How many of us are there? Owners of Dodge based RV's?

[whiteknight001]

I'm new here, and curious.

How many of us in Class C own Dodge B300 incomplete
cab/chassis based RV's? I know two others- Steve aka
Ripsaw, with a 1977 Brougham, and Leroy aka 1978_Dodge
_Delta who owns a 440V8 powered sharp looking 1978
Delta RV. I would like to ask, and offer, help, idea
swapping and comparing notes on our particular RV's
which are based on the Dodge B300 van chassis.

Yeah, I know. These are low tech, podgy old RV's that
would be considered "entry level" for folks like me,
but I have a deep and abiding respect for the quality
of these old "monsters of the open road". And anyone
wanting to pick brains, joke about, share notes or just
brag about our old A- Dodge-io's are certainly welcome
to PM or email me. Between all of us we can form a real
good support group, and help each other with problems
we know we'll encounter with an older vehicle.

Sure. I'd love a new RV. But I'd rather have an older
one already paid for, and a lotta great memories. Call
me frugal, an old hippie, or whatever you will. I'm proud
of my old land yacht.

Mopar Madness Manifest in the flesh,

Mark aka White Knight

P.S. Mine's a '72. Is there an older one out there someone's
motorvating in? Maybe even a Travco? W/K

[Leeann]

Holy cow!

I'm glad she's pulling through, but that had to be seriously scary.


I'm stuck inside for two weeks. Three deer ticks on me from one day, two of them gave me a bullseye. So I'm on doxycycline and banned from sun exposure (I'm already pale).

[Wolf_n_Kat]

Hey guys, haven't had a chance to check in, been a little 'busy', if you know what I mean. A couple of years ago Kat had an episode with Valley Fever that left a quarter-sized hole in the upper lobe of her left lung. The Dr's said it would be nothing to worry about, would probably collapse in on itself.

Well, Tuesday it did, in a big way. When I woke up, she said to call 911, she thought she was having a heart attack.

Long story short (I know, too late, right??), that quarter-sized hole ended up being the size of a small grapefruit. This morning the Dr's did a lobotomy... No, lobectomy! Geez, I hope they didn't get it confused too! Anyway, they did a lobectomy and a thora-somethingorother. She pulled through okay, but I've been chalking up lots of miles on the Explorer (and my butt!) running between Doyle and Reno.

Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll trace the other side of the relay when I get a chance but right now, the Dodge is a low-priority item.

[Griff_in_Fairba]

Some quick notes before I go outside to do things I'm supposed to be doing ...

I've said before that I consider ammeters irrelevant in vehicles produced since the early 60's. They were relevant for motors with generators and early low-amperage alternators. In those cases, the ammeters typically had a scale ranging from -30 to +30 amps, which were able show relatively small changes in generator/alternator output and battery drain.

However, with newer high-output alternators, the scale needed to be significantly expanded, to a range as great as -120 to +120. The same small output/drain that caused visible needle movement in early ammeters causes barely perceptible needle movement in newer ammeters. In these cases, an old-skool "idiot" light is actually more useful for indicating system problems.

(The 65 amp alternator that were OEM equipment in our older Dodge motorhomes are actually considered quite small by today's standards.)

Equally important, ammeters are a royal pain it the *** to wire up, regardless of size.

So, I recommend disconnecting ammeters. You can even remove them and save them to show to your great-grandchildren when you launch into way-back-when stories.

Instead, use a voltmeter to monitor the operation of your vehicle's electrical system. Most motor vehicle voltmeters have a scale ranging 8 to 18 volts, which is a granularity that makes it easy to recognize significant changes in the electrical system's operation.

(In recent years, manufacturers have started shifting from ammeters to voltmeters for OEM equipment.)

Next, voltmeters and battery condition gauges appear to be similar but are actually significant different in function and purpose.

Voltmeters are used for the same purpose as ammeters, to display the operation of a vehicle's electrical system. While they can display how much a battery is being drained, their main purpose is to indicate problems in the electrical system. A steady decrease in system voltage indicates the alternator is not producing current. Conversely, an unusually high system voltage indicates the alternator is producing too much current, potentially overcharging and cooking the battery as well as possibly frying system components.

(Detecting an overrunning alternator is difficult with an ammeter.)

Voltage regulators essentially do the same thing as voltmeters ... measuring and monitoring system voltage. Instead of displaying system voltage, voltage regulators control the alternator based on system voltage. When system voltage drops to a certain point, the voltage regulator turns on (energizes) the alternator field, causing the alternator to begin producing current. In turn, when the voltage rises to a certain point, the regulator turns off the field, causing the alternator to stop producing current.

On the other hand, battery condition gauges monitor how much a battery is being used, typically by displaying the percentage of charge remaining in the battery. (Battery condition gauges are sometimes called battery condition indicators, abbreviated as BCI.)

Unlike voltmeters, which are intended to be actively connected to the electrical system on a continuous basis, battery condition gauges are intended to be used briefly on a periodic basis, for no more than a minute at a time. The circuit for a battery condition gauge should include a momentary on-off switch because leaving the gauge continuously connected causes unnecessary battery drain.

These gauges cannot accurately display the battery's condition when the battery is being recharged, either via an alternator or battery charger. Most battery condition gauges have section of their scale that indicates the battery is being recharged/charging.

Note: To get an accurate reading of a battery's charge, a load (such as an incandescent light) should be applied, at least briefly, before pressing the gauge's momentary switch. This shifts the battery from a resting state to an active state.

So, voltmeters are appropriate for connection to an engine's electrical system while battery condition gauges are better suited to monitoring a motorhome's deep cycle ("house") battery bank.

Finally, based on my experience, the 65 amp OEM alternators in older Dodge motorhomes rarely fail. Their bearings and brushes may wear out over lengthy periods (decades?) of use but, unlike many other alternators, the diodes (in the bridge rectifier) are robust enough to still be serviceable when the bearings/brushes wear out.

Unfortunately, people tend to think about the alternator when their charging system fails. Usually, in older Mopar vehicles, it's the voltage regulator that causes the charging system problems rather than the alternator. Over the years, I've seen many, many cases were people have spent a lot of money to replace the alternator, to only find out it didn't solve their problem.

Replacement voltage regulators are relatively inexpensive while replacing an alternator usually causes a serious dent in one's budget. I've personally experienced a lazy/incompetent technician telling me the alternator was bad and had to replaced when the problem was actually a bad voltage regulator. Furthermore, I firmly believe some shops rely on people's lack of understanding to pad their profit margin by unnecessarily replacing a more expensive alternator instead of just replacing a comparatively inexpensive voltage regulator. (In addition to the cost of the components, alternators require more labor to replace than voltage regulators, further padding their profit margin.)

Enough ... got to get back to working on other things.

[Leeann]

I can watch my 440 running from the driver's seat. Prop up the cover and look down to the right.

Much more comfortable 😉

[Griff_in_Fairba]

At this point, I was tempted to continue along the same vein, discussing what you need to know, in terms of tools, supplies, and techniques, to work on motor vehicle electrical systems.

However, I realized it's equally important to understand the what as well as the how. So, I decided I should do things in parallel, bouncing back and forth between the what and the how.

Many people, when they set out to understand a complex system, start with the details and work upward and outward towards a complete picture. I know, from observation, that this approach works for some people. However, I've also seen evidence this can cause difficulties and create confusion and misconceptions.

On the other hand, some people prefer to start with the big picture, working downward and inward towards the details. I lean towards this approach, while understanding this approach can also cause problems similar to the previous approach.

In the computer software industry, the first approach is called bottom-up analysis and design and the second called top-down analysis and design. Decades ago, there were a lot of academic arguments regarding these two approaches, with most arguments boiling down to "my way is better than your way because ..."

I am definitely a top-down person so we're going to start with the big picture, breaking up a motorhome's total electrical system into cohesive parts (i.e., subsystems). We will then examine each subsystem, breaking up each subsystem into cohesive sub-subsystems. We'll continue this iterative process until we reach an understanding of individual circuits and components and exactly how they fit into the whole picture.

So, to start, the majority of all recreational vehicles (that includes motorhomes) have two electrical systems that are effectively completely separate. These are the 120/240VAC system and the 12VDC system.

(VAC = volts alternating current and VDC = volts direct current)

While the two systems are effectively separate, there are a few specific points where they are interconnected. One of these is battery chargers, which convert 120VAC into 12VDC suitable for recharging and maintaining batteries. Another is transformers and bridge rectifiers that convert 120VAC into 12VDC suitable for providing power to 12VDC lights and devices while connected to "shore" power.

("Shore" power is a term taken from boat people and describes being plugged into the same electrical grid -- on shore -- that provides electricity to homes and businesses.)

While battery chargers and transformers/rectifiers appear to be similar, they are functionally completely separate beasts and one cannot be substituted for the other without creating significant problems. (This substitution is the root of many of the problems found in older motorhomes.)

The third, and final, interconnection between the 120/240VAC and 12VDC systems is inverters, which convert 12VDC into 120VAC for household appliances and devices. The problem with inverters is, in order to produce 1 amp of !20VAC current, they have to draw 10 amps of 12VDC current from the battery. So, a deep cycle battery rated for 75 amp/hours (75 Ah C20 capacity) means it will last about 7-1/2 hours before being completely discharged when hooked to an inverter producing 1 amp of 120VAC. (This is a gross simplification for the purpose of avoiding a complex technical discussion.)

You should only connect inverters to deep cycle batteries or running vehicles with high output, fully functioning alternators. Connecting an inverter to an SLI (starter) battery is a quick way to severely shorten the life of that battery.

(SLI = starter/lights/ignition ... in other words, the standard motor vehicle battery versus a deep cycle battery.)

For now, we're going to ignore the motorhome's 120/240VAC system, primarily because it is essentially identical to a house's electrical system. Instead, we'll focus on the vehicle's 12VDC system.

In my next post, we'll start breaking down 12VDC systems into cohesive subsystems.

Oh, by the way ... 12VDC is a widely accepted but somewhat misleading term for motor vehicle electrical systems. 12VDC is nominal, with the actual voltage being roughly 14.5VDC.

[Griff_in_Fairba]

Ballenxj wrote:

Griff in Fairbanks wrote:

On the other hand, I still have the needle-nose pliers and continue to use them, as recently as yesterday. (Those needle-nose pliers are still my favorite ... I haven't found any others that serve as well for general all-around use.)

Griff, if you ever get the chance, try a set of needle nose pliers made by a company that bears the name Wiha. These are carried by Boker distributors, as in Boker Knives. Made in Germany, and fine precision tools. No, I don't work for them. I recently found their tools in an electronics supply store too.

Thank you for the suggestion. I've already checked out their website.

I already have several needle-nose pliers, in various sizes and from multiple companies. However, just like carpenters have favorite hammers and chefs have favorite knives, I really like my old needle-nose pliers.

On the other hand, I plan to buy a better crimper for crimp-on wire terminals/connectors so I'll definitely consider Wiha.

Where a tool is made is not necessarily an indication of quality. Fifty years ago, Taiwan had a reputation for shoddy, substandard products. Since then, some of their companies have made significant improvements, to the point where some of their tools are equal to or better than tools made in the U.S.

On the other hand, Germany has long enjoyed a reputation for precision engineering and manufacturing, which included tools. (During the Cold War, West Germany maintained that reputation while East Germany slid backwards.) However, there is one major German company whose products I flat refuse to buy, due to a completely dismal experience with one of their tools and their customer service.

Finally, "Made in USA" isn't, and never has been, a completely reliable indicator of quality. Some U.S. companies once had a stellar reputation but have fallen drastically in terms of quality, mostly due to mismanagement. Likewise, some companies that were bottom tier have managed to improve to the point where their products are now top-of-the-line.

The bottom line is: Buyer beware. Read reviews, be open minded, examine similar tools from multiple manufacturers, and follow your instincts.

I should also note I sometimes buy less-than-the-best tools, especially when I know I'll only be using them a few time and can't borrow or rent them. In those cases, I view them as low-cost "disposable" tools needed to complete a task.

[Griff_in_Fairba]

Some notes:

My wife has almost never questioned my tool purchases and has actually often said, "Go buy the ****** thing," when I was hemming-and-hawing about whether to buy it. She did question some of my purchases early on in our 40+ years of marriage but soon learned what she got in return was worth more than what I'd spent.

When I rewired my '49 Int'l Metro bumper-to-bumper, I relied exclusively on three tools: a sharp pocketknife, a flat-blade screwdriver, and lineman's pliers. I used the pocketknife to strip wires and cut electrical tape and the lineman's pliers to cut wires and crimp connectors. I have since added special purpose tools for some of the tasks but still rely heavily on those three.

I emphasize sharp because sharp cutting tools do a better job, with more ease, and much, much greater safety. I have to warn people to be very careful around my knives, hatchets, axes, chisels, and so forth because I keep them razor sharp. (People know when I've been sharpening tools, especially knives and chisels, because I'm missing significant portions of the hair on my arms.)

[Griff_in_Fairba]

Axiom 6: Consider used tools, from craiglist, garage sales, and so forth.

There's a number of reasons people are selling serviceable tools. They may be going out of business, they may be experiencing a financial crisis, they bought a tool for a one-time task (Axiom #5), or they've discovered they've violated Axiom #1 and bought a tool they're obviously never going to use. (All of which explains why you sometimes find new tools for sale through these sources.)

[Griff_in_Fairba]

Okay, we've gotten a bit off-topic so let's go back to things related to recreational vehicles ...

Axiom #5: Consider how often you'll need to use the tool when deciding how much to spend.

If you're only going to use the tool a few time or, especially one time, rent it, borrow it, or pay someone who the tool to do the job for you.

I actually cringe when I say, "borrow it," considering how often people have failed to return tools they've borrowed. Even when I do agree to loan someone a tool, I make them understand (before or after the fact) that I'll never loan them a tool again if they fail to return it or take too long to return it. (It's the "kiss of death" if I have to go get the tool back because I need to use it.)

As a general rule, I require a 150 percent cash deposit before I'll loan out a tool. (The extra 50 percent is to compensate me for having to go get a replacement.) In one case, an individual was pestering me to borrow my outboard jet boat. After repeatedly telling him "no," I finally said, "Fine, but first you have to give me a $30,000 cash deposit." He protested, stating he could buy the same boat for $20,000, to which I replied, "Great, to buy yourself one."

(He kept it up, forcing me to report the "harassment" to our commander. He received a formal reprimand because he outranked me and he was disrupting the mission.)

[my440]

Leeann wrote:
Looks like the same loose wire we have...on the left here:

Hi
Most interesting setup. Open the hood that gets supported by an iron rod. A dip stick and a place to add water a couple of horns and a place to set a battery. Appears the old washer fluid bag still hangs on the drivers side inner fender. Lots of room to add electrics. Pig iron tubular framing. A modern rv tech in their white coveralls would have no idea where to start. I really like your rig, best of luck. Only drawback tho is I like to watch my 440 running, or purring. That's usually the highlight when I take it out. I see no sight of your engine going by the photo.

[Griff_in_Fairba]

Ballenxj wrote:

Griff in Fairbanks wrote:

No, the two major internet service providers in Alaska are predominately Alaskan companies.

Hmm, OK. Thought I might have been on to something since my connection has been doing the same things lately. Connection reset, etc.

As someone who's spent a half century in-depth in the computers and communications industries, I can say it's symptoms of system-wide problems.

The Internet has, by an exponential order of magnitude, grown far beyond anybody's expectations. It's tremendous popularity and ubiquitous nature is straining everything from the backbone down to individual companies, universities, and government agencies.

In countries where the Internet is keeping pace with demand, doing so is the result of government backing and finance. Unfortunately, that's not true in North American in general and the United States in particular.

If you want to really give yourself a headache, try exploring and understanding who's responsible for the Internet, who's involve in maintaining it, and especially how it's funded. It makes even the most complex multinational corporations appear remarkably simple.

Nobody, including the most astute science fiction authors, could have envisioned it.

[jerem0621]

Griff in Fairbanks wrote:

toedtoes wrote:
If you have any percent signs in your post, rvnet will error out. Also the square brackets.

Yes, I often forget the differences between writing for publication and posting on discussion boards.

Going to take a break for now ... to bring my stress level down and get some things done that I need to do.

Just log into the forums through the good Sam forum portal and you should have no more problems.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[Ballenxj]

Griff in Fairbanks wrote:

No, the two major internet service providers in Alaska are predominately Alaskan companies.

Hmm, OK. Thought I might have been on to something since my connection has been doing the same things lately. Connection reset, etc.

[Griff_in_Fairba]

Ballenxj wrote:

Griff in Fairbanks wrote:

My Internet Service Provider (ISP) has clearly either underfunded their infrastructure, has oversold their services, is failing to pay enough to attract trained and experienced system/network administrators, or all of the above.

When cable (their main competitor) finally reaches out where we are, I'll switch so fast your head will spin.

The big V?

No, the two major internet service providers in Alaska are predominately Alaskan companies.

The companies that dominate the market in the lower 48 states are relatively minor players in the Alaska market. Even then, their coverage tends to be very limited, usually just the Anchorage urban area and maybe Fairbanks. (If their "coverage" extends beyond those limited areas, it because they've contract with the Alaska companies that have more complete coverage.)

To put it in lower 48 terms, they're like a company that only provides actual service to the Dallas/Fort Worth immediate area.

[Ballenxj]

Griff in Fairbanks wrote:

My Internet Service Provider (ISP) has clearly either underfunded their infrastructure, has oversold their services, is failing to pay enough to attract trained and experienced system/network administrators, or all of the above.

When cable (their main competitor) finally reaches out where we are, I'll switch so fast your head will spin.

The big V?