had luck using them? Do you think they were worth the price you paid? Also, does El Monte have similar warranties?

Thanks for any and all info provided.

Dave, Ocala, Florida :@

[IAMICHABOD]

gazebo wrote:
My local El Monte just listed one 2020 Coachmen Leprechaun

Those 2020 Coachmen Leprechaun 260RS mostly has 25K ~27K miles on it.
The picture shown those RV actually manufactured in March 2019.
So I wonder whether El Monte selling 2019 model as 2020 model ?

This may help you,it is quite common to have a year different on chassis and when the RV was sold as. Mine is a 2006 but the Chassis is a 2005,This model on a Chevy Chassis was only sold starting in 2006,MFG date is April 2006,you may find that on the RIVA sticker on the RV.

Here is an explanation from RIVA of how it works.

ANSWERS FROM RVIA: SPLIT MODEL YEARS


The Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA) has recently published a document entitled “Q & A’s on Split Model Years for Motorhomes.” As the title infers, it relates to questions that can arise regarding the chassis manufacturer’s model year and the model year assigned to the completed motor home by the final stage motor home manufacturer. Below is the original memo from RVIA for your reference and information.


Q & A’s on Split Model Years for Motorhomes

How is the manufacturing of motorhomes different from cars?

Motorhomes are “multi-stage vehicles.” This means that, unlike cars, they generally are built in two separate stages by two different manufacturers.

How is motorhome manufacturing divided into different stages?

The first-stage manufacturer, also called the “incomplete vehicle manufacturer,” assembles the motorhome chassis. This typically includes such components as the chassis frame, engine, fuel system, transmission, drive train, suspension, wheels, brakes and vehicular electrical system. These “incomplete vehicles” are then sold by the chassis manufacturer to final stage motorhome manufacturers, also called “completed vehicle manufacturers.” The motorhome manufacturers take the chassis and build the coach body, all of the “household” systems, install the appliances, cabinets, furnishings, plumbing, lighting fixtures and a multitude of various amenities, resulting in a completed vehicle.

How do first stage manufacturers identify their vehicles?

According to federal law, at 49 CFR 565.13(a), a vehicle manufactured in more than one stage must have a Vehicle Identification Number (“VIN”) assigned to it by the incomplete vehicle manufacturer. One character position in the VIN sequence identifies the model year of the incomplete vehicle. Once it is assigned, the VIN stays with the incomplete vehicle when it is sold to the motorhome manufacturer. The incomplete vehicle manufacturer may also ship the chassis with a Manufacturer’s Certificate of Origin (“MCO”). The MCO document provides information about each particular chassis.

How do final stage manufacturers identify their vehicles?

Final stage motorhome manufacturers continue to use the VIN assigned by the incomplete vehicle manufacturer. Motorhome manufacturers also provide MCO documents with their motorhomes when they are shipped to dealers. The model year of the completed motorhome, which is determined by the motorhome manufacturer, appears on this MCO document.

Why do some chassis have a different model year than the completed motorhome?

An incomplete vehicle chassis is manufactured before a completed motorhome is built on it. Motorhome manufacturers may buy hundreds, even thousands, of chassis each year. Because of variations in advance purchases of incomplete vehicle chassis, the flow of new product orders, market conditions and new model roll-outs, the model year of the incomplete vehicle chassis is frequently different from the model year of the completed motorhome.

What are some examples of model year differences?

A group of fifty chassis could be built at the end of a calendar year and assigned that year’s model year by the incomplete vehicle manufacturer. A few weeks later, those chassis could be sold to a motorhome manufacturer. The motorhome manufacturer may use half of them to finish production of one motorhome make, assigning those motorhomes the motorhome manufacturer’s current model year on their final MCO’s. These completed motorhomes would have a model year one year greater than the model year of the chassis. The motorhome manufacturer may later use the other half of the chassis in manufacturing a new motorhome design, assigning those motorhomes the next model year. As a result, their final MCO’s would have a model year designation that is two years greater than the chassis model year. In another example, a chassis manufacturer may decide to skip a model year entirely and designate its chassis one year ahead of the then current calendar year. This could result in motorhomes having a model year once year less than the chassis model year.

Who decides what the “official” model year of the vehicle is?

The final stage motorhome manufacturer has authority to designate on the completed vehicle MCO the model year of the completed motorhome. See Federal Trade Commission Staff Opinion (March 5, 2001).

Is it permissible to have different model years for the chassis and completed motorhome?

Yes, it is permissible. The United States Federal Trade Commission (“FTC”) has directly addressed this very issue and determined in a formal staff option that it is NOT an unfair or deceptive trade practice for the completed motorhome and its chassis to have different model years. In recognition of the fact that the final stage manufacturer has the authority to designate the model year for motorhomes, the FTC has stated that the incomplete vehicle chassis manufacturer may use the phrase, “Model Year – Not Applicable” on the MCO’s for the incomplete vehicles it sends to final stage motorhome manufacturers, if it so chooses. See Federal Trade Commission Staff Opinion (March 5, 2001).

Is the motorhome manufacturer required to disclose the difference between the model year of the incomplete vehicle and the model year of the incomplete chassis?

No. However, four states (California, Maryland, Michigan, and Wisconsin) require dealers to inform purchases of multi-stage vehicles of the difference between the model year of the incomplete vehicle chassis and the model year of the final stage motorhome.

What information is used by the state DMV offices to register motorhomes?

When a consumer has a new motorhome registered for the first time, the state DMV will use both the VIN assigned by the incomplete vehicle manufacturer and the model year and make assigned by the final stage motorhome manufacturer for the vehicle registration. All states should title motorhomes using the model year assigned by the final stage motorhome manufacturer.

What should I do if a state DMV registers a new motorhome with the chassis model year?

If a DMV employee insists on using the incomplete chassis model year, please call the Recreation Vehicle Industry Association at 703-620-6003 for assistance. Ask for the Government Affairs Department.

[gazebo]

Another question, anyone feels that the material used in El Monte RV such
as sofa, dinette cushion, cabinet are cheap and low quality ones, compared
with the non-rental RVs

Official One:
https://coachmenrv.com/class-c-motorhomes/leprechaun/260RS/4112#lg=1&slide=3
Used El Monte Rental:

[gazebo]

My local El Monte just listed one 2020 Coachmen Leprechaun 260RS on its website for $58K.
When I searched the model on rvtrader.com I found the same week many RV dealers
across the country start selling the same model (same internal floor plan,
curtain, and dinette). Seems they all bought from El Monte and added
another 5K or 10K to sell again.

Those 2020 Coachmen Leprechaun 260RS mostly has 25K ~27K miles on it.
The picture shown those RV actually manufactured in March 2019.






So I wonder whether El Monte selling 2019 model as 2020 model ?

[eldel]

Our (much delayed) first outing. Glendo state park Wyoming. This was shot on the last afternoon - about 4 hours before the snow started. No - we didn't hang around for that.

[Germax]

We just came back from 9000KM round trip Ontario to BC.

In the beginning of the trip RV stalled as I was coming to a stop at the rest area. This was strange but it never happened again.

The rest of trip was trouble free and a lot of fun.

Over period of three weeks we did more mileage than previous owner in 6 years 🙂
We are absolutely pleased with our 2008 Majestic 23A and are looking forward to future trips.

Thanks for the all advice here. It help us to dare to get on 9000KM shakedown ride 🙂

PS - Go see Rockies in Canada, amazing nature...

Ermin

[fadumpt]

I personally would avoid any rv that has been leaking. You have no idea how much damage the water has caused. Find a dry one and keep up with the maintenance for the cap seals.
The other option is to find out if they will completely repair the damage... But you have to be sure they took care of everything.

Per the "noise, vibration, and harshness" issue. A lot of this is going to be normal. Think of these as uhaul trucks as opposed to passenger vehicles.

[gazebo]

Just want to share my experience of trying to buy used rental from El Monte dallas location.
I found one 2019 Coachman Leprechaun 270QB, 30 feet long, with only 41K miles
on it. Tires looks good with build date as 43th weeks of 2019.
So basically the vehicle is about one year old.
The price is at the lower end of NADA guide.

We just had heavy rains for a few days due to hurricane Laura,
I believe it was a good timing to check RV leaks.

The visiting experience is good.
They don't neogtaiate price and also don't push me,
I just take me time to check it out. Aks any question if I want.
They printed out a few pages of maitenance record of the RV,
it seems every few weeks they spend $250 dollar labor to do roof inspection.

I did not find any leak or watermark in various wall, ceiling, cabinet places.(But I forgot to check the bunker bed above driver seat)
I did a test drive and found it's really noise to drive
a class c with Ford 350 chassis. But from online posts it
seems such a noise is normal.

There are a few costmetic issues, mostly applicances work well
as expected. I put $1000 deposit and asked for the dealer
to get some minor things fixed or ajusted.


On the day to pick up the RV, my kid climbed to the bunker bed
and found the bottom of mattress towards the RV front side is little wet,
then use flashlight we found there are some little water among those
cotton-like insulation material.

We are the first time buyer so kind of freaked out immediately,
and asked the dealer to cancel the order.

After going home and did some research it seems it's very common problem
in those bunker beds, probably because it is built with a few parts stitch
together and seals can get cracks easily due to any driving movements.

I just wonder whether I should take the risk to buy it if
it's really not a big issues.

[eldel]

Thanks Iamichabod. Looks like the prices are about the same. The 100AH batteries are about $900 - $1K each, the 200W panel(s) with installation are about $1K. Add tax and we're in the same ball park.

Not inexpensive - but without some 'interesting' changes to the underside of the rig I can't get 200AH in there without using the LiFePo batteries because of their size. Actually it's marginal that we can get both of them in there as it is.