Chevy Chassis is out of control

[ericsmith32]

Frankly it doesn't seem any different than my grandparents E450 31ft but I'm getting tired of being pulled over! Pulled over outside of Jackson MS because the road suddenly started tossing the RV around and couldn't slow down quick enough (although the step was starting to come down so it was good timing). My wife got pulled over for the same but was the wind in KS. Starting to think it could be our age, grandpa never pulled over except speeding and he's worse than we are!

Planning on this in the following order.. Alignment.. Changing out the rear D Load Range with E's and pumping them up to 80lbs (front are already changed out)... Steering stabilizer up front .. and shocks last.

It does track straight and ride good for the most part but is easily influenced by wind and road conditions. And it does excessively bounce over the dips in the road. Typical RV's that I'm used to but has to be better. Thinking about a rear sway bar to but those are pricey for my budget. Anything I should look into?

[ron_dittmer]

j-d wrote:

ron.dittmer wrote:

If you are like me, you question why inferior parts are installed to begin with. I wonder if it has to do with "load averaging". The chassis may be equipped under the assumption that it is a delivery truck, sometimes running empty, sometimes with a partial load, and rarely loaded to max capacity by weight. But in the case of a motor home, the weight of the house and contents loads the chassis to max capacity "ALL" the time which renders those parts inferior all the time. That is why I feel the NTSB should require chassis manufactures to install heavy duty equipment on every "Made For RV" application chassis.

I find "load averaging" VERY VERY VERY hard to believe. ???WHY??? Because Ford not only offers cutaway chassis, but specifically a Mobile Home Prep Package. You can search the web and find the details, but basically it deletes seats, mirrors and cab carpet. Then in adds deluxe grille/lights, cruise, power windows/locks etc. I think there's even a shortened antenna to sit under the Class C overhang. "Hey Joe! Winnebago just ordered 1000 cutaways with MOHO prep. Wonder what they'll do with those?"

j-d, I don't dispute your point. In fact I agree with it. I am only wondering why Ford (and maybe GM) is not equipping their RV prep package adequately with regards to stabilizer bars and shocks which are the same front bar & shocks used on a regular E250 van....last I checked a number of years ago. They have an RV prep package. They should "Prep" it right for a full-time RVing max load condition. Not for an E250 van. I was imagining Ford's thinking calling it load averaging. Maybe I should have labelled it something else.....how about "Awe Heck It's Good Enough" 🙂

[j-d]

ron.dittmer wrote:

If you are like me, you question why inferior parts are installed to begin with. I wonder if it has to do with "load averaging". The chassis may be equipped under the assumption that it is a delivery truck, sometimes running empty, sometimes with a partial load, and rarely loaded to max capacity by weight. But in the case of a motor home, the weight of the house and contents loads the chassis to max capacity "ALL" the time which renders those parts inferior all the time. That is why I feel the NTSB should require chassis manufactures to install heavy duty equipment on every "Made For RV" application chassis.

I find "load averaging" VERY VERY VERY hard to believe. ???WHY??? Because Ford not only offers cutaway chassis, but specifically a Mobile Home Prep Package. You can search the web and find the details, but basically it deletes seats, mirrors and cab carpet. Then in adds deluxe grille/lights, cruise, power windows/locks etc. I think there's even a shortened antenna to sit under the Class C overhang. "Hey Joe! Winnebago just ordered 1000 cutaways with MOHO prep. Wonder what they'll do with those?"

[ron_dittmer]

ericsmith32 wrote:
Walmart parking lot would be better for that! I know for a fact we make it rock as you describe.

Now with the new shocks on I'm not to certain on that. Haven't tried or even drove it yet

I've found a cheaper source for the rear sway bar but the steering stabilizer will be next. On the list for next month. All upgrades seem to be around 250-300. I'm amazed just how much our cheaper RV is missing. Most class A's have everything I'm adding, even a lot of Class C's!

You will learn that every improvement will help by some amount. Some more than others. In some cases it will depend on how worn out your original parts are. Given you are completely missing a rear stabilizer bar, adding a Heavy Duty Hellwig or Roadmaster, I would think that you will notice the greatest improvement thereafter.

About the Ford chassis, I have said this before and am repeating for the sake of new comers. A 2007 and older E350 motor home will not have a rear stabilizer bar of any kind, unless added by the RV manufacture or a previous owner. The little help the Ford supplied front bar offers, is weak for the load, and it quickly looses effectiveness because the donut bushings at the end of the bar wear "oval" very quickly. The 2007 and older E450 came with a weak rear stabilizer bar and the same poor front bar, both inferior for the "always-loaded" chassis application.

The Ford E350 and E450 made 2008 to current day are improved, but still do not compare to the heavy duty versions. If you own a 2008 or newer Ford chassis and have handling issues, you should consider heavy duty front & rear stabilizer bars.

If you are like me, you question why inferior parts are installed to begin with. I wonder if it has to do with "load averaging". The chassis may be equipped under the assumption that it is a delivery truck, sometimes running empty, sometimes with a partial load, and rarely loaded to max capacity by weight. But in the case of a motor home, the weight of the house and contents loads the chassis to max capacity "ALL" the time which renders those parts inferior all the time. That is why I feel the NTSB should require chassis manufactures to install heavy duty equipment on every "Made For RV" application chassis.

[j-d]

Eric, Bear in mind that our Escapades are VERY entry level. And built before outfits like FR managed to make entry level look pretty (Sunseeker). I heard Jayco dropped Escapade because they didn't want to compete at that price point.

To their credit, Jayco now offers "J-Ride" which represents a couple upgrades. I'm not aware of very many (if any, actually!) Class C's on Ford or GM that are upgraded with things like sway bars or track bars. A few have standard air lifts and maybe a few less got helper springs.

I helped my friend and fellow OP OFDPOS install a Hellwig sway bar on the rear of his Chevy-based C (a Four Winds if I recall correctly) and he says it's been a big help.

You're right about Class A's, at least some of them. Another friend has a 24-ft (that's right - 24!) Class A on Chevy P30. Massive front sway bar. There was an OEM rear bar, too, again depending on fading memory... Still, he had CW install a Roadmaster rear sway bar and somebody's track bar. Rock steady little rig.

[ericsmith32]

Walmart parking lot would be better for that! I know for a fact we make it rock as you describe.

Now with the new shocks on I'm not to certain on that. Haven't tried or even drove it yet

I've found a cheaper source for the rear sway bar but the steering stabilizer will be next. On the list for next month. All upgrades seem to be around 250-300. I'm amazed just how much our cheaper RV is missing. Most class A's have everything I'm adding, even alot of Class C's!

[ron_dittmer]

tenbear wrote:

ericsmith32 wrote:
Mine didn't come with a rear sway bar. Tenbear does yours have one? Perhaps that the major issue handling wise.

I don't know if mine has a rear sway bar. I'm not sure if I could tell if it does. I didn't install one. In any case, there are a couple of inches of snow on the ground and it's raining, so I'm not crawling under it right now to see.

A rear sway bar (also called an anti-sway bar or a stabilizer bar) is easily identifiable.

Look under the vehicle and look for a round bar (usually painted black or is rusty) that resembles the rear silver bar in this picture. For reference, the big thing in the upper left area is the fuel tank on this 2007 E350. If you look close, you can see that the sway bar passes around the differential in the center of the rear axle.


There is a simple test you and your spouse can perform together to "help" determine if your rig would benefit from suspension improvements. Of coarse this is a layman's test. It is best to get a professional opinion, but this should reveal much, especially if your problem is severe.

1) First make sure your rig is parked on a flat surface and not parked so close to a tree, a garage door opening, or other obstacle such that a rocking rig could bump into it.

2) You and your spouse stand inside the rig on the floor, feet spread apart as your floor plan allows, positioned over the rear axle, and face the windshield. Rock yourselves in unison side to side and try your best to get your rig to rock.

3) Repeat the process standing as close to the front axle as possible.

So what happened?

If you both worked together, but could not get your rig to rock, if you two just couldn't make it happen rhythmically, then you are in good shape.

If you were able to get the rig-a-rocking into a good rhythmic pattern, then you surely could benefit from upgraded stabilizer bars and shock absorbers, or it could be that your current stabilizer bars need to be serviced.

On a "good" suspension, what happens is that instead of the rig rocking & leaning side to side, thanks to a good stabilizer bar it moves more vertically instead. Then with good shocks, the vertical movement is difficult to maintain for they cancel out that movement. It feels like the rig is in a vat of molasses.

On a rig that "Needs Help", you will be able to get a rhythmic lean side to side fairly quickly and it may continue shortly after you stop.

There will always be some leaning and vertical motion regardless. The real question here is how much is okay, and how much is not. It is near impossible to describe on a forum. If you can rock the rig side to side fairly well, you could benefit from a heavy duty stabilizer bar for the axle you are testing. If you get vertical rhythmic motion, then your shock absorbers should be looked at.

Have fun with it and get your neighbors talking 🙂

For the record, when we test our rig equipped with front & rear heavy duty stabilizer bars and four Koni-RV shocks, we get the "molasses" feeling.

A You Tube video would be real handy right about now.

[tenbear]

ericsmith32 wrote:
Mine didn't come with a rear sway bar. Tenbear does yours have one? Perhaps that the major issue handling wise.

I don't know if mine has a rear sway bar. I'm not sure if I could tell if it does. I didn't install one. In any case, there are a couple of inches of snow on the ground and it's raining, so I'm not crawling under it right now to see.

[ron_dittmer]

As IAMICHABOD said, your chassis might already be equipped with heavy duty stabilizer bars. It would be a good idea to make sure they are in good order. It would be ideal if you could measure what you have already, but you will need a calipers (or makeshift equivalent) to do it.

Whether made by Hellwig or Roadmaster, the rear heavy duty bar is 1-1/2" thick. The front is 1-3/8" thick. At least they are for the Fords. Both brands (Hellwig & Roadmaster) are made of a particular metal and come with polymer bushings.

[ericsmith32]

The shocks are ordered and get here next week. Probably get the tires next month.

Ron the Hellwig sway bars on Ebay are the same price as other online places. I prefer not to buy from Ebay.

IAMICHABOD.. Haven't measured it yet but visually mine is the same as yours and tenbear's wheel base. Mine didn't come with a rear sway bar. Tenbear does yours have one? Perhaps that the major issue handling wise.

All my tanks start above the axle (25 gallon water tank) and go down the frame. Gas tank then the grey tank. The added 21 gallon is under the back bed. On the side is the black tank and the 12v. and 2 6v's. Most of the storage is in front of the back axle along with propane tanks and generator. Not sure how to change any of the except maybe the batteries. Of course it's all speculative until I can get it on a scale.

[IAMICHABOD]

Sounds like you are on the right path,as you can see most of the info you have received is from Ford owners.

The Bilsteins is a wise choice,but I have to ask. Did your RV come with no rear sway bar? My 2005 Chevy Based Class C has one and it is 1 3/8
inch just like the one you want to buy from Helwig, the front one is also the same size and I have had very little handling problems.

Most times the problem is not so much the chassis but what the RV mfg puts on that chassis,if your wheel base is less than 60% ratio of WB to length and little less favorable at 57%, mine sits at 57%.

That ratio tries to identify good handling, which is in turn based on good weight distribution. So, even though 60% is very good (I think 54% is considered minimum), the real issue is the actual weight distribution. It'll change as you load it up for travel, so where is the Storage, how will you load it, where are Tanks and will they be full/empty. Once it is weighed loaded for travel you will have a better understanding of what has to be done.

[ron_dittmer]

Eric,

Get on Ebay and search "Hellwig Bar", not Helwig Bar. There are numerous listings, not sure which fits your specific chassis. Not sure if they are the best deal either, but it's a good place to start shopping.

[ericsmith32]

Ron I will get something done just trying to balance trips and upgrades. I agree though with as long as I plan on keeping it do it. Tires are going to be first as they're 08's. Then plan on proceeding on the list below. Will at least do the do tires and shocks this year, probably before our Canada trip. All of the parts changes out I can do.. well except for the tires.

Bilstein's 4600- $330
Roadmaster Steering Stabilizer - $290
The rear sway bar Hellwig 7635 looks around 269.12. The only front I can find is around $500! Will keep looking though.

[ron_dittmer]

Class C Motor homes in general will all have some degree of handling issues because the shape, load, and load distribution is "by design" ripe for trouble. The OP Eric Smith is asking for help on if something can be done about it, working with a tight budget. Fortunately the answer is "YES" if he can do the work himself. $750 in parts will do miracles, and it does not require a seasoned mechanic to install them. Doing less will be compromising. Doing more will yield even better results.

We bought our rig in my signature, new in 2007 which is built on a 2007 E350 chassis. It is not a 2005 Chevy 3500 chassis, but I am sure much can be applicable. I did not like the handling so I went to my local truck suspension shop HERE of which they really fixed it right. Nine years (unfortunately only 30,000 miles) later, I have no regrets. I did learn from the work done and soon thereafter, talking to others here that I could have done much of the work myself on my driveway without even jacking up the motor home. Selecting lower priced parts at internet prices, and doing the work myself, could have saved me a lot of money.

Here is what we had done which really did yield great results. It went from a drunken sailer to driving an SUV.
- added a Roadmaster rear heavy duty stabilizer bar (our 2007 E350 had no bar at all)
- replaced the front stabilizer bar with a heavy duty Roadmaster (the OEM was very whimpy)
- added a rear Henderson trac bar
- replaced the four stock shocks with Koni-RV (today I would go with Koni-FSD which were not available in 2007)
- replaced the steering damper with a Safe-T-Plus version
- got a front wheel alignment which required offset bushings to make it right

I also have since compared the 2007 Ford specs of the shocks, the stabilizer bars, and steering damper, between E-series models. The 2007 E350 and E450 had the exact same parts as an E250 van, yet a motor home is so much bigger, so much heavier, and has the weigh horribly distributed, surely evident the parts right from Ford are inadequate for the application.

Because I personally experienced the Before & After of what can be done for a motor home, if I was a law maker, I would be hammering the NTSB to force chassis manufactures to equip their RV-ready chassis with heavy duty parts that fit the application. The price difference would be negligible.

If the OP is going to keep his rig 12 more years as he has indicated, I advise not to mess around. Get it done now to enjoy the remainder of your ownership. The rig might prevent an accident, maybe even save your lives. There is more than just "comfortable driving" to think about.

Eric, My brother had bought a 1998 Starflyte motor home (1998 E350 chassis) about 5 years ago. I convinced him to buy a Helwig heavy duty rear stabilizer bar which cost him ~$150. We installed the bar on my driveway in about 1.5 hours. No special tools required, no drilling either. We did not have to jack up the rig. We are not youngsters either. I tried to get him to buy a front bar given his OEM bar was whimpy with worn bushings (basically ineffective), but he did not want to invest further. So his heavy duty rear stabilizer bar works harder taking more "sway" stress rendering it less effective, yet still made a huge improvement. My brother is happy. I encourage you to consider this.

[jjrbus]

I bought my first used MH before the internet and asked every question I could think of and not one right question. My MH was extremely stressful to drive.

I spent some money on it, but learned it was just a poor design and would never be decent to drive. I sold it within a year.

Before you spend money on improvements do some research. There is much info on the internet about GVWR, Wheelbase ratio and things of that nature. Start with getting weighed.

The gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), or gross vehicle mass (GVM) is the maximum operating weight/mass of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo but excluding that of any trailers.

One of many articles on RV's available on the net. http://hubpages.com/travel/Why-RV-Wheel-Base-Ratio-Is-Important.

[TyroneandGladys]

IMHO
The first thing that should be done is the least expensive and that is the weighing. It is not just the weight but where the weight is at.
If you do not have at least 80% of the front axle rating you will have handling problem no matter how much money you throw at it.