Palazzo Not Charging from Engine Alternator

[JamesWillard]

Just picked up my 2013 Thor Palazzo from LazyDays last week. All the way home and since, the Control Panel CHARGER will not turn on with engine running. Normal with Shore Power and Generator. Use/Store switch is good. Replaced the BIRD and Trombetta - No help. Noticed that the Trombetta is ALWAYS energized. When I disconnect the "RELAY" wire at the BIRD, the Trombetta de-energizes. Control Panel CHARGE will never come on with Engine Alternator, no matter the status of the Trombetta Contactor. With the BIRD out of the circuit, the Aux Start switch energizes the Trombetta normally. Still no CHARGE at the control panel with engine running. Chassis batteries charge normally.

Help!!

[Sam_Spade]

JamesWillard wrote:
Thanks Mr. Wizard,

I drove home from LazyDays 5 hours and the coach batteries were down to 9.3 Volts.

Voltage on both sides of the Trombetta contactor was the same - approx 13.4 volts. That would indicate that both battery banks are charging.

The two statements above conflict with each other.

IF.....the battery bank is reading 9.3 then they obviously are NOT being charged......or they are dropping off IMMEDIATELY upon removal of the charging voltage.

Details are important.
If you are trying to chase a problem of not charging when the engine is running......ALL of the initial measurements must be done with the engine running. If you don't do that, you are just confusing the issue.

It is possible that the system is TRYING to charge the batteries but they are so sick that they won't take a charge at all.

[camperguy99]

I also had the Trombetta problem. The contacts were coated with a black carbon like substance that I thought was the plastic case material migrating to the contacts. My conclusion was too much heat. The 12V Trombetta has more than 20 watts coil power and almost too hot to touch. I found a White Rodgers 15V coil unit with 200 amp silver contacts but about 8 watts coil dissipation. About same price as the trombetta. White Rodgers recommends using it for this application. So after more than two years still working perfect. Google White Rodgers 200 amp solenoid to find the part number. By the way I was able to clean the non working Trombetta contacts and it worked! Now a hopefully never needed spare.

[tropical36]

JamesWillard wrote:
Voltage on both sides of the Trombetta contactor was the same - approx 13.4 volts. That would indicate that both battery banks are charging.

With the contactor closed, the voltage would read the same on both sides, as well.
Take a good look around the battery bank for a wire that's not connected.

[MrWizard]

interior control panel ?

do you mean the 'test lights' that show battery condition, lp level, etc..

or do you mean inverter/converter control

the chg light on the inverter control only works when you have shore power or generator, it works it shows what the inverter/combo charger is doing with the 120v input

take a meter AND measure the batteries with the engine running
and then with the generator running

it was in the shop, there maybe a missing connection, a dropped wire that did not get connected back on to the house batteries

[JamesWillard]

Thanks Mr. Wizard,

I drove home from LazyDays 5 hours and the coach batteries were down to 9.3 Volts. (it was in the shop 4 months for slide problems). Chassis batteries remained good. The CHG function on the interior control panel will not come ON. I replaced the BIRD and Trombetta - no help. Voltage on both sides of the Trombetta contactor was the same - approx 13.4 volts. That would indicate that both battery banks are charging. However the CHG function still will not come on with the Engine Alternator running.

[MrWizard]

Yes take it in
But i have questions
With engine running, what is the voltage at the relay, both sides
What is the voltage at the house batteries
Why do you say they are not charging

[JamesWillard]

Thanks! Merry Christmas!

[kdk]

Just for your info Trombetta makes a replacement relay for the one used by the Rv manufacturer that has silver contacts to reduce arcing. Replaced mine with one and no more problems in 10 years.
Blessings and Merry Christmas; Keith

[Sam_Spade]

JamesWillard wrote:
With it energized, the Coach Batteries are still not charging. That's not even possible .

Of course it is possible......if the contacts on the relay are burnt and not making good contact anymore.

[JamesWillard]

Thanks so much Scott. I really appreciate all the time and thought to reply. Sorry for not being more thorough with my explanation - I replaced the Trombetta and the BIRD controller. The voltage was the same on both sides of the Trombetta in both cases. The Palazzo is still under extended warranty, so I now think I should let the experts take a look.

[FIRE_UP]

rgatijnet1 wrote:

JamesWillard wrote:
Thanks very much. I went through the BIRD and Trombetta troubleshooting. I found that the Trombetta Solenoid is ALWAYS energized. Disconnected the "Relay" wire at the BIRD and it de-energizes. With it energized, the Coach Batteries are still not charging. That's not even possible since the Chassis batteries are charging normally. However, the Coach batteries charge normally on GEN or Shore Power. I've been checking wiring and found nothing loose. Have not really gotten started checking fuses . . .

Have you tried jumper wires around the solenoid to see if it is functioning as designed? Just because it is energizing does not mean that all of the contacts are operating properly.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!
There's many, many documented cases on here and IRV2 concerning that Trombetta engaging but, NOT CONDUCTING anything. Mine was like that TWICE. The contacts get arc'd up and, have a sort of carbon on them and, even though the mechanics of the solenoid are working as designed, the ability to conduct electricity is hampered by that carbon buildup. You'd need to check it with a volt ohm meter when the engine is running, to see what kind of voltage is at one side, then do the other side to see if it compares.
Scott

[rgatijnet1]

JamesWillard wrote:
Thanks very much. I went through the BIRD and Trombetta troubleshooting. I found that the Trombetta Solenoid is ALWAYS energized. Disconnected the "Relay" wire at the BIRD and it de-energizes. With it energized, the Coach Batteries are still not charging. That's not even possible since the Chassis batteries are charging normally. However, the Coach batteries charge normally on GEN or Shore Power. I've been checking wiring and found nothing loose. Have not really gotten started checking fuses . . .

Have you tried jumper wires around the solenoid to see if it is functioning as designed? Just because it is energizing does not mean that all of the contacts are operating properly.

[JamesWillard]

Thanks very much. I went through the BIRD and Trombetta troubleshooting. I found that the Trombetta Solenoid is ALWAYS energized. Disconnected the "Relay" wire at the BIRD and it de-energizes. With it energized, the Coach Batteries are still not charging. That's not even possible since the Chassis batteries are charging normally. However, the Coach batteries charge normally on GEN or Shore Power. I've been checking wiring and found nothing loose. Have not really gotten started checking fuses . . .

[FIRE_UP]

JamesWillard wrote:
The control panel inside the Thor Palazzo has a CHG function that indicates Charging Status, whether Shore Power or Generator or while Driving (engine alternator). It normally indicates (while driving) "Bulk Charging xx.x Volts" or Absorb Charging, etc). Now, however, the CHG feature will not operate with the Engine Alternator . . . and the battery voltage just keeps dropping.

James,
Those terms "bulk" and "absorb" in charging, refer to 120V Inverter/charger steps in charging, not charging from the engines alternator, as has been previously brought up. I'm not saying you don't have any issues, it's quite possibly you do but, it's imperative that you make sure you know what's in play, when your engines alternator is doing its job and, when your Inverter/Charger is doing its job.

Our coach is an '04 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the C-7 330HP CAT and, does have a Trombetta solenoid that controls both battery boost function and, charging of the house batteries when driving down the road. We have NO BIRD system to augment that Trombetta. So, just for grins, if you have a trusty volt ohm meter, I'd break it out and, do some preliminary checks at your batteries, both house and chassis, with and without the engine running and, with and without being hooked up to shore power. Note all the results and, compare after each set of readings.

That will tell you EXACTLY what's getting to the batteries with and without the engine running and, with and without shore power. Then you can determine if you've got an issue with any one particular part or component.
Scott