Heat Pump problems

[djedgar]

We have a Duo-Therm 60515 heat pump (13,500 BTU) that recently went out of commission on our mh and are evaluating our options. We have a 2007 Newmar with dual heat pumps on the roof plus a furnace below. The heat pumps feed into ducts and we have a 5 button Comfort Control Center for the two zones.

The front unit stopped heating or cooling but the fan just runs. I removed the unit cover and noted a definite click around the compressor area. The tube feeding the reversing valve started to get quite warm so assume the compressor is operating. I can disconnect a lead to the reversing valve solenoid and hear definite clicks. From an internet search I read about using a magnet to see if the reversing valve moved internally and did notice that with the use of a magnet I feel attraction to spots that do seem to move back and forth when I connect and disconnect the solenoid. As mentioned, the tube from the compressor to the reversing valve does get pretty warm to hot, but the three tubes leading back to the compressor, inside and outside coils all feel about the same in temperature.

So based on all this my guess is that the reversing valve, while moving internally, is not fully shifting and thus not sealing the ports properly. Does this sound reasonable and can just the reversing valve be replaced. If so is it worth it?

Camping World seems to be having a sale on new Penquin units for the next couple days. The new units appear to be more efficient and a 651816 (15,000 BTU) runs at less amperage and I assume . The new unit comes with a 12 button Climate Control Centerl which I understand to be much nicer but also understand that would not be compatible with our older bedroom zone so would have to keep the 5 button control and fit a downgrade kit to run the new unit with our 5 button control.

If when the other heat pump goes out and we upgrade that, then maybe we can use the supplied 12 button control if the same 4 wire phone plug is used.

[dougrainer]

They do not provide schrader fill valves because of cost and the fact at average $120 per labor hour, it would cost MORE to fix than to replace under warranty. I would charge you about $300 total to solder the hole and add 2 schrader valves(solder- no line tap), evacuate and charge the unit. Way too much for a 6 year old AC unit. Doug

[djedgar]

Rich,
The link you posted is the one I had looked at and saw the 15K rating. Not sure how I got to that page though since I cannot find it from the main menu page.
http://www.dometic.com/enus/Americas/USA/RV-Products/climate/

Maybe it is an old page which has no new links to it any more. Their product line shows Penguin II models now rather than just Penguin.

David
2007 Newmar Ventana 3330

[djedgar]

Thanks Doug regarding the 15K label. I just visited an old Dometic page and found the Penguin described with 11K, 13.5K and 15K units. However the updated Penguin II shows 11K, 13.5K and High Capacity units. So thanks for the clarification.

I took another dozen trips up top the RV to look and test some more. The solenoid coil does work as I pulled it off and it attracted a screwdriver when I connected and disconnected it. I do not have an ammeter that will test beyond 10 amps but I did connect and disconnect one of the compressor leads and got some arcing (nothing serious, just a quick little flash). I could also hear it stop and start up again, so that was working.

But while I was up there I noticed a spot on the compressor that was a little darker in color. Looking more closely I found that some small diameter copper tubing (about an eight inch in diameter) next to the compressor had rubbed through and created a hole in the tubing. So my refrigerant has leaked out and the cause of my problem. After a few calls around it was determined that finding someone to fix the leak and be able to recharge the sealed system as on RV units was like finding hens teeth so back to ordering a new unit. Why do they not provide ports to recharge these system?

Still going with the High Capacity Penguin II but only doing one rather than both units since the other one is (knocking on wood) still working for now. So we will be buying the downgrade board to work with the current 5 button control.

I am still no AC expert by a long shot but I sure learned a few things to this point and appreciate the help here.

[dougrainer]

Rich D. wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

djedgar wrote:
Thank you for the replies. We are now looking at a new unit since newer ones are more efficient and have better output. I am sure the reversing valve coil is OK as it does click when I connect and disconnect a lead wire.

As for the valve default being heat, I get the same temp out of the vents (pretty much ambient temperature) whether I set the control to 80 plus degrees or 65. The reversing valve I suspect even though getting energized, does not fully slide over (but does move some based on the magnet attraction point moving). All three of the copper tubes coming out the top of the reversing valve are equal in temp as far as feeling them goes.

We are also considering replacing both roof units. The bedroom one still works fine but by replacing both, I can run the newer 12 button control and not have to worry about buying a downgrade kit. Would amount to an extra thousand dollars over all but would have better performance and efficiency.

By the way, the sale at Camping World did not work out for us as they packaged it with the distribution box, which we do not need since we have ducts.

The NEW Penguins are NOT 15k units. Dometic no longer have 15k Penguins. They have the 13.5k and what Dometic calls a HC. The HC is NOT 15k, but larger than a 13.5k and slightly less than a 15k. BUT NOT 15K. I doubt you could tell the difference, but just wanted to let you know. The New Penguins come with the 12 button control onboard, so the only extra cost would be the wall 12 button tstat. IF the price is correct, just throw the distribution box kit away. Doug

What is with that BTU rating?

From their website:
11,000, 13,500 or high capacity BTUs

Then in their specifications one paragraph down:
Capacity range of this series (BTUs) 11,000/13,500/15,000

http://www.dometic.com/enus/Americas/USA/RV-Products/climate/ac-display-page/?productdataid=66930

Misprint from years ago. Dometic, does NOT have a true 15k Penguin. They do in the Brisk Air models. Doug

[Rich_D_]

dougrainer wrote:

djedgar wrote:
Thank you for the replies. We are now looking at a new unit since newer ones are more efficient and have better output. I am sure the reversing valve coil is OK as it does click when I connect and disconnect a lead wire.

As for the valve default being heat, I get the same temp out of the vents (pretty much ambient temperature) whether I set the control to 80 plus degrees or 65. The reversing valve I suspect even though getting energized, does not fully slide over (but does move some based on the magnet attraction point moving). All three of the copper tubes coming out the top of the reversing valve are equal in temp as far as feeling them goes.

We are also considering replacing both roof units. The bedroom one still works fine but by replacing both, I can run the newer 12 button control and not have to worry about buying a downgrade kit. Would amount to an extra thousand dollars over all but would have better performance and efficiency.

By the way, the sale at Camping World did not work out for us as they packaged it with the distribution box, which we do not need since we have ducts.

The NEW Penguins are NOT 15k units. Dometic no longer have 15k Penguins. They have the 13.5k and what Dometic calls a HC. The HC is NOT 15k, but larger than a 13.5k and slightly less than a 15k. BUT NOT 15K. I doubt you could tell the difference, but just wanted to let you know. The New Penguins come with the 12 button control onboard, so the only extra cost would be the wall 12 button tstat. IF the price is correct, just throw the distribution box kit away. Doug

What is with that BTU rating?

From their website:
11,000, 13,500 or high capacity BTUs

Then in their specifications one paragraph down:
Capacity range of this series (BTUs) 11,000/13,500/15,000

http://www.dometic.com/enus/Americas/USA/RV-Products/climate/ac-display-page/?productdataid=66930

[dougrainer]

djedgar wrote:
Thank you for the replies. We are now looking at a new unit since newer ones are more efficient and have better output. I am sure the reversing valve coil is OK as it does click when I connect and disconnect a lead wire.

As for the valve default being heat, I get the same temp out of the vents (pretty much ambient temperature) whether I set the control to 80 plus degrees or 65. The reversing valve I suspect even though getting energized, does not fully slide over (but does move some based on the magnet attraction point moving). All three of the copper tubes coming out the top of the reversing valve are equal in temp as far as feeling them goes.

We are also considering replacing both roof units. The bedroom one still works fine but by replacing both, I can run the newer 12 button control and not have to worry about buying a downgrade kit. Would amount to an extra thousand dollars over all but would have better performance and efficiency.

By the way, the sale at Camping World did not work out for us as they packaged it with the distribution box, which we do not need since we have ducts.

The NEW Penguins are NOT 15k units. Dometic no longer have 15k Penguins. They have the 13.5k and what Dometic calls a HC. The HC is NOT 15k, but larger than a 13.5k and slightly less than a 15k. BUT NOT 15K. I doubt you could tell the difference, but just wanted to let you know. The New Penguins come with the 12 button control onboard, so the only extra cost would be the wall 12 button tstat. IF the price is correct, just throw the distribution box kit away. Doug

[farmer_boots]

What your last post suggested is the compressor may not be running. Have you put an amp meter on the compressor to be sure it's running?

[djedgar]

Thank you for the replies. We are now looking at a new unit since newer ones are more efficient and have better output. I am sure the reversing valve coil is OK as it does click when I connect and disconnect a lead wire.

As for the valve default being heat, I get the same temp out of the vents (pretty much ambient temperature) whether I set the control to 80 plus degrees or 65. The reversing valve I suspect even though getting energized, does not fully slide over (but does move some based on the magnet attraction point moving). All three of the copper tubes coming out the top of the reversing valve are equal in temp as far as feeling them goes.

We are also considering replacing both roof units. The bedroom one still works fine but by replacing both, I can run the newer 12 button control and not have to worry about buying a downgrade kit. Would amount to an extra thousand dollars over all but would have better performance and efficiency.

By the way, the sale at Camping World did not work out for us as they packaged it with the distribution box, which we do not need since we have ducts.

[dougrainer]

1. Your year model the default is for HEAT if the reversing valve fails. Newer Dometic they designed them to fault in cool mode if the reversing valve fails.
2. The VALVE itself is probably OK, what you have is the COIL (the 2 wires connected to it) has probably failed. When you order just the coil, Dometic sends 2 as they used 2 different types over the years and you install the one that matches your existing coil. You cannot get the actual valve as a replacement.
3. IF the valve has failed and you run more than 20 to 30 minutes and the outside ambient is over 70 degrees, you will get definite HEAT from the inside vents and after that 30 minutes the overload on the compressor will kick the compressor OFF due to overheating of the compressor. Doug

[Altern]

I believe the reversing valve's normal position is in 'heat' mode. When energized for 'cooling' it will slide to the 'cool' position.

(Normal position could be 'cool' but you may play around with it to verify.

In any event, when calling for 'cool' does the unit cool? If not, then you surely have a defective reversing valve.
Good luck