Class C and Horse Trailers

[Bobalooie]

We are looking at purchasing a Bigfoot MH29SL. It has a Class IV hitch, but that longer back end on it.

Can it tow a couple of horses with a three-horse trailer?? The hitch is rated 12000lbs and 1200lb hitch weight... but what about that long back end on the motorhome?

[Chum_lee]

"For towing a big trailer behind a motorhome, a super C / "toterhome" is probably the best option. "

Agreed! Not having those 22.5" wheels all around mounted on a true long haul truck chassis, (like a Freightliner for example) IMO, are the weak points. How does changing the rear end (carrier/ring gear size and ratio) increase Fords 16" tire/wheel load capacity?

https://www.ford.com/commercial-trucks/e-series-cutaway/models/

https://www.fcccrv.com/chassis/s2rv/

Bigfoot clearly extended Fords E-450 cutaway chassis 176" wheelbase to 200" on the MH29SL. That will help with the stability but GCWR is the issue here. Most +-30' E-450 Class C's with slides are at or close to max GVWR when they roll out the factory door, . . . . dry.

Chum lee

[carringb]

Bobalooie wrote:
Man, Bigfoot is slooooooooooowwwww to respond to phone calls. So, no answer from them yet.

I "think" the GCWR is 21,000lbs and the GVWR is 14050lbs on this Bigfoot. So, that's close to 7000lbs. The horse trailer is around 6000lbs with horses and tack on board. That sounds to me like it is within spec....

GVWR with the 10.5" ring gear is 20,000 pounds. With the 10.75" or 11.25" ring gear it's 22,000. What year is the chassis?

[Bobalooie]

Man, Bigfoot is slooooooooooowwwww to respond to phone calls. So, no answer from them yet.

I "think" the GCWR is 21,000lbs and the GVWR is 14050lbs on this Bigfoot. So, that's close to 7000lbs. The horse trailer is around 6000lbs with horses and tack on board. That sounds to me like it is within spec....

[Bobalooie]

DrewE wrote:

akrv wrote:
If the motorhome is your on a E450 your 12000 is kilograms not pounds the motorhome is built in Canada. That would mean the hitch would be 5442 lbs and a hitch weight of 544lbs. The numbers fall in line with my E450. Your biggest problem would be overloading the rear tires. I had a two horse side by side with two quarter horses and weight 4500lbs at the scale. I would run with all tanks empty and never more than 3/4 of a tank of gas. And was 300lbs under GAWR. Good luck

I think you converted kilograms to pounds the wrong way around; a kilogram is about 2.2 pounds, so 12,000 kg is around 26,400 pounds, and up in semi truck territory.

Just because a hitch is a class IV and rated for 10,000 pounds (or whatever class it may be) doesn't mean the vehicle can tow that much.

I can get a class III hitch (or, at least, a hitch with a 2" receiver) for my Honda Fit, but that doesn't mean it could tow anywhere near a 5000 pound trailer or support anything like a 500 pound tongue weight. Honda claims it can't tow anything; in practical terms, a utility trailer of maybe 1000 to 1500 pounds or so would work out acceptably well with reasonable care. The advantage of the class III hitch over a class I or II hitch in this case is the ability to attach things like sturdier bike racks.

For towing a big trailer behind a motorhome, a super C / "toterhome" is probably the best option.

Yes, a Super C is probably the right thing for sure... or a shorter RV.

The previous owner says it is a 12,000 lbs. They are available here, for example: https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Trailer_Hitch-pt-Class_IV-pc-12000_lbs_WD_GTW.aspx

[DrewE]

akrv wrote:
If the motorhome is your on a E450 your 12000 is kilograms not pounds the motorhome is built in Canada. That would mean the hitch would be 5442 lbs and a hitch weight of 544lbs. The numbers fall in line with my E450. Your biggest problem would be overloading the rear tires. I had a two horse side by side with two quarter horses and weight 4500lbs at the scale. I would run with all tanks empty and never more than 3/4 of a tank of gas. And was 300lbs under GAWR. Good luck

I think you converted kilograms to pounds the wrong way around; a kilogram is about 2.2 pounds, so 12,000 kg is around 26,400 pounds, and up in semi truck territory.

Just because a hitch is a class IV and rated for 10,000 pounds (or whatever class it may be) doesn't mean the vehicle can tow that much.

I can get a class III hitch (or, at least, a hitch with a 2" receiver) for my Honda Fit, but that doesn't mean it could tow anywhere near a 5000 pound trailer or support anything like a 500 pound tongue weight. Honda claims it can't tow anything; in practical terms, a utility trailer of maybe 1000 to 1500 pounds or so would work out acceptably well with reasonable care. The advantage of the class III hitch over a class I or II hitch in this case is the ability to attach things like sturdier bike racks.

For towing a big trailer behind a motorhome, a super C / "toterhome" is probably the best option.

[Bobalooie]

4x4van wrote:
You say that your hitch is a class IV, but then say it's rated at 12,000 lbs. Those two things don't match. A class IV is rated up to 10,000 while a class V is 12,000. In either case, that's rare for any class C, and would suggest a bit more investigation.
Also keep in mind that the difference between the rig's GVWR and GCWR is 5,950 lbs.

I have seen some Class IV's rated at 12,000lbs, which is why this must have been put on custom by a previous owner. As the previous poster said, this needs more investigation to see if the frame has been beefed up.

Good posts, thanks folks.

[4x4van]

You say that your hitch is a class IV, but then say it's rated at 12,000 lbs. Those two things don't match. A class IV is rated up to 10,000 while a class V is 12,000. In either case, that's rare for any class C, and would suggest a bit more investigation.
Also keep in mind that the difference between the rig's GVWR and GCWR is 5,950 lbs.

[ppine]

The capacity of your hitch has nothing to do with the towing capability of your MH. The overhang provides leverage.

[carringb]

Up until about 2009, nearly all Class C's came with a 3,500 or 5,000 pound hitch receiver, because that's what was available off-the-shelf cheaply at the time.

Ford allows full utilization of the 20,000 (or 22,000 starting around 2007) Gross Combined Weight Rating IF all provisions of QVM Q-18 were followed for both the main frame modifications, and also the rear frame extensions.

The Class 5 receiver on your rig was added by a previous owner (all E-series hitches are essentially compatible), so hopefully they either verified compliance with the document above, or they had their frame reinforced if it wasn't.

Go to any rodeo out west and Class C's with 3 and 4 horse trailers are common.

The biggest issue with that particular Bigfoot coach is the short wheelbase. I think that model only came with a 200" wheelbase. This means the rear axle is already carrying more than it's share of the total rig's weight, leaving little to no additional rear axle carrying capacity for tongue weight, unless the previous owner also upgraded the tires. Some newer Class C's with the same overall length have a 218"-220" wheelbase. These would work much better for towing a heavy trailer.

40' diesel pushers might not be in much better shape, since these will be single-axle. Some of those are already over legal highway axle weights. Also, because the hitch receiver on these mounts to the engine sub-frame, older coaches have surprisingly low trailer tow limits. So, check all the hitch receiver labels before you consider an older one for towing horses.

[Bobalooie]

akrv wrote:
If the motorhome is your on a E450 your 12000 is kilograms not pounds the motorhomeis built in Canada. That would mean the hitch would be 5442 lbs and a hitch weight of 544lbs. The numbers fall in line with my E450. Your biggest problem would be overloading the rear tires. I had a two horse side by side with two quarter horses and weight 4500lbs at the scale. I would run with all tanks empty and never more than 3/4 of a tank of gas. And was 300lbs under GRAW . Good luck

Hi there. It's a Class IV, which is rated to 12,000 lbs. That's why I'm a bit confused. But from a physics standpoint, the tongue weight would seem to be the issue. Which is a bummer, because 29' serves our family better than 24'.

That said, a forty foot diesel pusher shouldnt' be a problem, from what I understand....

[akrv]

If the motorhome is your on a E450 your 12000 is kilograms not pounds the motorhomeis built in Canada. That would mean the hitch would be 5442 lbs and a hitch weight of 544lbs. The numbers fall in line with my E450. Your biggest problem would be overloading the rear tires. I had a two horse side by side with two quarter horses and weight 4500lbs at the scale. I would run with all tanks empty and never more than 3/4 of a tank of gas. And was 300lbs under GRAW . Good luck

[Bobalooie]

Thanks for the info. Perhaps we should be looking at a diesel pusher. Would there be any issues on a 40 footer as well?

[DrewE]

Two horses plus the trailer would probably weigh somewhere in the rough neighborhood of 5000 pounds, or perhaps more. Obviously it depends on the size of the horses, among other things. I'm guessing with two horses in a three horse trailer the tongue weight is going to be relatively on the high side (greater than 10%), and with the leverage from the rear overhang on the motorhome you're quite possibly adding 1000 pounds or so of weight to the rear axle. I suspect it would result in exceeding the rear GAWR, the GVWR, and/or the GCWR, and possibly all three; even if they aren't exceeded, you'd be very very near the limits, and that's probably not what you want for long-distance towing.

Note that some motorhomes have reduced tongue weight limits (compared to the trailer weight limits) due to the frame extensions and their construction. Partly, too, this is because many people use them for towing cars four down or on a dolly, both of which have little to no tongue weight.

(Backing a shortish trailer behind a longish vehicle with a long rear overhang is not exactly the easiest trailer handling job in the world, as well...though I guess a three horse trailer isn't super short.)

[Chum_lee]

Simple answer. No! You'll be way overweight. With that rear overhang, in a 29' Class C E-450 you'll be like a piece of spaghetti going down the road. At least for a little while. Your horses probably won't like it either. I'm thinking more like an F-350 dually.

Chum lee