HOW IS YOUR CRYSTAL BALL?

[NMace]

In reading about the multifuel generator on another thread, got me thinking about a propane or cng Class C.

Just seems a good fit.

My dad had a couple propane over the road trucks in the 50's - 60's, and I had a converted pickup in the md-70's gas shortage. Refueling took some preplanning and we had one blow up in a Springfield., MO carwash. And you lost 15 - 20% power.

I know propane cost is way up these days, but should go back down.

The real questioon is when will compressed natural gas be readily available, if ever.

The attraction to me is a single fuel source for everthing.

What do yoou see in the future?

[time2roll]

I would stick with gas/diesel over CNG at this point. Try to skip the generator if you can. Plug in if you need air 24/7 otherwise solar and inverter will handle the rest.

Budget Tesla is the Toyota RAV4-EV. Although mostly limited to CA 😞
VIA Motors will set you up with an electric truck with gasoline range extender but you are back up into the $80,000+ zone.

[mlts22]

Electric is nice, but it brings around its own problems, due to battery capacities that are nowhere near the energy density of gasoline. One either pays for very top-tier battery technology like what a Tesla has, or one gets a vehicle with a limited range.

Until battery densities get to where they can completely replace an IC engine, the most economical vehicles are probably diesels. I find it interesting how a Chevy Cruze diesel gets better MPG than a Prius, and is cheaper to boot. However, MPG isn't a new concept... A CRX can get 48 MPG, and that is without hypermiling (pulse and glide, tailgating semis, and other clownish antics.)

[NMace]

free radical wrote:
Future is electric,..see Tesla motors

and hybrid electric,

http://youtu.be/8rKsk6hEcNQ

Perhaprs, but the purchase price is going to have to come down by 50% without taxpayer subsidy before I am interested. I am not eager to pay $75,000+ for a car.

[free_radical]

Future is electric,..see Tesla motors

and hybrid electric,

http://youtu.be/8rKsk6hEcNQ

[Explorer1016]

No problem and I understand. I work for local iron dealer with similar paint scheme

[RvBill3]

Can't really confirm that because I don't want to get my son in trouble. The company in question does paint their equipment yellow.

[Explorer1016]

RvBill3 wrote:

mlts22 wrote:

it is only a matter of time before someone designs a diesel engine that can burn not just oil, but gasoline, natural gas, and propane.

A major large equipment manufacturer is developing an engine for their big off road vehicles that can use natural gas and diesel and changeover at the flip of a switch. My son is an engineer on the project.

You must be referring to Caterpillar

[RvBill3]

mlts22 wrote:

it is only a matter of time before someone designs a diesel engine that can burn not just oil, but gasoline, natural gas, and propane.

A major large equipment manufacturer is developing an engine for their big off road vehicles that can use natural gas and diesel and changeover at the flip of a switch. My son is an engineer on the project.

[tomkaren13]

No propane here, seems like there is always a shortage and the price goes up,up,up!

[DaHose]

That is another good point, mlts. We have lots of alternatives with existing ICE technology. I recall once hearing about a turkey farm that turns their scraps into fuel.

Hell, if we would get off our butts we could burn hydrogen. The exhaust fumes from that are just water and oil vapor and you can actually catch the oil vapor.

Jose

[mlts22]

I see gasoline engines eventually dying out. One can make a lot more diesel-like fuels from various oils found around the planet than ones with the vaporization properties of gasoline. Plus, we have tons of waste veggie oil, waste motor oil, and many other things which can be used with a diesel engine. Heck, if energy gets cheap, we can use thermal depolymerization to create more diesel oil from landfills.

[DaHose]

I see diesel as the future. Diesel engines can literally burn vegetable oil as a fuel and are PERFECT for propane conversions in the interim.

Regular gasoline engines have too low a compression to efficiently use propane. They would need to add turbo's or up the compression to better than 12:1 to work really well on propane. On the up side, propane makes for a ridiculously simple engine management strategy. Propane mixes on a demand basis and is gaseous, so you don't need fuel pumps or injection programming. Just a mixer plate and an ignition curve set by a 36-1 wheel and MAP sensor.

I say we need to convert existing car engines to propane/ turbo and really develop diesel engines to their fullest potential. You could then build small/efficient diesel generators into a car and run everything off motors direct fed by the generator. You could even have dual generators with the second being very small capacity to act as a failsafe.

Jose

[mlts22]

The long-term future is fusion... but it requires money to be tossed at it before there are breakthroughs for sustained yield on a level that can be used for 24/7 energy protection.

Mid-term future is nuclear fission, namely thorium reactors. However, the word "nuclear" causes untold panic that people would rather tell their sons stories about those levers on the wall that show "on" and "off" than move to an energy source that can handle future growth.

Near-term, solar and wind are nice... but with the politics as they are, we will still be using gas, oil, and coal for a while still.

As for engine design, since we have common rail fuel injection and very precise metering, it is only a matter of time before someone designs a diesel engine that can burn not just oil, but gasoline, natural gas, and propane.

We also have had turbine engines going on a century now. Turbine engines can run on gasoline, methanol, ethanol, natural gas, propane, diesel fuel, or whatever you can throw at it. This probably is the future of engine design because it can handle virtually anything thrown at it, and who knows what fuel will be cheap and useful in the future. We might end up with a government push back to ethanol, or maybe even wood gas.

[maillemaker]

The only reason we are seeing a resurgence in natural gas is because energy costs have risen so much that it is now cost effective to harness it, as well as other previously-too-expensive petroleum-based energy sources.

Eventually it will become so expensive to extract further petroleum that other sources will be cost comparable. The future is electric. It will likely be generated by solar, wind, and nuclear power.