How do you remove a FWD Toronado drive-train from a MH?

[UltravanOwners]

Hello, my name is Tony. I’m a retired mechanic in need of some advice.
Also, if anyone lives in or near Terre Haute IN and is willing to help – please contact me.

Does anyone have knowledge on how to remove the entire 68-72 FWD Toronado power plant and suspension from a MH?

I am picking up another Ultravan coach (see link below) this summer. It uses the factory 68-72 Toronado FWD power plant, front frame with suspension and all. The Toronado FWD is mounted in the rear of the coach.

I know the large GM coaches used a Toronado FWD. However, they have them mounted up front.

I’ve never removed one, much less seen one up close before.
But I believe one would drop it out from bottom with the frame, suspension and all, at the same time.

My truck is not able to haul the total weight of this coach by itself, much less on a trailer.

Even if I was going to pay to have it transported for me; I’d have to go there anyways to spend a couple of days gathering up all the loose parts in the garage that goes with this coach. Transport drivers will not do that and they do not know what to look for anyways.

Since I will be there; I was also hoping I could save the transportation fees and invest those same funds into servicing the bearings and seals, along with replacing all the tires with LT tires.
Once home I could use the rest of the funds to get more things fixed/replaced on the coach.

That way I'd not only save money, I would also get ahead, by investing it into the restoration of this coach.

Has anyone removed such a power plant before?
I’m use to working alone. I’ve done lots of engine R&Rs in my life. But never one like this.
Will I be able to do this kind of job on my own?
Will I be able to even get the coach high enough in the driveway to drop it out and move it out from under the coach?

NOTE: Once removed; I will remove the engine and transmission combo as one from the frame and put it in the back of my pickup. I will reinstall the frame with the suspension back under the coach so I can tow the coach home.

Do the front bearings on a Toronado FWD use CV joints similar to newer cars to keep the bearings compressed?

If so I will need two outer old/bad joints to mount in the hubs to keep the bearings in place. Should anyone have some - PLEASE let me know.

If you have not already seen an Ultravan, or our Ultravan collection so far to date; here is a link to my thread called: New Member and Some of Our Coaches.

Thanks, Tony

[Daveinet]

I think those are torqued to 400 ft-lbs. When I have had angry lug nuts on a car, I used a T-bar. The trick has been to put a bottle jack under the unsupported end, so all the force is directly rotational. (That and you don't strip the nut with the wrench falling off). I had one car that required a 10 foot pipe and jumping up and down.

[UltravanOwners]

Michael in MN wrote:
Did you do anything to the transmission before towing it? (I.E. disconnect the half shafts)

I removed both sahfts to save the diff and transmission.
Then I took off the outer CVs and put them back in place to keep the rear bearings from coming apart on the trip home.

BTW - I had to get one of those mobile large tire guys to come out with their truck, tools and air. It cost me $105.00, but was well worth it. My breaker bar with a two and a hlaf foot long pipe could not break those 1-1/2" nuts loose.

Tony

[Michael_in_MN]

Did you do anything to the transmission before towing it? (I.E. disconnect the half shafts)

[Daveinet]

That would be a great excuse for a bike trip over to Kalamazoo, wish I could do it, but DW has other plans. I'll be down near Indy Saturday.

[UltravanOwners]

Update:

So far so good..

I'm on a long round about trip that started July 5th and I hope to be back home with our latest Ultravan - UV520 by July 23rd.

It all started with me leaving Prescott, ON (Canada) and dropping off some new Ultravan windshields at a members' house in Hayward, WI then drove down to De Witt, IN and picked up a FC corvair engine. From De Witt, IA I drove to Terre Haute, IN. I spent the next couple of days, July 10 to the morning of July 14th, getting UV520 our latest addition for our Ultravan collection ready to tow back home. BTW - I left the power plant in the coach.

Here is a video of me leaving from the Circle City Corvair Club show and shine on Sunday the 14th in Whiteland, IN. Sadly I made it there, from Terre Haute, with only one hour left for the show and most of the Corvairs had long since left. Boy was it hot that day...
7 14 13 Circle City Corvairs Get Together Vid - YouTube

But the Ultravan UV520 is towing better than I thought it would.

Here is a video of the next day, just after our lunch break, starting the second part of the Caravan to Kalamazoo, MI.
Indy Corvairs Caravan Ta Kalamazoo 7 15 13 - YouTube

I'm now in Kalamazoo, MI at the Corvair Convention and a GMC owner, I believe his name was Bob, Please forgive me if I'm wrong, (I have a poor memory and names are even worse for me) he stopped by to see how things were going. That was very kind and thoughtful of him and it was nice to meet him and talk for a while.

BTW - It has been hot every day so far.

July 20th at the Gilmore Museum, near Kalamazoo, MI, will be an outdoor display of Corvairs and Corvair Ultravans if anyone close by would like to come.

Tony

[UltravanOwners]

Stim, The rear coil springs are on the Corvair and Chevy V8 Ultravans.
The Toronado conversion uses the entire FWD Toronado front frame, suspnesion and all, with the engine and trans.

[Daveinet]

Stim, I did not see the other thread. Does the other thread show pics of a Toro engine, or a OEM Ultravan drivetrain? The reason I ask is because it seems likely if they bothered to use the Toro drivetrain, it would also have the Toro suspension, as the OEM suspension would not be heavy enough to carry the added weight.

[Stim]

Daveinet wrote:
Since the suspension must be left in place, it will be easy enough to crank the torsion springs down, so it will operate in the active area of the suspension. It doesn't change the spring rate, but at least the suspension would not be topped out.

From the pics in the other thread it has coil spring suspension not torsion BARS.

[Jarlaxle]

Wait a minute, this is actually pretty easy: an ordinary flatbed ramp truck can do it. A lo-pro truck deck is only about 3' high, the decks are 8' wide (many newer ones are actually 8'6"), and 22; is no big deal. From what you are saying, Tony, the rig is no heavier than a 4WD fullsize truck. No special equipment needed...winch it up, tie it down, and roll!

Seriously: I'd do this if it were closer!

[Daveinet]

Since the suspension must be left in place, it will be easy enough to crank the torsion springs down, so it will operate in the active area of the suspension. It doesn't change the spring rate, but at least the suspension would not be topped out.

[Stim]

From the article- "Ultra engineers tested several alternative power units. An Oldsmobile Toronado front-wheel drive package was installed in both the front and rear end of the Ultra Van. This led to a front-wheel drive motorhome called the Tiara. Ultra Inc., and the follow-on company BELCO made 42 Tiaras."

This quote from the article states that they built 42 units with the Olds drivetrain. So it was a factory built coach.
That's a lot of MEAT to put in a MH with no frame. ???

I would think with the engine removed it will not tow very well. The unloaded suspension might make it squirrely.

[UltravanOwners]

Golden_HVAC wrote:
You know there is a chance that the prior owner of that Ultra Van installed the toronado engine and transmission in the van.

Thanks for the input.
Me thinks you might have missed one of my replies. ggg

[Golden_HVAC]

You know there is a chance that the prior owner of that Ultra Van installed the toronado engine and transmission in the van.

[UltravanOwners]

Fred, I apology; I was watching TV with the MRS and running back and forth to try and keep up with the post. I did not answer your questions that well.

I'll reply in BOLD print righ after your post.

Golden_HVAC wrote:
Hi,

So your truck will not haul this motorhome. How about a dually F-350 U-Haul? They also rent F-650's.
I'm driving from Canada to Terre Haute, IN. From Terre Haute, In to Heyward, WI and from there to Kalamazoo, MI and then back to Ottawa Canada. I will already have the truck with me. So renting another truck is out. Plus I rather save as much funds as I can and use them on getting the ocach fixed up and back on the road again.

If you will have it transported, there is no reason you have to show up on the same day as the tranporter trailer. My suggestion is a tractor trailer with a flatbed, the kind used to move around large equipment.


How far do you need to move it?
845 miles from Terre Haute, IN to the farm in Canada.

You might also want to check with a couple of equipment rental companies, tell them what you want transported, and see if they might be able to bring it back when taking something out for a rental, sort of a paid return trip. If you are flexible about the time before moving the van, this can be a option.
I have used the same outfit to transport four coaches so far.
They are the only ones who can also drive in Canada and they happend to have the best rates too. They use a 48 foot long flatbed truck to transport them. I pay extra to have a rollback truck lift the coaches up so they can be rolled onto the flatbed. Then I pay another rollback to take them off once they arrivve. The quote to just transport UV520 from Terre Haute, IN to the farm in Canada was $2,000. Ultravans are 8 feet wide, 8 feet tall and 22 feet long.

If the van is really only 4,000 pounds, some car moving companies that put 3 cars on a long trailer pulled by a F-350 might be able to put that van on one of their trailers, and move it for a reasonable fee.
Becasue the outside edge of front tires are 7.5 feet apart the trailer has to be 8 feet wide.


Check with car engine rebuilders. When my engine died, the engine rebuilder sent out a truck and trailer to pick up not only my car but a few on the same day.

Also junk yards might have a transporter, while not as highly insured and not as responcable for dents, they might be able to provide a better price to move the van.
Too far of a haul for someone like this.

Good luck!

Fred.