class A safety

[bmwdriver2019]

good morning all
im pretty new to rving and learning as much as i can , im a retired bmw tech with 20 years under my belt . and proud of it, so i know pretty much the auto business
my fiancée and i on my retirement purchased a 2014 winnebgao vista 35f from our camping world , they were totally awesome, the motorhome only had about 6k miles , we purchased it in Jan of 2020, then covid hit
on our first venture out or as my fiancee called it a " shake down " cruise , and it was , up to 50 mph it was smooth sailing ,above 50 , it was like driving in a tornado , back of the speed , smooth as silk, after speaking with many people who have the same exact motorhome as we ,i come to find out that a rear track bar and front steering dampener is needed to correct this issue, and one person stated, i can bet it will fix your problems , for they had the same issue as many other people did , well, we had the items installed and it was smooth up to 65 mph , we would not drive normally faster than 55/60 mph for safetys sake , this is NOT a bmw ,lollol, nor handle like one
my issue is how foes ford and winnebago and others get away with concerns for safety on the f53 chassis as they do , the f53 chassis is a cookie cutter chassis where one size fits all, and from hearing and reading what people do to correct the safety issue of the f53 chassis dilemmas , where people have the white knuckle affect as if they were flying in a plane for the first time , im very curious of how the NHTSA would feel on non corrected safety and handling issues of the class a motorhome ??/ as not being a person who cares for ford in any way , but we bought the motorhome for the winnebago name , defiantly not ford , for i do feel they do as little as possible in pretty much all they do
having many friends who are seasoned rvers and alot more experience than i and some actually been a cdl truck driver in the past actually prefered the gm work horse chassis liked it entirely better for the way it handled, it did not have the safety and handling issues of the f53 chassis does, why this is allowed and nobody questions it as it do ,,,,,,, it affects numerous rv makers chassis , and the basic body doesnt matter who made it , its the chassis improvements that change the handling ,its nothing to the body , i do believe there surely needs to a higher standard than whats there , and since ford right now has a monopoly on class A chassis they are doing as they do with as little as possible which is par for the course with them , i do believe IF GM was manufacturing class A rv chassis , to a degree it would be to a higher standard than what is there now

[bmwdriver2019]

well thank you for your reply BUT i would and will honestly say, its not the driver , before the addition of a rear track bar and front steering dampener, the drive was a white knuckler to say the least , couldnt drive it faster than 50 mph , it was like driving in a wind tunnnel , after the additions of stated parts , on the same highway , same type of day , no crosswinds, we were able to bring it up to 70 mph, and the windtunnel affect was gone and so was the white knuckles , im not a kid , nor is my fiancée , im used to driving high peformance bmws for which i worked at a bmw dealership for 20 years ,
from me speaking to many of the people whom i know, this is pretty much a common issue with the f53 chassis , some of stated here that Winnebago , the builder of our coach should have added the rear track bar , many say heck no, its a common issue on MANY CLASS A MOTORHOMES with the f53 chassis , no matter who made it , i have pointed this out seeking what can be done , not to point fingers, but how some blame winnebago when it affects many class A coaches , nit just winnebgao , to me its a ford issue, doing what they do best, put as little as they can in and let it fly

[Ponderosa]

I'm convinced much of the problem has to do with the driver. When I brought mine home from Florida to Arizona it was white knuckle terror for almost the entire trip. It seemed to lurch from side to side in the lane and require constant correction. As I drove more, even on that trip it got easier. Now, I pretty much one hand it and it's steady. What changed? Me. I learned not to overcorrect on every little movement. It is not a conscious thing, just experience. My advice for those new to the Class A game would be to give it some time before you drop big bucks on chassis mods.

One mod I do recommend - a steering ball, aka suicide knob (no, they are not illegal). It makes maneuvering the beast in tight quarters and right turns and backing so much easier.

[LouLawrence]

Pretty sure BMW has is own agenda and all the suggestions, advice and goodwill is not going to change that. I drive a Prevost so there are NO ride or handling issues. The difference is that Prevost built the whole thing from the ground up!

[zb39]

Doesn't Ford sell the chassis as a incomplete vehicle to winnebago. Then winnebago completes and certifies it as a finished vehicle. I believe that is how cab and chassis trucks are sold.

[dodge_guy]

The problem with the F53 is that it is a universal chassis. The same chassis is made for a 9k lb bread truck or a 26000lb RV. Each manuf should see to it that it handles properly after the RV is built. Some people are OK with it handling poorly and others make sure that it will handle great.

[dougrainer]

bmwdriver2019 wrote:
but , when it comes to safety , and my own, ill nit pick

You seem to think safety. I have NEVER(43 years, hundreds) of driving both Dodge and Ford had an issue with hi way driving that made me think to get home and worry. Just like a BMW, you can install/add all sorts of chassis modifications to make the handling better. A LOT of people do add suspension modifications to Class A Fords. Not so much because they worry about safety, but because they want to improve the handling characteristics. You think your Ford does not handle safely? I wish you could go back to the Class A Dodge M series chassis that were used until Dodge went out of the chassis business in 1979. THOSE did have major handling problems. The OEM's do a pretty good job of trying to distribute the weight. Buying a Motorhome is NOT like buying a highly engineered Automobile. Number 1, you could NEVER afford a Motorhome built with the engineering of a BMW. Are positive your motorhome has never been wrecked or had a bad chassis/suspension wreck?
1. Have you had all 6 tires balanced?
2. Are you positive that the alignment was done correctly?
3. Are you running at the correct PSI in your tires?
4. Have you had your weight correctly done by the companies that do that and then give the 4 corner weights with THEIR recommended PSI in the tires? Doug

[bmwdriver2019]

but , when it comes to safety , and my own, ill nit pick

[Horsedoc]

"maybe some think im nit picking, . . . . "

Quite possibly 😉 😉

[bmwdriver2019]

good morning and thank you for your honest reply back
but , winnebago did not manufacture the chassis , FORD DID , and the issue that occured as in past tense , happens on many f53 chassis coaches , so are they responsible for what ford has not done, ??? i d say NO,
im not talking about alignment , balance , ,its handling of the coach over speeds of 50 mph, before the rear track bar was installed , it was like driving in a tornado, after the rear track bar was installed, smooth as silk, i have heard this from many motorhome owners, this one simple addition corrected a serious issue, nothing else was done to my coach , and it corrected it, this kinda tells me it was lacking it from the get go
maybe motorhome builders should be requesting that ford add it on , at least for safetys sake
in my time, i raced raceboats on the water at speeds aroung 100 mph, driven cars on autobahn in germany and many a bmw at high speeds, but when it comes to safety and handling , there is no substitute for it , period
maybe some think im nit picking, just stating that mabe should is missing , as stated and i will say
for made the chassis, the reat track bar is connected to the chassis , not to the coach , , how come motorhomes have this problem and others dont i dont get it
all i know is what i felt and experienced
have a great and safe travels

[Nv_Guy]

bmwdriver2019 wrote:

Nv Guy wrote:
Blaming Ford is the same as blaming the lumberyard because your house isn't properly built.
As been said, get the rig weighed, and aligned by a competent alignment shop.

i get what your saying BUT ford built the chassis with out adding anything to prevent the issue the f53s are having, how many times i have read that a rear track bar had to be added to correct the issue , and on many coaches , not just mine or a few , ford does as little as possible ,
i stated that im a retired bmw tech not bragging but i do know cars , when a vehicle is fine up to a certain speed and anything over it it becomes a wild stallion, and its not a drive train issue, a vibration and or tire issue, nor an alignment issue , after the addition of the rear track bar, its smooth as silk ,why is that ,,,,,,,, and the coach has low miles,
what i dont get is basically every motorhome has the same configuration size wise , how som coaches dont et it and some get it bad is beyond me
i personally think that the person who owned my motorhome before we did , experienced the issue , and opted to get a 5th wheel , for it was hardly used in the time they had it

Ford has no idea how the weight is going to be distributed. Ford provides two frame rails with suspension and axles designed to hold X number of pounds. Ford builds and sells an incomplete vehicle. Being a BMW tech you must have an idea how critical weight distribution is to handling.
If Winnebago or whoever builds a coach on top of those frame rails with to much or to little front axle weight or poor side to side weight distribution how is that Ford or any chassis manufacturer's responsibility?
In short, Ultimately it is the final builder / assembler's responsibility to ensure the final product is properly balanced.
Why doesn't Ford install a rear track bar? Because the RV world isn't willing to pay for it, because every Class A doesn't need it.
You should be asking why Winnebago didn't install a rear track bar. Why didn't Winnebago make the body more aerodynamically stable, as that is the one factor that will change enough due to speed to make a vehicle "a wild stallion", so perhaps from one speed to another something changes, either air trapped underneath or turbulence and that is what's causing all the instability.

[Rick_Jay]

Doug,

Well said and thanks for the insight into the process. 🙂

~Rick

[dougrainer]

The Ford chassis are aligned when they leave Ford. BUT, that is the NO LOAD alignment. The Motorhome Maker then aligns and WEIGHS EVERY completed Motorhome when it leaves the factory. Then it is driven to the selling dealer. Ideally, (we used to do this, but do not have time and the personnel), the selling dealer drives the Motorhome before accepting from the Transport company. The PROBLEM, is, there can be anywhere from a few hundred miles to a few thousand miles driven by the transport driver. They can hit potholes, ANYTHING, that causes the alignment to go out of spec. YEARS ago, we used to get an honest report from the drivers that stated any handling problems. They stopped, because ANYTHING they state may cause extra costly damage reports that the transport company may have to pay. The NORMAL way a NEW chassis is handled when sold is, ON THE TEST DRIVE, if there is a handling/control issue, Ford in conjunction with the OEM maker will step up and pay to have the Motorhome aligned. THEN, it is on the retail customer, who accepts the Motorhome and test drives and goes home. IF THE MOTORHOME IS USED ON A RETAIL LOT, Then it is up to the customer to test drive and if handling issues are noted, then the dealership pays for the Alignment. IF a dealer refuses to do an alignment, then why buy from him? We have had NEW motorhomes that had to have 2 alignments done(they did a bad alignment) and all 6 tires balanced, to get a happy customer. BUT, the main thing is this, FORD builds millions of Class A chassis, and if handling was a huge engineering issue, there would be major lawsuits. Doug

[oldave]

Didn't you road-test or research it before you bought it?

They sell more upscale motorhomes, and one of those might suit you better.

I'm not a Ford guy either but I don't hate them, and it doesn't go down well for
you to come on here touting your BMW while bad-mouthing Ford.

You're comparing apples & oranges.

[bmwdriver2019]

thank you for your adult reply , it is very much appreciated , i research to learn not trash , i dont plan on getting rid of my motorhome, i question many things and recieved many replies, i questioned the actions of my motorhome and was told , a rear track bar will surely help, at least 95% , and it did, but if i did not question it in the first place, id still be having the issue, when we dont question , and leave things be , we gain nothing

[way2roll]

bmwdriver2019 wrote:
to be honest here as i critically am , why does the issue that many motorhomes experience across the board , no matter who made the coach , i have spoken to people where the alighnment was dead on perfect, nothing worn, missing , mis adjusted , and the one thing that did actually repair the issue was a rear tack bar.and its pretty much the same issue , driving over speeds of 50 mph, the coach drives like your in a tornado and its all over the road , after the addition of a rear track bar, its perfect ,no change was made to alignment settings , tire pressures, tire change , weight Distibution , this is my point, you people are i do believe not hearing me or im not explaining it , im sorry i even made a question and stated i have 20 years bmw experience, i was ase certified in bmw. bme e/v and bmw m performance , not bragging , just stating that im not green nor an idiot as some may believe, or think,

The Ford F53 chassis is used for a myriad of purposes, one which happens to be a motorhome. I would imagine that driving the chassis alone would be just fine provided you don't mind picking bugs out of your teeth. I am sure that other vehicles built on the chassis have their share of handling issues and mods that are required. It's just a chassis and neither Ford nor Chevy can make engineering allowances for every conceivable configuration that manufacturers decide to bolt on them. The motorhome manufacturers don't do their due diligence to ensure it handles properly when the house is built. Heck, most don't even set psi right. A rear track bar as an example is likely compensating for a poor house design or improper load on the chassis. That's on the manufacture of the house, not Ford. Ford has made improvements to handling in the newer chassis, but gassers in general have always driven poorly. That's why they are at the bottom of the food chain in terms of Class A's. You get what you pay for. A diesel pusher handles exponentially better. It's also exponentially more expensive. If you want the handling of a BMW you wouldn't buy a Yugo. All that said, despite poor handling, there aren't a lot of reports of motorhomes just crashing. I mean you can drive them at normal speeds with the expectations of how a 20k lb house would handle going down the road provided it's set up right to accommodate the house load on the chassis. And that's the key point you seem to be missing. I don't think anyone on here is defending Ford. What you have are logical and reasonable responses to why they handle poorly. But the onus can't be on Ford alone since they have no clue what or how manufacturers will bolt on to them. They build the chassis and I am sure the chassis is just fine when it leaves Ford.