no more e450's

[snellville-dave]

When Ford stops making the E450 cutaway, what will rv mfgs use to build class C motorhomes. It looks like Bornfree has started making some units on the F series truck from Ford. Any other ideas? Dave

[gerrym51]

ford has said e-450 rv chassis will be built in same plant as f53 rv chassis. it's not going away

the e vans are going away

[RobertRyan]

snellville-dave wrote:
How about skipping the Chey talk I started this about the Ford E450 with the idea that someone would have ideas about the new Ford Transit. I wouldn't have anything from Gov't Motors. That said if you like GM talk to my wife who drives a Cadillac SRX. Dave

Generally the Transit Cab Chassis is lighter than the Mercedes Cab Chassis but you can build Motorhomes like this on it.

[mlts22]

GM has one thing against them -- chassis types have moved to a new generation, starting with the T1N Sprinter. If people compare a rig on the 4500 chassis to a Transit, Sprinter, or even a ProMaster, they will see that its MPG will be in the 6-10 range while the competition is in the mid to upper teens.

The low MPG is understandable with the Fords because of their lifetime and the fact that the Transits/Sprinters/ProMasters would not support a 30+ foot vehicle. However, Chevy seems to be entering a market that would have been great in '05, but these days where people are very concerned about gas prices, they are behind the times for everything but the longer rigs which can't be built on the Euro-van chassis types.

[snellville-dave]

How about skipping the Chey talk I started this about the Ford E450 with the idea that someone would have ideas about the new Ford Transit. I wouldn't have anything from Gov't Motors. That said if you like GM talk to my wife who drives a Cadillac SRX. Dave

[carringb]

All Chevy truck motors are Pushrod, including the 6.0.

The temp gauge in the V10 is real, but like all newer cars it is buffered so there is a temp range where the gauge won't fluctuate. But the actual temp does't fluctuate much anyways. Mine ranges from 190F to 205F towing, and under extreme conditions (westbound out of Death Valley, 15,000 pounds in tow, 107F outside) if may touch 222F for a brief period.

[ericsmith32]

Can't comment on the overhead cam but everything I've read says otherwise. VVT is just valve timing and pretty much all engine have that capability now days. I don't have to prove anything on the Ford gauges why don't you prove otherwise. I've driven many of Ford's over the years and never the seen the temp gauge regardless of slammed to the floor climbing a mountain or cruising at a steady 55. I can make the temp gauge change on the only Chevy in our fleet based on the same circumstances. Never gets close to overheating so not sure why it even matters. Buy a ScanGuage and bet you'll see temps fluctuate more than you think.

[pnichols]

Well ... so far I've gotten two (2) 180 degrees out answers to my number 1) Chevy V8 challenge question: "Are Chevy cutaway van V8s overhead cam?"

- ericsmith32 answered yes in red letters.

- adayik answered no in black letters ... but I don't know if this was adayik's personal answer or not, as it looked like adayik was quoting someone else's earlier "no" answer that I couldn't find earlier in this discussion.

So ... what is it guys ... are Chevy cutaway van V8 engine valves overhead cam actuated or pushrod actuated?

If the Chevy cutaway van V8 is indeed a pushrod engine, then I stand by my position stated earlier that this is at least one "dinosaur portion" of their V8's design that the Ford V10's design has done away with.

I find it amazing that many people here think the Ford cooling system's heat gauge is a "fake gauge" ... prove it, and post the proof data.

My V8 Dodge PU truck's heat gauge was "real" and it indicated over-heating way too often. My V8 Ford PU truck's heat gauge was "real I guess" but rarely moved because I found it very hard to ever push it's old long-throw 390 engine hard enough to tell. My V8 Dodge 3/4 ton van's heat gauge was "real all right" and it moved way too much - indicating overheating at the drop of a hat even though I ordered the van new with a heavy duty cooling system. My V8 4X4 GMC PU truck's heat gauge is "real all right" too and it moves way too much, especially offroad way out in the outback where it's real scary to have a heat guage read too hot due to inadequate design margins in the vehicle's cooling system(s).

The only V8 heat gauge I've ever owned that is both "real I think" and hardly budges even when idling in scorching heat - because they engineered the cooling system(s) right - is the one in my DW's Lexus sedan. The Lexus's cooling system appears to act just about identical to the one in our RV's Ford E450 V10. It appears that the RV V10 Ford and sedan V8 Lexus heat gauges are either both fake ... or the transmission and engine cooling systems in both vehicles were engineered with generous enough heat dissipation margins. 😉

[carringb]

pnichols wrote:

That reminds me ... I read once that Ford might have very briefly a long time ago test marketed a few E550 vans. I seem to recall that they may have had leaf spring front suspensions on them ... which would have meant no Twin I-Beam suspension on that E550. If I'm correct, I wonder what ever became of it?

Yes, Ford made it for the 2003 MY. However, shortly after Ford came out with it, GM decided to offer a 4500 and 5500 series topkick, and undercut the E550 by about $5,000. That sealed the fate for the E550. Thing is.... GM was losing money off every single Topkick 4500/5500 made, and that's why they finally shut the line. It took the bankruptcy for them to realize there is not benefit in capturing market share if it isn't making them money.

[adayjk]

pnichols wrote:
Here's a few reasons why I consider the Ford E-Series V10 to be a superb motorhome power plant:

1) Are Chevy cutaway van V8s overhead cam?

No. But they are dual VVT without the 4 foot long timing chain.

2) Does the Chevy cutaway van V8 idle for long periods with no noise and no floor vibration like the Ford cutaway van V10 does?

Yes.

3) Is the Chevy cutaway van V8 linked to a 6-speed transmission like the Ford cutaway van V10 is?

Yes. And the 6L90E has very effective engine braking modes in tow haul mode.

4) Does the Chevy cutaway van V8 pull motorhomes up long grades in Death Valley heat with the cab air conditioning on full blast and not move the water temperature gauge like the Ford cutaway van V10 does?

Yes, it makes a little more HP than the V10. At higher RPM, such as a 3rd gear pull at highway speeds it will put more power to the road all things equal.

5) Does the Chevy cutaway van V8 idle for long periods in parking lots in 105 degree heat with the cab air conditioning on full blast and not move the water temperature gauge like the Ford cutaway van V10 does?

Yes, it uses a huge PCM/ECM controlled variable speed cooling fan. The coolant gauge points smack dab in the middle now just like Ford tricked their gauges to do years ago.

To be honest I am a Ford guy. I've personally bought 14 new vehicles in the last 20 years (and only one GM). But the information here about the differences in the Ford and Chevy chassis is just off the mark. GM has bought a nice RV cutaway product to the market since the end of the Kodiac and Topkick lines. The 3500 is frankly a little light on the GVWR and GCVWR for anything but the smallest class C, but so is a Ford E350. The 4500 has a proven gas engine (6.0l) and a proven 6 speed transmission (6L90E).

I'll make a better list if you really want to show how a Ford is better:

1. GM still insists on using some form of Dexcool coolant. I've been burned by the stuff, and I'd love to fill it with something better (like Ford's coolant). However, this will give the dealer an excuse to blame my coolant choice on any cooling system related failures for the 100,000 mile warranty.

2. GM cutaways cannot be equipped from the factory with a rotating seat base. The one in the newer Ford's is nice.

3. GM's YF1 RV package does not have keyless entry or full 7 way trailer wiring. Most (All?) 7 way connectors on RV dealer lots only have "4 way" capability from the factory.

4. Finally, GM has a lot less history with this platform (Express van) in an RV cutaway. This is even more true if you consider that the 4500 is new.

[pnichols]

carringb wrote:
Ford has already registered the T450/T550 names, and I've read prior speculation that Ford may stick a van cab on the F53 chassis, which makes sense since the F53 is moving into the E-series plant in Ohio.

That reminds me ... I read once that Ford might have very briefly a long time ago test marketed a few E550 vans. I seem to recall that they may have had leaf spring front suspensions on them ... which would have meant no Twin I-Beam suspension on that E550. If I'm correct, I wonder what ever became of it?

[carringb]

Last I read was the E450 will continue through 2019 model year.

When the E450 does finally end, it does not mean we lose that capacity cutaway. Ford has already registered the T450/T550 names, and I've read prior speculation that Ford may stick a van cab on the F53 chassis, which makes sense since the F53 is moving into the E-series plant in Ohio.

[napadan]

I emailed Lazy Daze last week, inquiring about the E450's imminent demise. They wrote me back saying that the E450 would be around for a few more years. I, too, am concerned about losing the 14,500# gvwr.

[pnichols]

rjstractor wrote:
Supposedly the Chevy beats the Ford in a drag race and a hill climb, according to a video that is on the Chevy website. Something that video does not explain is why Ford has a significantly higher towing capacity.

Maybe that is because the Ford differential and/or overall gearing is kindof optimized to tow loads not win drag races.

BTW rjstracter, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one noticing the smoothness and lack of chassis vibration coming from the Ford V10. My GMC truck's 350 V8 comes nowhere near as close ... I've noticed that our traveling companions' Ford 460 V8 powered Class C motorhome doesn't come close either. Of course if you don't believe in idling the big engine much it doesn't matter if you're using a V8 ... but we do idle the V10 ... just like is done with many V10 powered ambulances and paramedic units.

[rjstractor]

This is one of those age old debates that has been hashed over here. I own both an E450 motorhome AND a 6.0 powered Chevy pickup and love them both, so I can offer a somewhat unbiased opinion on both, although they are different vintages and applications.

Noise and vibration- The V10 is certainly smoother and quieter at idle. The 6.0 has a certain V8 rumble and lope, not unpleasant but definitely there.

OHC vs pushrod- who really cares? I'm not going to tear either engine apart, so it doesn't matter to me whether it's pushrods or fairies with magic dust that open the valves.

GM makes a 4500 series cutaway with similar weight capacities as Ford, so that's not an issue. Supposedly the Chevy beats the Ford in a drag race and a hill climb, according to a video that is on the Chevy website. Something that video does not explain is why Ford has a significantly higher towing capacity. In fact, I can't find out anywhere what the GM GCWR is. My truck's is 16,000 and the motorhome is 20,500, although the motorhome has better gearing. Loaded to about the same weight, the Ford launches better on steep hills, getting going easily where the Chevy really grunts. However, my truck will pull a 6% grade loaded to 14K faster than the motorhome by about 5 mph.

My verdict? They are both good, drive both, and remember that you will likely spend much more time living in the coach part of the motorhome than you will driving it.