Class C Hierarchy List?

[HowMuchLonger]

Hello, and pardon me if this has been asked before, but is there a "Hierarchy List" or something equivalent that will show the relative ranking of the different manufacturers' brands/lines? I know this is a lot to ask, but I'm just looking for a way out of this ocean of notes I've taken, lol!

We are shopping for a used Class C, and the differences in quality, construction, and lastly, NADA values are overwhelming! What "looks" to be a good deal, books for 1/2 the asking price, etc. I do realize location, supply and demand, sentimental values (yes, people charge more for a coach they love, trust me), and personal investment, play a big part in the pricing by individuals, but jeez!

Thanks in advance for any help on this! I have searched, just can't find much!

[pnichols]

Here's the top of my list (isn't it at the top of everybody's?) .... the trouble is I don't know if I've posted it in the right forum cuz I don't know if it's a Class C :B :

http://earthroamer.com/xv-lt/

[toedtoes]

It sounds like you know what you want, it's just a matter of finding the right one for you. If that's right, then just be patient and the right one will come along. If you're not sure, let it go. When you find the right one it will be an easy decision.

For me, I waited for that easy decision. It has been great. Because it is exactly what I wanted, I happily take on any work that needs to be done.

[HowMuchLonger]

Awesome information everyone! Thank you so much for all of the guidance. This has been a big change for us, and we are looking forward to resuming camping and fishing, which we both truly love.

Thank you again, and I'm sure I will be bugging you more in the future!

[Bordercollie]

With your husband's health and comfort issues, I would consider renting a small Class C or maybe even a van conversion like Roadtrek to assure yourselves that he will be able to travel in comfort. Most Class C's have stiff rear springs to allow for the weight being carried which means that the ride on rough worn cupped concrete higways can be jolting (wherever you sit inside). All flat sided RV's are subject to swaying as big rig trucks pass or crosswinds knock them around. I suspect that short Class C's may be worse in these effects than longer wheelbase RV's. Most major RV makers offer premium models and lower priced models. Premium models may cost $10K+ more than their lower priced models but will have somewhat higher resale value. With the health problems you mentioned possibly getting worse, you may want to sell in a few years.Take your time studying what is available and their features and don't buy on impulse.
Short rigs normally have less comfortable sleeping accomodations requiring setting up and taking down dinette/beds, jacknife couch/beds or climbing up and down ladders in the middle of the night to the overhead bed. Rear bedrooms and RV queen beds are mostly available in 27 foot bumper to bumper and longer rigs.
You won't notice much difference driving and parking a 27 footer vs a 24 footer.
They all require using your mirrors and careful driving changing lanes on freeways, as well as proper use of transmission and speed control on long curving mountain grades.

[ron_dittmer]

mlts22 makes all very good points.

I reinforce that in general, mechanical problems with the chassis will be easier to handle than structural problems, and with a much more successful outcome. With that said, when shopping around for a used rig, "Low Miles" is not necessarily a good thing. It would depend on how the rig was stored over the years. If it sat outside and rarely moved, that can be very hard on the chassis. But in heated dry storage, the rig stays very well preserved, just like a collector's car. Some of us call those rigs "Cream Puffs". They are hard to find because the garage needs to be unusually tall and deep.

[mlts22]

Ron above nailed it.

Used motorhomes have different issues. The first is how the previous owner cared (or neglected) it. If the rig has sat out for years, the generator's carb is going to be shot, the tires likely will need to be replaced due to rot, the fridge is going to have entire civilizations of mold/mildew growing in it, and so on. A rig can be a top tier model, but if a window was left open and the floor is rotted, it might be worth scrap, if that.

Used can be pretty tough. First water leaks. If there is delam, bad smells, rotted/soft floors, or discolored/warped walls, run. Fixing cabover rot will be more expensive than pulling and replacing a dead V-10 and transmission.

If used is affordable, go with it... but be very careful, and buyer beware... RVs are not used cars, and there is no such thing as lemon laws. In fact, assume all used rigs are lemons until proven otherwise.

[HowMuchLonger]

WOWOWOWOWOW!!! Awesome info! Thank you, thank you! That's more along the lines of what I was searching for. I wasn't sure if there were known and definite lines in the sand between makes, models, and/or manufacturers (wanted to know if I was looking at a Mercedes or a Yugo).

I was searching for the correct term when I used the word Hierarchy, and that obviously wasn't the best term to pick. Again, please forgive me, as it was not meant to offend anyone by any means. :S (Leave it to a new member to piss people off with their first question...)

[Mich_F]

I feel that in looking for a motor home built between 1999 and 2003, the care, or lack of care it has had over the years, is more important than where it ranks on any "hierarchy list" from when the vehicle was new.
As for the Spirit and Winnie, normally they are at the same level. My 2014 Spirit is at the bottom of Itasca's offerings. Perhaps other years it was a higher level. I have a 2001 Itasca Sundancer, which has an almost identical layout to my Spirit(one has a U shaped dinette - the other booth seating) and that is definitely a step up in features and quality from the Spirit.

[ron_dittmer]

Quality of new, not so new, old, older, and real old is very subjective. Some well made motor homes are no longer made. Other in-business companies have taken those positions.

Here is my input in regards to motor home quality. It is all about the construction of the house. If the structure isn't good, it really doesn't matter now nice & accommodating the interior is because that won't matter in due time.

If you are the kind of owner who buys a new rig every 5 years, then this is much less a factor for by the time the house is giving you trouble, you have already traded it in for another new one.

Ron

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New, used, or well used, when shopping for any conventional class-C, the most important consideration is how it is constructed. This post outlines construction methods which are most affordable and methods that cost more, but are built to hold up much better to the elements and the punishment of road motion.

Some motor home manufactures offer different levels of quality through their various model lines. Instead of providing a list of brands to consider, it is best to identify what "Better" is.

When shopping for a motor home, don't get distracted with what I call "Eye Candy" or "Square Footage". You want to pay close attention to how the house is constructed. Water infiltration is the number one killer of motor homes, rotting them away long before anything is worn out. Once water gets inside, it is like termites. By the time you realize there is a problem, a lot of damage has already occurred. Also consider that mold & mildew can grow inside the walls which then you have a health hazard. My advise focuses on identifying a reliably well sealed motor home.

#1 BEST (Very Expensive, Can Be 1.75 to 2 times the cost of Second Best)
NO structural seam work. The brand Coach House is a fine example. It is seamless, made from a mold. The only places where water can leak is cutouts for windows, entry door, roof-top vents & a/c unit, storage compartments & maintenance access, all of which are in areas of very low stress. Because they have a seamless shell, these motor homes have a limited selection of sizes.

#2 SECOND BEST
Common, Affordable, & comes in Many Sizes so this is my main focus
I own an example of this type. My Rig Here manufactured by Phoenix USA.
Made in sections, but assembled in a way that greatly reduces the threat of water. Here are the good things you want to look for.

a) Structural Seams Away From Corners
When a motor home is driven, the house bounces, resonates, shakes, and leans, many thousands of times, representing a series of extended continuous earthquakes. Corner seams see greater stresses than seams located elsewhere. Corner seams are more easily split, especially when the caulk gets brittle with age & exposure to the sun. One extremely bad bump in the road can instantly breach a corner seam. Seams hold up much better when they are brought in from the corners in lower stressed areas.

b) A Seamless Over-The-Van Front Cap
A huge bed above the van’s roof is the most vulnerable area of a motor home. No matter how well they are made, that long frontal over-hang resonates when the RV is driven. It is common for seams to split there, most troublesome with age & exposure to the elements. The small front aerodynamic cap of a B+ design eliminates the overhang which eliminates most of the resonation, along with most seam work.

There are a few conventional “C” Designs (big over-van bed) where that area is seamless. If you absolutely must have that huge bed, then look for a seamless bucket-like design. Born Free offers a seamless bucket design as seen in This Model. Winnebago's View Here is another fine example. Some manufactures as of late offer a partial bucket design with fewer seams located in less-stressed areas. Some manufacture models like the Minnie Winnie applies a compromising partial bucket design, making it a better choice compared to a fully seamed cab-over bed.

If you plan to accommodate more than 2 people, having that large extra cab-over bed will be extremely useful.

c) A Crowned Roof
Rain and snow melt runs off a crowned roof. A flat roof will sag over time, then water puddles around heavy roof-top items like the a/c unit. Water eventually finds it's way inside after gaskets & caulk have degraded from age, sun, and change in seasons.

d) Rolled-Over-The-Edge seamless Fiberglass Roof Sheathing
A single sheet of fiberglass that rolls over the right & left sides of the roof, down the wall a few inches. The fiberglass sheathing holds up better than roofs made of sheet rubber or thin plastic called TPO, which require more attention to keep your RV well protected.

e) A Five Sided Rear Wall Cap
A five sided back wall moves the seams around to the sides to areas of much less stress. Some rear wall sections are constructed with an integrated spare tire compartment and rear storage compartment. Not only are they convenience features, but it offers a solid double-wall for exceptional strength which is more resistant to flexing adjoining seam work.

Potentially Troublesome Construction
Entry level motor homes are made with seams in corners and finished off with trim, including the massive cab-over bed. Their roof is flat and finished with rubber or TPO. They are most affordable, and come in all sizes. HERE is one such example. If considering this construction type, keep in-mind they require more regular care with bi-annual inspections. Plan to use a caulking gun now and then. When buying a used one, consider that you really don't know how well the previous owner maintained it. Buying new or used, that construction method will be counting on you to be a good non-neglectful owner.

There are also rare exception like the Lazy Daze which has seam work in the corners, but the substructure and sealing method is of the highest quality that it holds up like a seamless body. It's excellent sectional construction methods are not commonly found in other brands. I am no expert on this, but I'd give it a #1.5 Almost Like Best

About The Chassis
The most popular is the Ford E-Series with the V10 engine. The Sprinter diesel is a popular alternative to the E350 in the smaller sizes. The GM chassis is not popular, but is a very good choice for the right application. Any of those three brands since 1998 are real good, new or used. If you plan to tow a car or heavy trailer, be aware that the Sprinter is the least powered chassis. People who tow with a Sprinter, take it slower.

If considering a recent “small” class B+/C motor home, here is a comparison between the two main contenders, the Sprinter with the V6 diesel engine and the Ford E350 with the V10 gasoline engine.

Advantages Of The Sprinter With Diesel Engine
- Offers a 35% improvement in fuel economy over the Ford-V10, when both are loaded and driven identically.
- More ergonomic driver compartment with more leg room.
- Comfort continues with a car-like feel & quiet ride.
- A grander view out the windshield
- Made by Mercedes which people are attracted to.

Advantages Of The Ford E350 with V10 Engine
- Given identical motor homes both brand and model, the Ford is around $13,000 MSRP cheaper
- The Ford V10 engine has 50% more horse power and torque
- The Ford E350 chassis handles 1430 pounds more weight.
- The E350 is able to tow a heavier load.
- The E350 rear axle is significantly wider which translates to better stability.
- In most places traveled, gasoline costs less than diesel fuel
- The Sprinter diesel has limited mechanical service shops around North America
- The Sprinter diesel is typically outfitted with a propane generator. Propane is a critical fuel for RV operations, and generally needs to be rationed when dry camping.
- This Next Point Is Debatable But Still Worth Noting....The V6 Sprinter diesel engine is not allowed to idle for extended periods. This limitation is detrimental when you need a/c but there are generator restrictions or you are dangerously low on propane, or you have a mechanical failure with the generator or roof a/c. The Ford V10 can safely idle for hours on end, heating, cooling, and battery charging, all valuable if you have a baby, pets, or health/respiratory issues.

You decide what your priorities are, and pick the appropriate chassis. There are some really sweet motor homes being built exclusively on the Sprinter chassis, such as the Winnebago Via, View and View Profile. Others like Phoenix USA build their model 2350 and 2400 on both the Sprinter and Ford E350. They will even build it on the heaviest duty E450 upon request for a nominal fee. People who request an E450 for a small motor home, tow heavier things like for example, a multi-horse trailer. You can even special order a E350 & E450 4x4.

There is so much cool stuff offered in recent years, and even more anticipated with the upcoming Ford T-Series chassis. The general public hopes it will become available for the RV industry. It is kind-of like a Sprinter in size and fuel economy, but hopeful to be much more affordable and easier to get serviced.

The Chevy 3500/4500 Chassis
I do not understand why this chassis is not more popular. It offers more interior comfort than the Ford, but not as much as the Sprinter. It's power & weight ratings are a little less than their Ford counter-parts making them a great chassis for all but the heaviest of class Cs. They are also a little better on fuel consumption. One thing to keep in-mind, if you are counting inches to store your rig, the Chevy adds an additional 6" to the front bumper compared to the Ford. I learned that researching rigs that could fit in my 25'-0" deep garage. By default, the Ford gave me 6" more to work with. If you examine my motor home in my garage HERE, you will see our Ford E350 is quite tight already. That could be some of the reason why the Chevy offers a little more interior driver/passenger space.

Engine Power Ratings of Ford, Sprinter, & Chevy
Ford - 6.8L-V10, 305hp, 420ft
Sprinter Diesel - 3.0L-V6, 188hp, 325ft
Chevy - 6.0L-V8, 323hp, 373ft

[IAMICHABOD]

Finding one with a rear bed that isn't in the corner in that size and those years is a bit of a chore, I know, I tried that for a long time.

The Winnies and Fleetwood of those eras were the only ones I could find,and I ended up with the EX Rental that I have now because the only ones that fit my needs were all in poor shape. It has served me well and I have not had a problem with it, so that may be another avenue to to look at.

Good Luck in your search.

[HowMuchLonger]

Thank you all for your responses. Maybe a Consumer Report type of thing is what I'm after, as I know personal opinions can vary, even for the same exact coach. Looking back, my question may have been construed as kind of stupid I guess, too broad. I apologize, I should have been more specific.

We have owned our 29' 5er with a 16' slide for 6-7 years now, however, its just too big for where we want to go. We are looking for smaller CGs, less people, more remote, boondocking when we can.

We have had a change of lifestyle over the last year. My husband got an ear infection that damaged his balance centers in both ears, leaving him with hearing loss, balance issues, and no depth perception. Riding in a vehicle causes him to be very motion sick, but its better in the back seat, so we think a MH is our best move. Driving is OUT of the question for him, so now I am the only driver now.

We are looking for a 24-26" Class C with rear queen. Model year 1999-2003? Mostly finding overpriced Itasca Spirits, with an occasional Minnie Winnie thrown in. The Spirit just looks to be on the lower end, and was the reason for my initial question.

[PghBob]

In order for us to help, consider providing us with your family's wants and needs and we can go from there. Example, if you want slide outs, that rules out the Lazy Daze brand often listed among the top tier. Do you want a certain kind of roof? Is your family planning on only going to the nearby lake on weekends or are you planning to travel the country and hit all of the national parks? How many adults/kids are you planning to take on your trips? Finally, if you desire an objective definitive guide ala "Consumer Reports", there is a guide published by an RV Consumer Group, but it costs about $75. Good luck with your search. Bob

[navegator]

You have the King C.

Then comes the Queen C.


Then all the vassal C's.







The King C is the one you want.
The queen C is the one your wife wants.

And al the vassal C' are the ones you can afford.

The one that fits your budget and fits your needs, are you going to only use it to go to the game and tailgate and maybe once a year go camping or are you taking a long trip of several months and the configuration of the unit is important, a good kitchen, a man sized shower and toilet that the paper work can e accomplished with out your arms being smashed on the sides of the cubicle.

Maybe you need a unit that is more for entertaining and has a semi circular table and seat with huge flat screen in front? every one has a certain need in the different models provided, look around visit as many dealers as possible keep a record and then eliminate those that do not meet your need.

navegator

[toedtoes]

The American Clipper is the top of the list. Everything else falls somewhere behind that. :B :S

Seriously, every make has its pros and cons. My American Clipper is a great RV - but it's also 40 years old requiring more work to get things fixed (hard to find replacement parts, etc.). You're going to give up one thing to get another. Just determine what your make and break items are and go with that.