Compact Super C's?

[Bedlam]

We went from towing a toy hauler to hauling a truck camper and towing an enclosed trailer. I am keeping my eyes open for our next tow vehicle in the next couple of years. It will either be a Class 5 truck with our truck camper or a Super C.

We are looking for a short (under 30') motor home that has 4wd and a 10,000 lb tow rating. I can find longer ones that fit the need but would prefer one that could be used as a backup vehicle for non-camping use and is a little more maneuverable. Host makes a Ford F550 based model like we want but there have to be more options for this Class 5 type RV. Ideas? Manufacturers?

[Bedlam]

Right now I'm leaning toward the Class 5 Ram or Ford truck. The current gasoline engines should have enough power but range on a standard tank is limiting. Going to Diesel, Ram currently has the price advantage over a similarly configured Ford. I'm waiting for the next model year specifications and pricing to solidify.

Keep the suggestions coming - Each of us has different expectations of their rig so even if I don't find a Super C for my use, the links provided may help someone else.

Update: I have decided to go with a diesel Class 5 truck. Although I feel the current gasoline engines are powerful, I do not feel comfortable frequenting mountain passes with a GCW over 20K lbs knowing that over the next few years that weight will be over 25K lbs. Because of the complexity and cost of the current diesels, I prefer to keep the vehicle separate from the habitat or garage to keep my options flexible. This choice is also more price conscience than some of my other choices which allows us to camp more often with the money that is not tied up in the rig.

[chinook440]

Give these guys a call.

http://www.xplorermotorhome.com/index.html

[pnichols]

This Dynamax F-Series ordered in a limited-slip rear 4X4 with the 10,000 lb. towing option sure looks like something you might be interested in -> note that it comes in several lengths and floorplans:

http://dynamaxcorp.com/products/IsataFSeries/

P.S. I can identify first hand about getting stuck in a standard Class C. The past January I was riding with a friend close to Quartzsite in his 24 foot 2WD standard-differential E350 Class C when we got stuck in an extremely rocky wash. He got us stuck due to driving it wrong in the soft stuff. (You gotta keep those front wheels in line so you don't plow them, and 2nd gear is best to balance torque from a standard differential so as to keep even distribution of power to each set of duals!)

[Bedlam]

I have considered that (especially when I see the deals available for the smaller ones), but we boon dock too much on public lands. Even at a campground in Needles, CA this spring, we saw a Class C get stuck in a soft sand wash trying to get in to its site. It didn't help that the driver was inexperienced or that the differential was not limited slip, but it is something I want to avoid. I don't plan to wheel my rig on Jeep trails, but there are sites where I have to back up a muddy or loose incline or where the ground is uneven enough that clearance is an issue.

[Mich_F]

Aside from the 4x4 issue, I would think that your cheapest option would be buying a C in the 24' range and having a hitch/ metal fabrication shop custom make a hitch that ties into the main chassis frame, and not the frame rail extensions. That way you can use the 22,000 GCWR of the newer E450s. The motor home itself would be somewhere around 10,000# leaving you way under the GVWR and GCWR. I had that that done to my 24' Coachmen on an E350, for under $300.

[Bedlam]

At this point, I'm leaning toward a 2015 Ram 5500 chassis cab crew cab with 60" CA (cab to axle length) running 6.4 V8 or a 2016 Ford F550 chassis cab super cab 60" CA running the 6.8 V10.

There are rumors that the class 4 and 5 V10 may get the 6-speed that is used in the class 6 and 7 trucks and Ford may go to an aluminum SuperDuty body this next model year - I have not heard of big changes on the Ram side.

The current diesels are too costly to acquire and repair for me to justify the cost over additional efficiency or capacity. Both gasoline engines have sufficient power and gearing to do what I need.

[Explorer1016]

Bedlam wrote:
You will find most companies still post the same GVWR and GCWR, but they restrict the towing to 5000 lbs due the weakness of the extension. I have no idea how much more it costs to have a fully rated extension, but full capacity towing is the exception and not the rule.

Paul, you are on the right track. Even my F-550 Host 300 needs a little modification to truly handle the 10,000# tow rating. My rig came from the manufacturer with a class V hitch and is tagged for 10,000# tow rating and a 1000# tongue capacity. The truck handle the weigh with no problems in braking, highway speeds, hill (mountain) climbing or take off from a stop but there is still a very slight chassis flex when the trailer is connected. However, the truck has performed extremely well on the 4 trips from Eastern Missouri through the Rocky Mountains.

I still need to work on the fuel economy though. Before my last trip, I installed an aFe Cold Air Induction air filter system and I picked up a little more than 1 mpg. I know that doesn't sound like much but when you are only seeing 6 or 7 mpg this made a cost saving difference on my last trip which covered about 2400 miles. I was seeing 7 1/2 to 9 mpg after the kit install. It covered the cost of the filter system in one trip.

Keep us posted with the trucks you are finding out there. I would go back to a truck camper and a class IV or 5 truck but I get in too many off road situations and the larger trucks become an issue with clearances for me.

[Bedlam]

You will find most companies still post the same GVWR and GCWR, but they restrict the towing to 5000 lbs due the weakness of the extension. I have no idea how much more it costs to have a fully rated extension, but full capacity towing is the exception and not the rule.

[carringb]

Ford says the E450 is still capable of towing 10,000 pounds if their frame modification guidelines are followed. If a manurer chooses not to follow the guidelines, then they must post their own reduced GCWR. Most of the newer makes retain the 22,000 GCWR.

[ron_dittmer]

Bedlam wrote:
The E450 4wd conversion is almost $13k from Quigley and I didn't see anything on the Phoenix Cruiser site about 10K lb towing upgrades. The limitation is usually the rear RV extension off the vehicle frame. The more custom I request, the more the price will climb and I would not be surprised if it will be above $150k when done.

You'll never know unless you ask. $100k + $13k doesn't get anywhere near $150k. Maybe they can work a 10,000# hitch into the framework at a negligible cost. PC-USA does all sorts of specialty requests without gouging the customer.

When they can't handle such things themselves like the Quigley for example, they farm it out to specialists. Once the chassis is complete, Phoenix builds a house on top of it.

No disappointments from me if you don't want to make the call to find out. I'm just offering up one other alternative.

[Bedlam]

The E450 4wd conversion is almost $13k from Quigley and I didn't see anything on the Phoenix Cruiser site about 10K lb towing upgrades. The limitation is usually the rear RV extension off the vehicle frame. The more custom I request, the more the price will climb and I would not be surprised if it will be above $150k when done.

The Super C's are competing against truck camper setups for my next upgrade. For those of you less familiar with current truck campers, realize that they can have gensets, solar, satellite and slide options just like a MH or TT - Some even have washer and fireplace options. To give you an idea of what is available in truck campers:





A fully optioned Class 4 or 5 truck and one of the above fully optioned truck campers will be under $150K. If you scale back some of those options, the price is closer $125k.

This is our current floor plan with dual group 29 batteries, 42 gallons fresh water and 60#'s of LPG:



This setup would be about $75k on a new SRW Class 2 or 3 truck.

[ron_dittmer]

Since you are looking for a super compact rig....
Another option to consider is a Phoenix Cruiser model 2350 but special order it on an E450 (over-kill for that motor home), special order a 10,000# hitch, special order the 4x4 Quigley Option install heavy duty front and rear stabilizer bars and a rear trac bar, and you'll have about the same investment as a low end Super C but a 4x4 that is more compact & friendly to drive.

It would need a little research and discussion with Phoenix USA, but they might be able to get you that unique rig you seek, at a price you can afford. They might quote you a wild guess of less than $125k.

[JaxDad]

A friend of mine who does maintenance on remote radio towers built something that sounds similar.

He started with an F550 4X4 cab and chassis and had a company that builds 'expiditer' trucks (the bunk is inside the van body) build him what is basically a 16' sleeper cab / box with an over-cab bed.

There is no connection between the cab and the box, but other than that it's basically a C m/h but with lots of CCC and huge trailer towing capacity. He tows an enclosed cargo trailer with all his gear including a genset.

I don't know what it ended up costing him, but he said it was about half of what a 2WD Super C would have cost. It is a little less 'frilly' and refined than an 'RV' would be, but it was all there and quite functional. He's been living in it and working out of it 8 months a year for a few years now it seems to be holding up just fine.

[Bedlam]

Explorer1016 wrote:
Host is not building any motorized campers at this time. They do not have enough business to sustain a trained staff for the builds. I spoke to the owner 3 weeks ago. I own a 300 and am very happy with it to date. I am just not excited about Ford trucks.

I have had very good luck with a bad luck Ford engine that everyone loves to hate and like my current setup but would rather scale it up. I am not exclusively looking at Ford - Ram has the 4500 and 5500 cab chassis models that would also work. GM currently does not have a Kodiak replacement to compete in this class. I'm afraid that M2's are too spendy for my target cost.

For cost, I'd like to stay under $200K but am also looking at what annual ownership costs will run - Weight tariffs or maintenance cannot cut too much into the fun budget. A fully appointed Class 5 truck set up for hauling a truck camper is under $80K. If I were to upgrade to the largest quad slide TC with every option, that would still keep my acquisition price south of $150K. The advantage of me staying with a truck camper is that vehicle or camper can be upgraded at different times so expenses can be managed easier.