New to RV's and need some advice for winter....

[Malakie]

Hi,

I am new to RV's. Let me tell you first about what I am doing and have done then I will get to the actual question regarding winter RV stuff.. I bought a 1998 38' Four Winds WindSport used for $5000. When it was offered, the first question I asked was NOT what is broken rather I asked if anything actually worked! 🙂

Amazingly, the unit is in great shape. The only problems initially were the right rear jack was bent due to a driver not raising before moving and the genset not starting probably due to bad fuel after sitting for a few years. That is it for major issues so far.

Of course there have been normal issues, broken drawers, burned out bulbs, missing screws etc as well as caulking and sealing cracking and crumbling. We have spent about $1500 in the last two weeks working on all those little normal things and normal maintenance.

I have also designed and built a completely off grid power system for the unit as well based on solar and dual wind turbines. We produce about 1kw of power on a good day with both. I added 6 deep cell batteries to the unit and we can pretty much run indefinitely now as long as the wind and sun are available. Only things we cannot run for long are the AC units or microwave. With the system I can produce about 15 AMPS through the multiple inverters for about 6 hours if I am running everything at once... which is not normal of course. Of course we can always plug in for AC if need be but since winter is coming, not really an issue now.

We have been running a few lights, heat, frig, computers, TV and satellite and a few other small items now for two days and the system has remained at 100% until a little bit ago when it started to rain.. and there is no wind. Once the battery bank drops to 25%, the genset (using an backup portable right now due to the built in one needing carb cleaning from sitting so long) will automatically start and charge the batteries back up then the genset will power down until needed again.. (I am thinking about turning this into an actual product/Kit people can buy for camping, RV's, etc) All the RV'rs that have seen my setup really want it for their units so we shall see... My actual intent is/was to go completely off grid for my own reasons... I now realize what I put together is something a lot of people might like to use as well.

I have also added a splitter to the propane system that allows me to hook up two additional portable 100 gallon propane tanks. Between 2 electric ceramic heaters and the furnace I should be ok for heat during the winter depending.. I will be keeping the internal tank full as an emergency backup only when using the portable tanks during the winter. Running the electric ceramic heaters has caused the genset to run just a bit more over the last couples days (it has been abnormally cold here the last 3 days) but nothing extreme. The batteries seem to do pretty well with the system. I am seriously thinking about adding 6 more deep cells but have to figure out a couple things first... WHERE to put them and the weight distribution if I do.. But with 6 more, I pretty much can go off grid without any worries at all for long periods of time. BTW the system does feed into the main system to keep the RV batteries up as well as needed and all the switching features are fully functional and not altered in any way.

BTW, all light bulbs have been replaced with LED equivalent and the system draws an amazingly small amount of power compared to what it was now. I am updating and switching out anything like this that can make a difference. I am also going to change out the propane water heater with a 12 VDC on demand water heater system that can supply 3-4 gallons on the fly thus giving another savings of propane use.

I am also thinking about buying a small portable out door wood burner unit you see a lot of people installing for homes. They make small units too and it is very feasible to simply create a vent hook up from the burner into the mobile home for wood heat just like in a regular house. But I will look more into that later... What is cool is it can be mounted on a small trailer and you can pull it wherever you go..

Ok so to my question now that you know what I have done and am doing..

Due to my current situation I will be living in the RV for at least a few more months. Possibly into even January.

Where I need help is on winterizing this thing for winter living. I have already purchased and started installing heater tape for any exposed water pipes. I have a small ceramic block heater that will run on minimal setting to keep the temp above freezing in the back cargo area where the water tank and pump are located.

I need help and suggestions though on protecting the underside against snow, wind etc as well as the windows, which are worthless in keeping cold out. I did find some thick inserts for the ceiling vents but not for other vents like the stove fan, tank vents and so forth.

Any help on this would be appreciated because if we have a winter like last year, it will be a cold one with a lot of snow... And the more I can seal and winterize the less propane and power consumption I will need to have and worry about..

Thanks...

[pianotuna]

Hi,

My auxiliary 20 amp and 15 amp shore power cords feed into the RV via the shore power cord box. They go to "extra" female outlets that are rated for 20 amps. I could see no need for making more holes in the RV.

It is currently -9.9 c (14 f). The RV is at 21 C (70 f) and I'm using 2900 watts. Low tonight is forecast for -20 C (-4 f).

To see a list of how I heat have a look here: How I heat

Malakie wrote:
I did that for the small ceramic heater I put the fresh water tank and water inlet bay in the back.. It is set to 44 F on the thermo. There is another jack where I could run another line as you mentioned.. problem is getting in INSIDE the RV somehow..

[Malakie]

olfarmer wrote:
I know you love to be in Wisconsin but it would sure be easier to go south for the winter and return in the spring! I love Wisconsin too but I used to snowmobile up there and it is beautiful but very cold. You could probably get to Texas for $500 in gas which might be cheaper than your heat bill there. At ant rate, you said you did not want to cover your windows with plastic because you wanted to be able to see out if you wanted. Have you thought about the kind of plastic that adheres to the window frame and then you heat it with a hair dryer and it shrinks up tight? It is almost crystal clear just like glass. Wishing you the best of luck in what you do!!
P.S. It gets very cold here in Ia. too and is 18 here right now.

🙂 I have had more people suggest going south.. We CAME from the south to come home after my leaving the last military project I was in 8 weeks ago.. I have been wanting to come home for good since entering the U.S. Navy in 1980. Winter is not an issue. Just learning the ropes and making preparations are.

While it may be cheaper to go south, we just do not like it down there. We both love the seasons and the changes. With the work we have done, we are comfortable even in these temps for now. Should the temps get to the -20 below stuff, we may see some issues but I have a plan for that as well. For example we do have a backup generator on top of the built in genset and if need be, if the temps got to -20 below I will power that thing up and plug in however many electric heaters it can handle at once.

Since I use ceramic heaters for safety, if it comes to that I will even put one UNDER the RV to heat the sealed off space under us. The only thing I cannot control is the sewer pipe elbow IN the ground they have here freezing and not draining..

Hopefully things will not come to that. But I am planning just in case.

Right this moment at our current usage, we are looking at $60 or so on electric for a month ( if you read my other posts you know I built a solar/wind system to keep and upgraded 6 deep cell bank charged - which is helping a lot ), $150 for propane and $350 lot fees with all hookups.

Almost forgot.. your idea on the windows IS what we chose. Amazingly the shades already installed in this thing were actually doing a great job which surprised us. Only leakage was around edges and now with window seal added, the windows are much better. One place I forgot and just took care of, of all things, was under both the driver and passenger dash area... ie. firewall..

And as others have mentioned, YES we are taking into account ventilation. I set things so that we pull fresh air from the side that is not windward. If the winds shift, we can close that side and open the other. And to be safe we installed additional monitors for fire, carbon monoxide and so forth..

[Malakie]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

Does the power pedestal have 50, 30 and 20 amp outlets?

If it does add an auxiliary shore power cord to the 20 amp outlet.

If there is no 20 amp but there is a 50, then get a dog bone adapter that goes from 50 to 30 and a 2nd dog bone that goes from 30 to 20. Use that to add auxiliary shore power.

I did that for the small ceramic heater I put the fresh water tank and water inlet bay in the back.. It is set to 44 F on the thermo. There is another jack where I could run another line as you mentioned.. problem is getting in INSIDE the RV somehow..

[Malakie]

Deano56 wrote:
don't seal it up too tight or you will end up with another set of problems. You need some fresh air in that tight of an area. I don't know how you will keep that thing warm up there unless you build a roof and walls around it, then insulate it. You might find someone with a pole building or a barn for cover, at least it will keep the wind of you coach, you might have a chance then.Supposed to be another bad winter again, (maybe)

A few posts earlier I commented on current conditions. Right now 16 degrees F, windchill single digits and it is 70 in here and heat only runs about 4 times an hour. Water lines and tanks also doing ok at this point.. Been this way for few days now...

Other than things breaking like can happen in a regular house etc, with the work we did things seem to be going pretty good so far.

[olfarmer]

I know you love to be in Wisconsin but it would sure be easier to go south for the winter and return in the spring! I love Wisconsin too but I used to snowmobile up there and it is beautiful but very cold. You could probably get to Texas for $500 in gas which might be cheaper than your heat bill there. At ant rate, you said you did not want to cover your windows with plastic because you wanted to be able to see out if you wanted. Have you thought about the kind of plastic that adheres to the window frame and then you heat it with a hair dryer and it shrinks up tight? It is almost crystal clear just like glass. Wishing you the best of luck in what you do!!
P.S. It gets very cold here in Ia. too and is 18 here right now.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

There is often space to add another breaker. Just run some romex to a brand new outlet.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

Does the power pedestal have 50, 30 and 20 amp outlets?

If it does add an auxiliary shore power cord to the 20 amp outlet.

If there is no 20 amp but there is a 50, then get a dog bone adapter that goes from 50 to 30 and a 2nd dog bone that goes from 30 to 20. Use that to add auxiliary shore power.

[Deano56]

don't seal it up too tight or you will end up with another set of problems. You need some fresh air in that tight of an area. I don't know how you will keep that thing warm up there unless you build a roof and walls around it, then insulate it. You might find someone with a pole building or a barn for cover, at least it will keep the wind of you coach, you might have a chance then.Supposed to be another bad winter again, (maybe)

[Malakie]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

Do you have 30 amp shore power or 50 amp? If the latter you can heat 100% electrically. It may be cheaper than running the propane furnace.

We have 30 amp. I was hoping that might work but the other thing I learned is when they build these things they are idiots doing so. They tie ALL the electrical outlets into ONE 15amp breaker instead of doing like the right side on one and the left side on one etc.

So when I plug in two electric heaters, the breaker cannot take the load since we have TV, computer, and other little things running also.

I am going to see what it will take me to separate the power because if I can do so, I can run one unit on the outlets from one breaker and the other on another..

I have another issue that has just come up as well.. The unit has a built in carbon monoxide detector however I never trust just one thing so I also installed a battery backed up one up front as well. Both units are going off in the last few hours which means I have a problem obviously. I think I know what is happening.. the wind here in Wisconsin with this front is coming out of the north. The furnace and water heater exhaust is blowing directly INTO the wind. I am betting that what is happening is the exhaust is being blown right back into the RV.

Ironically I bought two metal exhaust flues, the kind used on the outside of a house for a clothes dryer, that I was going to use to cover those for another reason... I had noticed the water heater would constantly be turning on when the wind was from the northwest and north previous.. I figure putting these flues on would keep the wind from being blown directly into the exhaust ports... I am going to have to at least temporarily mount them tonight now because of this other issue.. I am hoping they will re-direct the wind enough to keep it from blowing the exhaust right back into the RV setting of the detectors...

I am open to other suggestions on this one too... It is 26 degrees F right now with 16 mph wind so a windchill of 19 or so. If someone else has another idea, let me know!

[Malakie]

Kidoo wrote:
You could get an infrared temp detector so see where your colder areas are in the RV, then work on it.

You just gave me the light bulb moment! I own a FLIR (forward looking infrared) unit! Bet that would work just as well..

Gonna try that out now!

[pianotuna]

Hi,

Do you have 30 amp shore power or 50 amp? If the latter you can heat 100% electrically. It may be cheaper than running the propane furnace.

[Malakie]

gfs1943 wrote:
You've put a lot of effort into this, and I hope your investment pays off for you. If I were trying to do the same thing, I would get a bit of land in the woods and build a log cabin. Much more permanent, and much easier to keep warm. I'd do it in Arkansas, where I grew up. Not nearly as cold as Wisconsin.

I did not realize I did not write about WHY we are doing this!

Basically, I am just retiring from military duties and also as a sworn deputy sheriff. I started serving, United States Navy Active duty in 1980. Eight (8) Weeks ago due to numerous injuries I was 100% retired due to those. Not something that I voluntarily wanted but I was not the one that made the decision. I was actually due to retire 03 SEPT 2011 but got a reprieve and spent the last 2 years at a Kansas missile base putting together a combat tactical team, weapons systems, armories and so forth. That project I completed and thus the decision came to pass that retirement was next even though I am only 50. Everyone treats me like I am going to break if I do anything because of the issues I do have.. but I have to go along with what the V.A. docs say.

Anyhow, it is not like you get months in advance notice. Nope we had 2 weeks. My wife and I had already known eventually we were coming home, back to Wisconsin once I did retire. So she immediately came here to look for a place. What we did not expect though was how hard it is to find a rural home for rent. I cannot and will not live in a city or town for reasons that I would rather not talk about. Additionally my other partner is a combat trained German Shepherd named Mia and the few places she did find would not allow us to have her there.

We were down to 4 days with no place to live so I came up here for 2 of them to help. We started thinking of other options when the idea of buying used decent sized camper came to us. Since we cannot afford anything on the very limited disability retirement I now rely on, we knew it would probably be a 20'-25' used fixer upper that we would most like end up in. We figured at least it would be a roof over our heads though and we could save the rent costs etc to eventually get something else... maybe even buy a small bit of land and home someday.

So the two days I came home we started looking around for something we could not only at least tolerate but afford... which was not much. I know God was walking with us though because we stopped at one dealer to see what used units they had and not minutes into stopping there were offered a deal that I still cannot believe. The dealer that morning had just taken this unit in trade, not hours before we came in. They had only done a full inspection on the unit having just completed that before we arrived. After hearing about who we were and what we needed and so on, they offered the unit to us.

Basically we were offered a Four Winds Windsport 38' Class A RV for $5000 as is. My first question was not 'what is broken'. No, my first question was, 'ok what works?'. As it turns out, everything except for three relatively minor things... The right rear hydraulic jack is broken.. No biggie, I use a manual jack there now since I cannot afford to replace it. The front engine auto dash AC is not working.. no biggie, not planning on driving it until next year. And finally the Genset would not run... Biggie but hopefully I can figure something out. (we bought a portable generator for $250 that even had the 30 AMP socket built in).

I asked them what it would cost for them to fix those things and do other needed maintenance and small repairs and they said if we waited the price would be $25,000 easy. This was a one time offer.. take it then for $5000 or wait. We gave them the money.. pretty much everything we had.

Everything works! We have had little things here and there to fix and the previous owners did not do maintenance worth a damn but in a few weeks I had pretty much handled all that and more. It turns out the Genset in this is an Onan 5500 D model. Apparently it was designed and built for the U.S. Military and some of this model RV ended up getting the surplus builds installed that were not shipped to the military. It is full MilSpec. The guy that looked at it for us said this model is actually worth as much if not a bit more than what we paid for the entire RV!. He also walked me through pulling the fuel jet from the bowl, cleaning it and then how to properly use the right number of turns. It took us a whole 3 minutes. He then had me hit the button and boom the genset took right off! Nothing wrong with it at all. The tech said based on what he could see this thing would far outlast the RV itself. It has self cleaning brushes and some other things built into the military model because they needed pretty much maintenance free units. And the brushes and other things that normally have issues are a heavier duty for that reason. We got lucky in that regard apparently.

Anyhow, the next step we knew was to find a place to park and to figure out how to get ready for winter. I have had to learn from scratch having never lived in a camper before. But very quickly I also realized where some of my military training and experience could have a major impact since I have been trained extensively on survival including arctic conditions. And one of the first things I started on was the power system and also inspecting the unit to figure out where and how to better insulate against not just cold but wind which is more important than cold.

Originally, after we got this we really wanted to buy a small bit of land.. maybe 20 acres of nice wooded land to call our own. We figured we could park there for now and in time save up enough to build us a small home. It is not as easy as that though.. I just do not get enough from my military disability retirement and although my wife has started part time work, she gets enough to keep us fed and fuel in the car and truck, not much more. We may end up canceling the internet as well to cut cost but have not decided on that yet.

As for costs doing this and fixing up things. We have spent $1800 total in work on this RV getting ready for winter. We added a quick release external propane tank. Bought water and heat tape units. Added insulation where feasible and did some other things. And of course I spent a bit on two additional deep cell batteries, the solar panels and wind turbines and hookup. We pretty much used the last of what we had saved in the bank to do this. Thankfully the investment made for the power system is paying off in a huge way.

This past 30 days costs have been: $137 for propane. $67 for electric (running the furnace, two electric heaters and all the heat tapes) and $400 for the lot fee which includes winter water and sewer hookup. Of course on top of that we have food, gas for the car and truck and other living costs.

From what we figure, we are spending about $300 less at the least than we would living in an apartment and $500 at least if we were in a rural house using propane for heat.

The one thing we are worried about though is that now we are in here, how do we get out.. I.E. find the means to buy a small amount of land and have our own home to retire to.. I am amazed at how many people think we Veterans are getting more than they realize.. sure we get medical too but as you see in the news, it ain't all that... for sure when it comes to the V.A. I can tell you though, I sure do now know why there are so many Veterans on the streets...

We are doing ok but it is tight... I am worried about what happens if the furnace dies etc.. that would be a huge problem..

Anyhow, that is the story of how we ended up doing this and why..

[Kidoo]

You could get an infrared temp detector so see where your colder areas are in the RV, then work on it.

[Malakie]

Tvov wrote:
Is your RV vented somehow? I know you need to insulate, but fresh air is also needed.

Interesting thread to read, by the way!

Yep someone else asked that as well. I have taken into account ventilation. Plus, call me nuts, but sometimes I like to open a window just a bit for cool crisp air without causing all the heat to escape. But yes, ventilation has been kept for sure.