First Time Buyer...Updated 03/06/2006

[JohnnyT]

This post is intended to be helpful to the first time buyer of a motor home. For those of you who don't fall into that category or believe this post is incomplete or off the mark, do us all a favor, and enlighten us. If all you have to offer is criticism with no corresponding constructive comments, no one besides yourself will benefit from the experience. So please improve or expand on this post in a constructive way.

The issue at hand is how to select the coach that best matches your wants and needs and offers the most promise of not being a perpetual headache.

I think there is an order to thinking through selecting a motor home that best maps to your wants, needs, and pocketbook. There are a lot of issues to get at and understand. Going about the process out of sequence will circumvent some critical steps and increases the potential that in the end you will not be as satisfied with what you buy as you could have been. I've heard it said that nothing can be seen until seen in a form that you're looking for. You give yourself the edge by determining your wants and needs first, letting them guide you to the make and model of motor home. Focus on deal making after your prioritized wants and needs have lead you to the type, make and model, and level of fit and finish that best fit your pocketbook.

BUDGET
I believe the first step for most will be to establish a framework relative to cost: decide how much you want to spend, how much you can spend, and how much you are willing to spend. For the most part you can count on spending more that you initially thought. Knowing what the max you can spend is a place to start.

While the initial cost is a lot more than the tip of the iceberg, the cost of ownership and operation bear some thought as well. Gain some insight into annual insurance cost, maintenance, and storage fees. Start making a list of items that will be purchased to support the RV. Don't forget the dingy and associated costs if you're planning on dragging one around, tow bar, braking system, car insurance and registration. Think about chemicals, hoses, adaptors, critical spares, tools, as well as outdoor furniture, grill, mats, and kitchen gadgets, cleaning supplies, hooks, and toilet paper holder! Then add on the operating costs: fuel, camping fees, charges for radio, television, and telephone, etc.

I personally think it's a mistake to go into the process thinking you can always trade in or up. It's a costly strategy. Try to get it right the first time. For many, the choice will boil down to compromising what they want to fit with what they can afford. All the more reason to spend the time and energy to figure out what you want and need and then prioritize your selections to get what you can afford.

Once you have established a framework for purchase budget and ownership cost, use that frame work to construct the best coach that will fit into it. At this point in time you may have a gross idea of size diesel pusher or gas... new versus used. You may even have a specific manufacturer you're interested in. These choices, especially the make and model, ought to flow from your wants and needs.

WANTS AND NEEDS
Go to work figuring out what you want in terms of livability and travel-ability. A good place to start is deciding if you're going to be a parker or a driver. Most motor homes are better suited to one or the other. Coaches with lots of slides are terrific when parked, but coaches with fewer slides may seem roomier when driving down the road with the slides in. Things to think about if you're a driver include how much room there is to move around with the sliders closed, and access to such things as storage areas and facilities like the washer/dryer.

The next and crucial step is to figure out what you think you want for power train, chassis, floor plan, features, amenities, and gadgets. Look at a lot of coaches, even trailers, and see what combinations seem to fit your lifestyle the best. As you get immersed in the process, I think you will find some of your original thoughts will change. The following checklist will give you some things to consider. Keep in mind that the right coach is out there; it just takes hard work to find it.

Will you spend more waking hours driving or parked?
What features need to be accessible while driving?
How many people do you need to sleep?
Is a queen-sized bed appropriate?
How long will you be using the coach at a stretch?
(weekends versus long trips)
How much storage will you require?
How fussy are you about the quality of workmanship in furnishings?
How much counter space do you want in the kitchen?
How often will you use an oven or washer/dryer?
Will a dinette or table and chairs suit you best?
How much privacy do you want for the bathroom?
Does anyone require upgraded seats or bed?
Will you tolerate losing speed on hills?
Are you concerned about miles per gallon or emissions controls?
How far do you want to be able to travel between fuel stops?
How much capacity do you want for water, black, and grey tanks?
Do you require pass-through storage for long items?
Do you want basement doors that open in a specific direction?
(to the side or up like a bus)
How important is soundproofing or insulation?
How important is entertainment, inside or outside?
How many televisions, and where?
Speakers or refrigerator in basement to use when camped?
Can you find the features you want in a used coach?

Livability... Casual Use to Full Timing

RESEARCH
Buying a motor home is easy... the hard part is selecting the one that will best fit your needs. Do a lot of looking and as much research as you can. Take notes about what you like and dislike in each coach you see. Do not accept that what you want is not available. After our first month of looking, we had a floor plan we liked but everything else was wrong. We almost bought that floor plan because we were beginning to think what we wanted was not available or economically attainable. Any fool can buy a motor home; the trick is not to be foolhardy about the process of selecting the one. Some people are smarter than we are; it took us months of intensive research, giving up every week end visiting dealers, hours of reading magazines, exploring all the internet sales sites, and forum surfing. In the end, we looked at 26 different models from 12 different manufacturers, and test drove most of them. We also visited a multitude of factories and found people to discuss ideas and assumptions. One thing to keep in mind, make sure that you adopt your own ideas and make your own priorities for features and functions. Others will have valuable insights, but those insights and perspectives will reflect their own priorities. As you listen, try to understand not only what they think is important, but also why. Get as many variant opinions as you can in arriving at your own conclusions. What's perfect for one can be a horrible mismatch for another.

There is no substitute for spending time in a prospective coach, visualizing daily routines in terms of workability and comfort and convenience... sit in every seating position, open and close everything that will do so, adjust anything that has an adjustment, especially the driver's and passenger's seats. Lie down on the bed, open up any convertible couches and test them for comfort. Walk through meal preparation and maneuvering around in the coach with a full complement of people and pets, both with sliders in and out. Go through the exercise both indoors and outdoors. Open the sliders and the awnings at the same time to check angles and clearances. Think through loading and unloading: is there enough space and is it easily accessible? See how cords and hoses roll in and out.

Do not expect that what you will get is any better than what you see in the showroom. So many times I got that response to an inquiry about a noticeable defect in terms of fit, finish, or operation. As you are deciding on the coach and examining the details of fit and finish, do not limit you looking to the interior. Look hard in all the equipment bays and in the engine compartment. A lot of unnecessary breakdowns are set up when the coach is mated to the chassis, look for hoses and wiring too close to heat source or that will rub, abrade, or get pinched, look for lapses in sealing seams. In other words, fit and finish has two flavors: cosmetic and functional. If what you can see looks slipshod, then what you can not see is not going to be any better.

Choosing Gasoline or Diesel Powered?

SELECTING THE DEALER
It seems that a lot of dissatisfaction that people experience lies at the doorstep of the dealer they choose. In other cases, I think some buyers have unrealistic expectations about how the dealer will react to their concerns and problems. Thorough vetting out of the dealer is of utmost importance. Talk to as many people as you can who have done business with the dealer. Also have some very frank discussions with your perspective dealer, starting with the salesperson, and then a review of your expectations with the salesperson and the sales manager together. Be specific, give examples, and require specific responses. Do not accept "You're in good hands All-State" responses.

TAKING DELIVERY
When you go to pick up your coach from the dealer have a thorough checklist of items to check. Do the inspection systematically. There are several lists already created that you can use as a starter. Here are a few thoughts.

„« Do not schedule your pick up of your new motor home on a Friday or a day before a holiday. That way the pressure to get it done will be lessened and there will be time for corrections to be made. Have extra time built into your schedule. Have a place to stay so there is no need to rush the inspection if you're picking up your coach remotely from where you live.

„« Make sure that all the documentation and manuals are present. Do an inventory and do not forget to get a list of all the serial and model numbers for all the warrantee registration. It's the job of the dealer to provide that.

„« Operate and test everything. Make sure you can do it yourself... and then do it, and have your companion do it. We got the in motion satellite and the home entertainment system; I am still the only one who can operate them...

„« Take notes of what you see that bothers you or questions that come to mind. If you don't get satisfactory answers to your question, just ask them again and again until you're satisfied. You have paid a lot of money for those answers.

„« Question anything you do not understand. Make sure you and spouse do not leave with any unanswered question... Nothing worse than to discover something and then hear the words, "I was wondering about that."


„« Do not assume anything has been checked or is working properly. Check them yourself, especially fluids and tire pressures... which means bring a suitable tire gauge. It would also be useful to have one of those indoor/ outdoor thermometers with a remote sensor to check air conditioner and heat performance, including the dash air.

„« If at all possible, go through the manuals and documentation before you do your acceptance inspection. Just take a couple of hours off in a corner; you will be amazed at the questions that will pop up. It's better to do that before you do your walk through.

„« Use one of the many cookbook PDA lists that are around. The best one I found was at http://www.rversonline.org/ArtFactoryPickup.html There is also a special section on air brakes on the rversonline site.

„« Do a test drive that will approximate how you will drive your motor home.

„« Go into the process expecting to have glitches and some your expectations not to be met. Focus on resolutions instead of recriminations. Don't let someone else's ignorance spoil what should be a very special day!!

OUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE
From my own experience and what insights I have gained from private discussions with a number of first time buyers, the really tough issue is nailing down your wants, needs, and priorities and then overlaying the price one will have to pay. In our case we spent more than we originally set out to spend, but less than I could have. Deciding which manufacturer was not the starting point, it was the place to end...

Here are some of our answers to the questions I posed above:

Will you be a driver or a parker... In our case we are drivers. We tend to drive a lot and never stay in one place for very long while others will pick a destination, go there and plant themselves for a period of time, then return home. We wanted the maximum of space in the coach when the sliders were closed which was a governing factor in determining floor plan and the number of sliders. We also wanted certain key storage areas accessible and wanted access to the washer/dryer with the sliders closed. We wanted to maximize the kitchen counter space and be able to use the seating area and table while underway or for those times we stop in route. So we opted for a dinette which has the advantage being able to convert into a sleeping position (albeit for a short person). We also preferred not to deal with the chairs while underway which have a tendency to want to move around if not securely strapped down.

In terms of the bathroom, we wanted the toilet area separate from the shower and sink. We wanted to be able to separate the bathroom from the bedroom and the living area for those times when there would be others on board besides my wife and me.

We also chose to eliminate the up-front TV for increased visibility and to avoid a source for bumping heads. We wanted it placed elsewhere in the coach and at eye level so we wouldn't crane our necks up to watch.

We needed a floor plan that would comfortably sleep 5.

How far do you want to be able to travel between fuel stops... how much capacity do you want for water, black, and grey tanks... These are good issues to raise on forums; you will get a wide variety of answers. We arbitrarily decided we wanted a 1000 miles for fuel, and 3 to 5 days capacity for water and holding tanks.

It helps to be reasonable and recognize that it's better to start with the minimum you are willing to settle for and then the maximum you're willing to pay for. Be conservative in your estimates.

We wanted to have pass-through storage in the basement as well as sliding drawers, which eliminated some coaches including one that had our favorite floor plan in it. While you're thinking about storage, keep in mind there are different options for the type of doors used on basement storage. Aside from the conventional, there are bus style doors that cantilever up and out of the way, as well as side opening doors. Our coach has all three types.

We put a premium on insulation and the soundproofing of the coach when parked, so we paid attention to the specs and tested the noise level in the coach in terms of isolating the inside from the outside. We were focused on not being disturbed and not disturbing our neighbors. We wanted the coach to be as quiet as possible on the road as well as when parked.

We opted not to buy used, although there are many compelling reason to do so: initial cost and the potential that new coach bugs would be worked out. Part of our criteria was to bypass anything that had not had continual use, since disuse often accelerates the deterioration of such things as seals, hoses, belts and the like. In the end, we concluded we were unlikely to find a match for our wants and needs in a used coach and focused on going the new coach route. Once we decided we wanted a new coach, we soon discovered that it was going to require us to order one to get exactly what we wanted and would fit into our budget.

So we began to reduce the number of potential manufacturers from 12 down to 3 since the others did not offer what we wanted or their level of fit and finish wasn't acceptable to me. Having said that, I believe that with minor exceptions many of the manufacturers we deselected would have worked for us, had their offerings been a match to our wants and needs.

We placed a priority on which manufacturers would give us the most flexibility to make minor alterations to their standard fare; that got the list down to 2. In the end, we chose the one that gave us the most flexibility. Their reputation for warrantee support was also a determining factor, but any of the final three would have given terrific support based on their reputation.

In our case, we did not place a high premium on after sale dealer support. This is not a course I would recommend for every one but our situation was such that we were comfortable in taking on the responsibility of managing our service needs. It did take some work to establish a network of support once we bought. We have been fortunate to have had only one coach related issue, which was very minor. Other problems we have had were with the generator and our satellite system, where we dealt directly with the manufacturers with satisfactory results. We found both the coach manufacturer and the manufacturers of the specific components were very helpful in answering any questions that popped up.

When our coach was being built, I visited the factory to follow progress on the construction, timing the visit so I would be able to inspect what I was expecting in terms of wiring, plumbing, and interior construction. I was able to see our coach and other coaches down the line so I inspected each step of the build process.

This post will raise more questions than it answers which in part was the intent, and the offer up a process to get the answers...

If you interest is in Buying A Used Motorhome Here are Some Thoughts For First Time Buyers

Good luck in your odyssey it's a worthwhile journey.

JohnnyT

[setraveler]

NOTE lookers, we spent last week looking at some used units. BIG DEAL we found was, besides hour on Diesel is important due to nearly mandatory very expensive overhauls. BIG deal is HOW DID systems with water or moisture make it over the winter. Pressurized one water system and it looked like it was a mobile sprinkler systems, water leaked everywhere, was not an issue on the pump, but when pressure built up.. messy. Be very careful of how a unit spent winter as big dollar repairs there. Same applies to ANYTHING that has water or moisture in any manner associate with it, even "condensation" build ups in vacuum engine-brake etc systems and like. Make sure ALL of them OK and run.

[rcouch]

Thanks!!!. We went from class C to Class A in four months. Wish we would have had this at the time. But.....

We are looking for a newer model and kmow a little more of what we need than before. Your post gave me more insight and things to think about a head of time before next purchase.

Thank you so much.

I would also get this printed in magazines and to dealers who would allow customer to use while they decide on what they want. (If you can find any dealers who would)

Rose

[iluvmyelement]

cvbdsl wrote:
First off, great advice on this forum from serious members.

As a first time MH buyer I'm seriously looking at 1999 Nemar Dutchstar DP with around 41000 miles on it- Frieghtliner chassis and Allison transmission as a first choice.

Anybody have any comments on the brand (good or bad). I'm pretty sure that I will get an intial oil/filter change etc just to be sure it's done.

The alternatives in my price range that may come into play are a 99 32Ft Fleetwood Southwind and a 2000 35Ft Fleetwood Bounder, both with the Trition V10

Anthing to watch out for on any of these?

Looking to retire and be on the road as often as possible. Any other tips would be appreciated, for example I'm pretty sure my 2009 Sante Fe can't be towed but if you know different, please let me know.

Thanks

Chris

There's no comparison there - the Newmar is a far superior coach compared to any Fleetwood product. Second - there's no comparison between a diesel pusher and gasser - if you do a good amount of driving you'll want the diesel for sure!

I would take the two Fleetwoods out of consideration and spend a couple hundred dollars for a good RV mechanic to do an inspection on the Newmar before you buy it.

[cvbdsl]

First off, great advice on this forum from serious members.

As a first time MH buyer I'm seriously looking at 1999 Nemar Dutchstar DP with around 41000 miles on it- Frieghtliner chassis and Allison transmission as a first choice.

Anybody have any comments on the brand (good or bad). I'm pretty sure that I will get an intial oil/filter change etc just to be sure it's done.

The alternatives in my price range that may come into play are a 99 32Ft Fleetwood Southwind and a 2000 35Ft Fleetwood Bounder, both with the Trition V10

Anthing to watch out for on any of these?

Looking to retire and be on the road as often as possible. Any other tips would be appreciated, for example I'm pretty sure my 2009 Sante Fe can't be towed but if you know different, please let me know.

Thanks

Chris

[setraveler]

You might want to check what will survive cold weather and what will not, as winter can make a RV not best place to be if systems not ready of designed for it.

[CountryCoachrv]

suitor wrote:
Greetings,
I just bought a 1998 Bounder 30". Made by John Deer, a Ford chassis, 460 C.I. odometer shows 38,000 miles and it does have the 7 th digit.
I paid 9,000 with tax, as the unit is flawless. No fades inside or signs of wear, less the carpet.

I am having all fluids siphoned and replaced, belts, hoses, brakes, ET....
Are there any issues I can address now before driving to Ca.? Anything I am over looking, or I should replace even though it may be working fine now?
I was considering an overdrive gear installed. Unless someone recommends an alternative. or I find it cost prohibitive.
The coach got 6-MPG when I drove it home, about 175 miles. I used 93 octane @$3.13 a gallon.

You will want to check the age of the tires, if they are older than 6 years old, it is time to replace them before a long trip. Even if they don't have a lot of tread wear, older tires are not safe.

Ray

[melvonnar]

Open Road Willie wrote:

suitor wrote:
Greetings,
I just bought a 1998 Bounder 30". Made by John Deer, a Ford chassis, 460 C.I. odometer shows 38,000 miles and it does have the 7 th digit.
I paid 9,000 with tax, as the unit is flawless. No fades inside or signs of wear, less the carpet.

I am having all fluids siphoned and replaced, belts, hoses, brakes, ET....
Are there any issues I can address now before driving to Ca.? Anything I am over looking, or I should replace even though it may be working fine now?
I was considering an overdrive gear installed. Unless someone recommends an alternative. or I find it cost prohibitive.
The coach got 6-MPG when I drove it home, about 175 miles. I used 93 octane @$3.13 a gallon.

Suiter, I owned a 1998 Southwind Storm for 9 years, put 60,000 miles on it and had it in all 48 states. It had the Ford 460 in it. I used synthetic oil and only used 87 octane, and it worked perfectly. I have been told that running a higher octane when not needed adds additional heat to the engine.

And for the first time buyer there are lots of nice 2000 and above motorhomes out there for sale that will not break the bank.

For the 2000 and above motorhomes, you will need $20,000 and above to buy one of these.

[Open_Road_Willi]

suitor wrote:
Greetings,
I just bought a 1998 Bounder 30". Made by John Deer, a Ford chassis, 460 C.I. odometer shows 38,000 miles and it does have the 7 th digit.
I paid 9,000 with tax, as the unit is flawless. No fades inside or signs of wear, less the carpet.

I am having all fluids siphoned and replaced, belts, hoses, brakes, ET....
Are there any issues I can address now before driving to Ca.? Anything I am over looking, or I should replace even though it may be working fine now?
I was considering an overdrive gear installed. Unless someone recommends an alternative. or I find it cost prohibitive.
The coach got 6-MPG when I drove it home, about 175 miles. I used 93 octane @$3.13 a gallon.

Suiter, I owned a 1998 Southwind Storm for 9 years, put 60,000 miles on it and had it in all 48 states. It had the Ford 460 in it. I used synthetic oil and only used 87 octane, and it worked perfectly. I have been told that running a higher octane when not needed adds additional heat to the engine.

And for the first time buyer there are lots of nice 2000 and above motorhomes out there for sale that will not break the bank.

[adk563]

Thank you! This was very helpful to us as first time buyers and first time motor homers, and first time full timers. Our goal is to hit the road full time in about 2 years so we have enough time to choose what is a right fit and get the rest of our ducks in a row.

[AZgl1500]

wickedinns wrote:
To: AZGl1500: We are newbies and are planning on towing. We have a book describing how to use the transmission but do you have advice for us that may be better or a little more helpful???? Sometimes words from the wise is so much more useful....Thanks very much....

Wanda:)

You probably have all you really need to know if you've been doing your due diligence.

IMO, the #1 thing to keep in mind is don't start down the grade at a speed faster than the minimum speed you will be needing to slow to.

For most of my TT/heavy loads I head down hill at 55 mph, or if the advisory sign mentions a lower speed, I slow to that speed and make sure the OD is 'off', and if necessary down shift to 2nd gear. It would be a rare hill to require 1st gear, but if that is what is needed, then I downshift to 1st gear.

My truck has an extremely tight, upgraded torque converter (97%) and even w/o a Jake/Exhaust brake, I experience very effective engine braking and don't often need to do more than just touch the foot brake occasionally.

An exhaust brake would be a nice touch, but not worth the expense for the rare times it would be appreciated.

I just redid my rear brakes and drums. I prepurchased the drums, but when the old ones were pulled off, there was not enough wear to warrant replacing them. I did anyway, #1 son only gets to work on my truck about every two years. So I called it preventive maintenance and went on. The truck has 136,000 miles currently with the OEM rear brakes on it at the time. Everything is shiny new now, front and back.

[suitor]

Greetings,
I just bought a 1998 Bounder 30". Made by John Deer, a Ford chassis, 460 C.I. odometer shows 38,000 miles and it does have the 7 th digit.
I paid 9,000 with tax, as the unit is flawless. No fades inside or signs of wear, less the carpet.

I am having all fluids siphoned and replaced, belts, hoses, brakes, ET....
Are there any issues I can address now before driving to Ca.? Anything I am over looking, or I should replace even though it may be working fine now?
I was considering an overdrive gear installed. Unless someone recommends an alternative. or I find it cost prohibitive.
The coach got 6-MPG when I drove it home, about 175 miles. I used 93 octane @$3.13 a gallon.

[frederick_w]

Hi
Exc. article. I didn't know the difference btw. a class A or C
15 months ago. I priced the maint. services and parts cost.
Also went to dealer shows. I wasn't aware of these forums back
then. I do feel that I got the biggest bang for the buck on my
2000 31 ft. Flair. It's easy to pick a good one if one has deep
pockets. I don't even have pockets.

Time will tell. Fred from Pasco, Wa.

[Southern_Man]

First time buyer here and could use a little advise.

We are looking for something to travel no more than 250 miles at the time to pull either a small horse trailer or enclosed motorcycle trailer.

We will use this at most 10-12 times a year on the road.
When not on a road trip it will be parked under a shelter and used as a spare bedroom when guest come to visit.

The budget is 15k tops and a nice clean older unit is OK since the yearly tax and tag will be less on an older unit.

#1 question, I have been told that the Holiday Rambler is build with Alum skin on a Alum frame and the delamationation problem that is seen on so many fiberglass/plywood walls is not an issue.
What is the opinion here?

#2 Is there a lot of upkeep/breakdow/repair/replace on all the systems that make up the total unit?

Thanks in advance

[wickedinns]

To: AZGl1500: We are newbies and are planning on towing. We have a book describing how to use the transmission but do you have advice for us that may be better or a little more helpful???? Sometimes words from the wise is so much more useful....Thanks very much....

Wanda:)

[AZgl1500]

I also recommend that you hire an independent RV mechanic to go through it well.

Lots of things could go wrong in that number of miles. Especially if it towed all of its' life, and the PO did not know how to use the transmission to ease the load on things.